Need your help again Tuner...hammer follow

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Magnumite:
Not sure of the responses I'll get on this, but using hand tools and jigs, I get safe, smooth results.

I can't quite picture what your method is without knowing what the jig looks like (Brownell's only have this one available; Midway has a couple sear jigs but none for hammers), but that's what I am interested in doing, although I may be able to leave the hammer hooks alone on a new part. I'll know in a few days...
 
Perhaps new parts will remedy this to a degree as well

Only if the hammer (and sear) happens to be in the high side of width tolerance. The core problem is an out-of-tolerance frame.

If the hammer and/or sear (the sear is mounted in the same slot) can move from side to side the hooks will engage the sear at different points along the engagement surfaces, and to some degree this could affect the trigger pull.

But the real point I was trying to make is that many of the pistols being produced today are not to USGI 1911A1 print standards. That's part of the reason they have so many problems. People are buying these guns under the impression that they're the exact same as "the old army gun."

They aren't by a long shot. :uhoh:
 
People are buying these guns under the impression that they're the exact same as "the old army gun."

They aren't by a long shot.

I've heard that in many places and always wondered why. I mean, if you're a manufacturer you've got the blueprints to the most tried and true design imaginable sitting in your lap. Patents or whatever are all expired, so it's fair game. Add a throat for hollowpoints and call it done.

I can understand using different techniques (MIM) to cut costs, but I don't understand fiddling with something like the width of the slot the hammer sits in. Why re-engineer something that is close to mechanical perfection? Or is it just sloppy manufacture?
 
Or is it just sloppy manufacture?

Partly that, and a "why worry, people are buying them like hotcakes," attitude. I suspect that many of their suppliers are either working to their own prints, or no prints at all. No one is spending big money on inspection/quality control either. The guns and gun parts that Uncle Sam bought were inspected not only by the contractor's inspectors, but those employed by the government working in-house too.

While this mixture of dimensional standards might be true across the board, it is most evident in the lower priced lines - for obvious reasons. The basic design of the 1911 platform is not one that does well with cost-cutting modifications, but cost containment is the prime motive that drive gun makers.

If you buy a Glock, SIG, Ruger, Beretta, etc. you get a pistol that's made by one manufacturer working to their own blueprints and standards. If you purchase a 1911 platform pistol you get one that's made by numerous companies, most of which simply assemble a product out of parts bought from outside suppliers. Each of these part vendors and the "gun assembler," is working to their own standards, or lack of same.

Some makes and/or models are inexpensive, while others are very much so. But it's unlikely that a lower-end MIL-Spec model will be equal to a top end one, gadgets, gimmicks and cosmetics not withstanding. A custom pistol build by a master pistolsmith such as RogersPrecision will be a far cry from a S.A. MIL-Spec, but it will also cost three times as much or more - for good reason.

The bottom line is that the less expensive in relative terms the pistol is, the higher the chance of getting a lemon, although not all S.A. pistols meet this description. Obviously a high percentage of them do work, at least for a time. But this doesn't provide much assurance for those that get one that doesn't, or are looking to invest more money to improve their gun with aftermarket parts, etc.

And yes, on this forum we have explained this over, and over, and over.... :banghead:
 
re:

Apparently you ahve a tolerance stack condition, in which the hammer is at or near minimum width, and the frame recess is at or near maximum. Both parts are within allowable tolerances...but together, they throw the works out of what is acceptable. Add that to the oversquare wear pattern on the hooks...and the hammer pushes the sear out of engagement.

Question for Dave...and HEY! Good to have ya aboard, buddy!

The hook dimensions and geometry on the wide-spur hammer...As long as they're at about .027 on the length, and are cut undersquare as they come...I'd like to have a go with one. Not too fond of cast parts, but if you give'em your approval, I trust your judgement. They're good-lookin' hammers, and would be ideal for a USGI resto or a home-cobbled replica. I'd like to have one to put through the wringer on one of my beaters...but be warned that I don't do kind and gentle. I don't purposely abuse...but I do use hard, heavy, and often. If it passes the endurance test, I'll gladly back your endorsement.
I assume that you want to include a proprietary sear as well?
 
So because quality control has been outsourced to the customer, it's become profitable to turn out shoddy--though functional--work. Nice.

And yes, on this forum we have explained this over, and over, and over....

As Socrates said, "the just penalty of the ignorant is to be enlightened." Unfortunately the penalty of the wise is an endless stream of the ignorant! If 8,000 posts hasn't worn you out, I'd say you're up to the task!
 
Tuner:
Apparently you ahve a tolerance stack condition, in which the hammer is at or near minimum width, and the frame recess is at or near maximum. Both parts are within allowable tolerances...but together, they throw the works out of what is acceptable. Add that to the oversquare wear pattern on the hooks...and the hammer pushes the sear out of engagement.

Geez....do I need to bring calipers and a blueprint next time I buy a new gun?!

Ordered the Kuhnhausen books today. Those should spare you from a few dumb questions...or at least put them off a while while I read.

So...anyone have an extra wide hammer they'd like to sell?
 
Hammer for Sale?

Mal...Lemme dig around and see what I've got. If I can find one that's .310-.312 inch wide, I'll send it to ya. It may be a Series 80 Colt hammer...but they're made of blanked, heat-treated steel, and I've never had one to fail.
 
Apparently the reward of he who files heedlessly and without consulting the manual is new parts from Tuner. Sweet! :D

Seriously, I would be grateful if you happen to have a large-ish hammer about, and I will insist on paying you something for it.

I also promise to consult Kuhnhausen twice and search the forum at least once before asking for more free advice!
 
Hammer

Well...I dug up two good Series 80 hammers, and both are about the same width as yours. The hooks are stock on one. It was a take-off hammer that a guy gave me after he had the pistol smiffed on and used a rowel hammer/ducktail combo. The other one has seen *ahem* a few rounds, but was working fine when I took it off when I rebuilt the gun.

And...I have a stock hammer that I took off of a GI Mil-Spec that had seen maybe 500 rounds. The owner wanted a steel hammer with a captive half-cock and a new sear. Dimensions are the same as yours. Might be worth a try. PM me with your snail-mail digits if you wanna go ahead with the project.
 
Sainthood

Well...I dunno if "Saint" would be an apt description. I've got a couple of ex-wives who'd argue that point with ya... :)

Truth is, that I've got a few hammers that I'll likely never have use for...and if somebody else does, they're welcome to'em.

I found two candidates...both are practically identical in width to what Mal has, but the hooks are unsmiffed. One is a Series 80 Colt, and the other is a lightly-used Springfield GI Mil-Spec hammer. So...Nothing will improve as far as the sideplay, but because the hooks are pretty much stock, one of'em may be an improvement over what he has. I'll send both...hopefully today.
It's about a 20-minute drive to the nearest post office that doesn't get me tangled up in downtown Lexington...which is about 15 minutes away. Not exactly Midtown Manhattan, but I like to steer clear of traffic and stop/go drivin' when and if I can.
(Bad back. Sometimes my right leg is a little slower than it should be gettin' on and off the binders. The product of a reckless, misspent youth...and not much to be done about it at this point.) So...Hopin' for today, but could be tomorrow. Will advise. I'll include a strut pin just in case. Don't stake it 'til ya decide which hammer will work.
 
Hammers

Package sent. We're close, so it should be there by Saturday. The Springfield hammer still has a strut attached, but I dropped in a spare pin just in case. Your home 20 is about 3 hours away, straight up I-85 North, and I'm about 3 road miles from an exit. If all else fails...Road trip!;)
 
You are a kind, kind man, whatever the ex-wives say.

I will actually be driving right by you sometime in February...would love a chance to learn a little first hand, if I can only convince the wife...hmmm, have to work on that one.
 
Oh, forgot to mention. I was thinking about the sideplay in the hammer. If the only thing loose was the hammer in the slot laterally, it would not be able to twist so far. The pin has to be loose as well, or the pin has to bend, or something, otherwise the hammer could slide side to side a few thousdandth's, but it wouldn't twist if the pin was tight.

New pins are on the way from Brownell's, heat treated and (fingers crossed) the right size. Perhaps that will make a difference...although I suspect it doesn't matter when firing, since I don't think any force on the hammer is going to twist it.
 
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