Need update on carrying (transporting) through DC

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bbockmon said:
I should clarify, I got free tickets from Denver to National. That's why I'm not flying into Philly or Baltimore (or Dulles) instead. Sister also wants to visit DC before I return, so it works out.
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It only works out if you make a day trip into DC and leave the gun(s) in Delaware. As others have noted, the FOPA applies ONLY to transiting through an unfriendly state (or city, in the case of DC). Once you go into DC, park the rental unit and get out to start site-seeing, you are no longer in transit through DC ... you are now IN DC and not protected by the FOPA.

Also, given the title of your original post, please remember the conditions of FOPA: the firearm(s) must be unloaded and stored in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle has no trunk, the firearm(s) must be transported unloaded, in a locked container designed for the transport of firearms, and nor readily accessible to the driver.

You cannot "carry" through DC and Maryland.
 
Isn't DC treated the same as a state for the purposes of the GCA of 1968 (and the FOPA was added to it)? That's why DC residents can't buy handguns there yet...
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You are 100% correct to my mind.Like it or not the District of Columbia is still part of the Republic.
Certainly the SCOTUS 2A decision of June 26th confirms this.
And to the OP, Aquila Blanca is dead on.Leave those firearms in Delaware if you do that sightseeing tour.That would not be considered part of a through journey under FOPA with those firearms in your vehicle.
Heed his wise advice.
 
Well, it sounds like the little family tourism stop may mess everything up since I can't park for very long while transporting firearms. Where would I even begin to find out the official definitions for transporting through these areas? I had previously assumed that even a hotel stop could be included in the "transporting through" situations in these statutes.
 
OK, here's the deal...

FOPA notwithstanding, it's too much trouble to go through DC with modern pistols. MD is fine, IF the gun is unloaded and in the trunk. There is effectively no CCW in Maryland. You're OK to possess, though.
 
Well, it sounds like the little family tourism stop may mess everything up since I can't park for very long while transporting firearms. Where would I even begin to find out the official definitions for transporting through these areas? I had previously assumed that even a hotel stop could be included in the "transporting through" situations in these statutes.
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FOPA,1986 was written on a very bad hair day in my opinion and has way too many gray areas to suit most of us.
But it is generally agreed that in unfriendly territory such as New Jersey,Maryland and the District,an overnight stop invalidates your protection under the Statute.Here you truly could become the now cliche "test case".
So my question to other forum members is this:Is it possible on the way back from Delaware the OP could leave his firearms at a gun shop or pawn shop in Virginia near Reagan Airport,do the sightseeing sans guns and then pick them up on the way back to Reagan from D.C.A few bucks to the shop for a day or two's storage.
Would this be legal?Any ideas on this possibility?
 
Just a couple of points here:
(1) The Wilson Bridge does not enter the District of Columbia at any point. The OLD Wilson bridge had a triangular area right off the Virginia shore at Jones Point that was in the District, but the new bridge was built about 300 yards south of the old span, and doesn't enter the District at all.
(2) FOPA will not cover you if you make an overnight stop in the district... or. for that matter, make any stop other than a quick one for gas. If you park your car and go sightseeing, or go to dinner, you're up the creek. FOPA doesn't cover you in those situations.
(3) If you're coming back from Delaware and want to see some sights in DC, get a hotel room in Virginia. We're a VERY gun-friendly state.
(4) You can't leave your guns at a dealer or pawnshop while you're sightseeing. The FFL holder would have to log the guns into his bound book. Once he did that, you would have to go the 4473 route to get them back, and if you're not a VA resident, the dealer couldn't transfer any pistols to you.
(5) Your best route to Delaware from Reagan Airport is to take the George Washington Parkway (which runs right in front of the airport) south, through Alexandria, to Interstate 95, then take 95 north. If you're going to the Wilmington area, stay on 95 all the way to Delaware. If you're going to the southern part of the state, take route 50 east from 95, and it will take you across the bay bridge, and you're almost there.
 
I'm not so sure FOPA doesn't protect you when you stop overnight in all circumstances. For example, a person walking (for example, people who hike the App. Trail) is also traveling but obviously at a slower pace, necessitating stops with the unloaded/cased gun(s). That argument wouldn't work in a car in a place as small as DC though.
 
Thank you all very much for these clarifications! Your advice is greatly appreciated and I will heed it.

I still haven't found a limitation on transportation time; it wasn't in the definition section (§ 921), but I'll accept the popular opinion. :banghead:

So, what about pepper spray in DC?... :cool:
 
DC SIghts en route Home from DE

1. Coming back from DE, lock your firearms (unloaded) in the trunk.

2. Take I-95/I-495, Capital Beltway, around the east side of DC (entirely in MD).

3. Cross the Woodrow Wilson Bridge into VA, into Alexandria. (Ignore the 1/2 mile in the middle of the bridge that may or may not be "in DC").

4. Exit I-95 at Telegraph Road South, which is the second exit in VA after the bridge.

5. Turn left at the traffic light at Huntingdon Ave.

6. Drive 1/2 mile east on Huntingdon Ave, and turn right into the Huntingdon Avenue Metro station.

7. Park and lock your car in the parking garage.

8. At the Metro entrance, ask for help in getting a (cardboard) Metro card for each person in your group (no sharing allowed) except the driver. For the driver get a (plastic) Metro Smartcard. (Different dispensing machine than the others.) You will have to have the Smartcard to pay for parking when you leave - no attendants or cash at the parking exit.
The Metro attendant can advise you on how much money to put on each card. Be sure to add the parking fee into the amount on the Smartcard.

9. Take the Metro train (Yellow Line) into DC. The train is above ground as it crosses the Potomac River. Enjoy the view of the Jefferson Memorial, airplanes flying into National Airprt, and the Washington Monument and Kennedy Center off in the distance.
(Do not bother with changing to the Blue Line to ride to Smithsonian Station. That only wastes a lot time riding on the subway instead of sightseeing.. The walk from L'Enfant Plaza is not bad.)

10. Get off at L'enfant Plaza station, first station in DC after crossing the Potomac. Ask for directions to walk to the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum or the National Museum of the American Indian. They are both on the National Mall, where you will be in the midst of the Smithsonian, The National Gallery of Art, the Hirschhorn Art museum, the Capital at one end and the Washington Monument at the other. See as many sights on the Mall as you have time and interest. Don't try to get to them all in one day - you can't.

(Tip - if you want to have a meal at one of the museums on the Mall, eat in the cafeteria at the Museum of teh American Indian. It is the only good museum eatery there, but it is also an outstanding food place., well worth it.)

11. Retrace your steps to L'Enfant Plaze and catch the Yellow Line back to Huntingdon (the end of the line, so you will not miss your stop.)

12. Retrieve yoru car, pay for parking with your Smartcard, and be on your way in VA!

Enjoy your visit!

To help prepare for riding the Metro, check
http://www.wmata.com/


How do I know all this? I live three miles from Huntingdon Metro Station.

Craig_VA
 
Duke Junior said:
But it is generally agreed that in unfriendly territory such as New Jersey,Maryland and the District,an overnight stop invalidates your protection under the Statute.Here you truly could become the now cliche "test case".
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No, it is not generally agreed that an overnight stop invalidates the FOPA. The operative phrase in the FOPA is "in the normal course of travel." If you're driving cross-country and find yourself in the middle of Kansas at 21:00 hours, getting off the next exit and crashing for the night at an interchange zone Econo-Lodge is "in the normal course of travel." If you get off the same exit at noon and meander 40 miles north to say hello to Great Aunt Sally -- then Kansas becomes a destination and FOPA rules apply only to the extent you are legal in Kansas as well as where you began.

Remember the fairly recent case of the man who was arrested at Newark Airport. His situation was that he missed a connection and had to spend a night in a hotel at the airport, and he had to claim his luggage. He was arrested when he attempted to re-check his firearm the next morning. When it came to trial, the judge dismissed the charge because spending a night in an airport hotel due to a missed connection was in the normal course of travel.

Nonetheless, sightseeing IN Washington is not transiting through Washington. Time limits do not enter into it. The purpose(s) of the stop is/are the determining factor. The suggestion to spend the night just across the river in much friendlier Virginia is an excellent suggestion.
 
Now we're getting somewhere!! I feel satisfactorily informed on all subjects after those last bits. Thanks to all!!
 
For those who don't know what the heck I'm talking about:
http://volokh.com/posts/1141080752.shtml
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Aquila Blanca,I hope you didn't misinterpret my last post.
After you brought up the New Jersey case my memory was jogged and that was a good outcome for Mr.Revell and he got a,eventually,a judgement in NJ and a correct decision.He did spend 5 days in jail.
And I agree with you and that is the way FOPA should be understood.But without going off on any disagreeable tangent, is it truly the way most LE and of course judges generally view FOPA.Lets look at the wording:

'18 USC 926 - Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Permanent Link: http://vlex.com/vid/19190852

Text:
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.'

Now,perhaps this cite is missing some content,but where is the operative phrase "in the normal course of travel" you were referring to?Is this cite incomplete in regards to 18 USC 926A?
If it is can we find the Statute with that important clause?
Now the reason I firmly believe that should be the correct understanding is in this hypothetical situation:
Joe Traveler leaves Ft.Wayne,Ind.,destination Concord,NH.,legal on both ends per FOPA.Around midnight,exhausted,Joe finds himself in the middle of NYS near Syracuse,his pistol securely locked in the trunk per FOPA rules.This is the most hideous state in the country when it comes to handguns,specially non NYS residents.
Joe pulls of the Thruway,finds a Motel Eight and crashes for the night.Why should he endanger his life and others to get to Vermont simply because he's got a firearm in the trunk?
999 times out of 1000 that Joe gets up in the morning and peacefully proceeds to NH.The one other time by bad luck his gun is discovered. Being in NY,Joe is arrested and appears before a judge.If he's lucky he gets the type judge Mr Revell eventually got and he's quickly on his way to NH.Unlucky, my guess being in NYS he rots in jail for days or weeks,gets bail hopefully and comes to trial.And unlike Mr.Revell maybe his case is not thrown out.
Did the Jersey case in 2005 set a hopeful precedent for ALL STATES?Or was it just an anomaly and travelers still have to continue to worry about what 'through travel' means in regard to FOPA 1986 throughout the USA.This is important for all travelers,obviously.And I have to travel every month.
Any thoughts or opinions?And please be kind!:D
 
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I am trying to find out if Mr. Revell's lawsuit against the Port Authority and the arresting officer has been settled. That's what will send a message to all the states ... if the Port Authority is whacked for $3 million. So far all I have found is some preliminary motions a few months after he filed the suit. I don't think it has come to trial yet, unfortunately.
 
This may be of interest. Caution: It's lengthy.
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That was quite a read!:)
This seems to be the most pertinent information:

Nature of the Transportation

The shift from transportation "in interstate commerce" to transportation from one "place" to another512 raises an initial question of whether intrastate trips through a locality with restrictive firearms laws might be covered. There is no explanation of the deletion of "in interstate commerce" in S. 2414's legislative history. On the more general question of whether it was intended to reach intrastate trips, the legislative history implies, but not unequivocally, that interstate trips remain the target. One Representative, for instance, mentioned that both FOPA and S. 2414 cover trips "in interstate commerce,"513 but received a response that travelers are protected "after they leave the boundaries of their state or local jurisdiction."514 The responding Representative then, only a few moments later, described S. 2414 as a protection "for interstate travelers."515 Conversely, even with its restriction to travels in interstate commerce, it had been suggested that FOPA would reach travel within a state.516 The better reading would probably be to restrict the coverage of this section to interstate commerce, particularly in light of the preamble's failure to make findings that protection of intrastate trips was necessary to a valid federal objective.517
 
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