NEF/H&R SS questions

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conw

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Hi,

I have read some cool threads on the NEF/H&R single-shot (Pardner and Topper respectively) shotguns, and wanted to ask a couple of questions.

Do both of these auto-eject the shell upon breaking?

What are some good brands of side-saddle/butt-sleeve?

Give me more good reasons to get one?
(currently:
a) trap shooting
b) backup SD/HD gun
c) reliable
d) hunting
e) fun?
)

sm and others please give input?

Thanks.
 
It's $120, tops, dead reliable, lightweight, and a shotgun. What other reasons do you need?

Some eject shells, most do in fact, but some models do not. Check out www.hr1871.com
 
conwict,

I suggest 20 ga or smaller single shot shotguns due to Rule of 96 (weight of gun to payload recoil curve).

The one I keep handy is a H&R, Youth, 20 gauge, with the fixed modified choke, with the factory recoil pad.
Total length is 36" and the barrel itself is 22".

Mine ejects the spent hull.
I currently have a slip on elastic shell holder on the buttstock, made by Koplin.

I grew up with these, and in Youth size, as everyone had one like this.
These fit smaller folks in the home and bigger folks could use it too.

I have used mine to shoot skeet, hunt game from doves, quail, small game, ducks, deer and pest control.
Along with assisting new folks on shotguns, and taking it along on travels, and even when I just needed to babysit a house for someone.


Random Notes:

- I want choke on a shotgun, so what I have is a bone stock youth shotgun, with choke, that is small, easy to tote, and easy to carry in a vehicle.

Which is better IMO/IME than cutting off a longer barrel, therefore losing choke and having a gun that looks, because it was "whacked" to make a "truck gun".

-Butt cuffs.

- Shooting off side with a butt cuff, will not allow one proper cheek wield, and it will cut you, and hurt you.
So, one must do some training and investigate what one really needs in regard to extra shells, like a butt cuff.

These slip on elastic shell holders, will move around with recoil and handling.

a. Use electrical tape to keep in place.
Electrical tape holds up real well, sticks well, easy to remove, and less likely to hurt a finish.
I just get the shell holder in place, and between the first two, and last two shell holders, place the tape and wrap. It does not take much tape.

I have inserted the tape through a shell holder, most times the reason is, these slip ons, being elastic, after some use, and being exposed to sun break down.
Just getting the last bit of use out of one until it needs thrown away.

b. Do not tape in place.
Mine currently is not, nor are the ones I introduce new shooters with , or assist them with.

i. I am old school, and all about correct basic fundamentals, such as gun fit.
I don't want a shell holder on a single shot, or any shell holder on any gun with a new person.
It changes balance of the gun, it distracts a shooter with something else on the gun.

ii. A person may be left handed, so me being right handed, or the guns I used being owned by right handed folks, means that gun is not going to work with a left handed person, or one doing weak hand lessons.

The folks will know I have their safety in mind, I and mine make sure of this.
We explain all of this to them.
Just hand them a cuff, off the gun, with shells and have them place onto their cheek.
It is that obvious gun fit is affected and recoil will hurt.

iii. Belt shell holder, such as used by Cowboy action shooters, are a great option.

If deer season for instance coincides with a small game or upland game season, slugs on the belt compliment the loads for game, no matter if using a shell vest, shell pouch, shells in a jacket pocket, or a butt cuff.

I often just slip slugs on a belt, have the butt cuff with pellet loads and walk property.
I can transition loads, very easy, and know, where the slugs are if need.

At home, I leave mine slip on only as I can "roll" it to the other side, yank it off and slip over strong or weak side arm, or slip it onto my belt...

I share shooting these, just like dangerous game hunters shoot a double rifle, meaning I have a shell in weak hand fingers, fire gun, eject, slip that shell into chamber and fire again.
Once I load that gun, if I do not have a need to shoot again , I snag another shell and have one in weak hand fingers.

This is how I shoot regular skeet, and hunt and get the second shot off fast, by keeping the second shell in weak hand fingers.

Serious situation, I do this too, If I have to shoot three, I have options as to where I get additional shells, belt, or from butt cuff.
Serious use, I only use slugs.
Another reason why mine is not fastened with tape.
If I do travel, and stay in a motel, I can change cuffs and use #3 buckshot in that hotel/motel room.

I mark my cuffs, slug or #3 buckshot, for me, if marked, it means buckshot, if not, slugs.
I have to break this down to simple, just me, and how raised.



I'll stop here to allow you mull this over, feel free to ask more questions.
 
sm,

THANKS! Man, I really follow your stuff avidly. I think you ought to have a blog. Then again, that would deprive some THR readers of your spot-on advice.

I really appreciate the advice a lot. I may think of some more questions, but I am currently wondering...you said you like the 20 ga "Junior" model, which I am eying as well. You also mentioned once that "20 ga is the preferred all-around use for serious stuff as well as deer hunting." I'm wondering, why 20 ga? I gave my dad a 20 ga Mossy 500 for his b-day, so I was going to get a 20ga anyway so we could shoot together easier, but why exactly do you prefer 20 over 12 for your own use? Is it because of the rule of 96 or are there other reasons too?

Also--rule of 96...let's see if I am getting this. There is an optimal balance of recoil vs power, and 20 ga is it?
 
Rule of 96

A shotgun should weigh 96x the weight of the shot payload for best handling, power vs recoil, etc.

1oz of shot, 96oz gun, 6lbs.

1-3/4oz of shot, 10.5lbs.

Single shot 12s weigh about 6lbs. Ouchie...

Gun fit is a big factor too. If the gun fits poorly and doesn't feel natural in the hands the felt recoil will be worse, in most cases. My BPS 10ga. is heavy, and it fits me well in general, but the balance is awkward (barrel heavy) and so if I botch mounting the gun it hurts. A lot.

I am a big fan of the single shot shotgun, as these were what I grew up with. What's that again, sm? "How raised, what you do..?"

You're never too old to try single shot shotguns. Just be smart about it.


gp911
 
In a milieu of tactical magnum long-range hi-cap black weatherproof precision milled 1-in-8 3/4" twist etc etc guns, I think I have a desire for something simple and fun. I think the SS H&R will really fulfill that need, and allow me to learn and relearn the fundamentals.
 
gp911, could you clarify what you mean by "be smart?" Never hurts to ask just to be sure :)
 
Fun.

Effective.

Cheap.

Fun.

The minimalist's shotgun. Nothing can be subtracted and still be a shotgun.

Light, great for toting where a shot or two may be fired.

Fun. A great way to unleash the small child that still dwells within.

Did I mention fun?....
 
Dave, I was already going to get one...but I can't for a little while...WHY DID YOU HAVE TO MAKE ME WANT ONE EVEN MORE?!

Oh yeah. That was what I asked for in the first post. :D

Thanks guys.
 
Another thing. If you are training a young bird dog, you want to only shoot one shot per covey of quail or flight of doves. If you are only going to be shooting one shot anyway, why carry a repeater or double barrel? Just extra weight you aren't using, or you may regret it.

Have learned this the hard way -- if you're only going to shoot one shot, only load one. You may get lost in the moment and hit that second trigger before your brain catches up with the fact that you instinctively want that second bird, or missed in the first place.

Just sayin'. Get a single-shot. It's for the baby dogs!!
 
Be smart = don't try to pattern 3" 12 gauge slugs in a 6lb gun right away... Try the smaller guns first, as many of them are sweethearts, see 28 gauge for example. Try a 20 with lighter loads, etc. Don't just get a light 12 and start throwing heavy payloads as you'll just get irritated.

My 2 cents...

gp911
 
Oh, the other thing? If you're so inclined, they can be VERY extensively modified....

attachment.php


(Yes, I paid the $200 NFA tax, it's legal)
 
Got a few questions about the H&R Topper Junior Classic.

I understand that it's possible to get a second barrel for it in another gauge so that a 20 gauge can also be used to shoot 12 gauge. Is that true?

If so, can the owner switch barrels back and forth so that it's possible to shoot both 20 gauge and 12 gauge from the same gun?
 
Hairless, you malingerer, you already had your own Topper thread.

Just kidding. Have you bought one yet?

I can't decide between the Topper Jr Classic and the Topper Jr. The Jr Classic looks so old-school...but the Jr is slick.
 
I'm more a lingerer than a malinger, I think. :)

I did buy one at last. It's even more fun than I'd anticipated. I was surprised to see that it can be reloaded fairly quickly. And accurate, very. As for your reliability criterion: absolutely. Built nicely too. And handsome. Now I'm curious about the different gauges.
 
This thread reminds me... my 28ga (thanks again Steve!) should be coming in within the next few days.
 
Look around for a used one - I just got one. It started out around $60 but wound up at $92 out the door at the local shop with some ammo.
I suggest 20 gauge. You get most of the power and versatility of the 12 gauge and good load selection. The recoil is also less than a 12 gauge so you can practice more without getting the hell beat out of you.

IIRC, H&R will fit a second shotgun barrel to your shotgun. After that's done, you can switch back and forth between them.

FYI, for hunting I've never noticed the difference between a single shot and a pump. I found that if I could shoot 3 shots from a pump at a squirrel, I often did, regardless of whether the squirrel really needed shot three times or not.
Effective, but not at all economical. ;)
With the single barrels, you get a sweet handling gun that just does what needs done with no BS.
What's not to love?

For defensive use, I've started to drift away from shotguns altogether in favor of handguns and rifles. Not to say shotguns aren't a good, effective choice - they're just not the choice for what I want to be able to do. But I'd imagine a load of 20 gauge No.3 buck will do as well at stopping a threat as anything else could. And a single shot isn't really that slow to reload as long as it's not a .410. A .410 shell is just too hard to get in the chamber by feel but a 20 or 12 gauge shell practically guides itself in.

As for reliability, there isn't really much to break. There are only a handful of moving parts. I think it was Dave McCracken who said that they're basically as simple as you can get and still have a gun. IMO, simple usually = reliable. At the very least, I've never heard of any problems with them.

Fun? Of course they are as long as you don't go sticking full power 12 gauge buck or slugs in one. But with "regular" loads, even the 12 gauges aren't at all punishing to shoot. I'd still advocate the 20 gauge over a 12 gauge though. Sure, the 12 is more versatile on paper because you can stick a load of 3" 15 pellet 00 in it. But if you're anything like me, you'll only want to do that maybe once or twice a year, literally.
A five round box of slugs should last you seven years if you're using them correctly out of a single shot NEF 12 gauge. My 20 gauge is much more user friendly with "serious" shotgun loads.
 
Conwict, I deny wrongdoing. Blame Steve.

A couple things....

There's lots of used H&R/NEFs out there. I'd skip anything made before WWI because of short chambers and soft receivers but other wise you're OK.

If I were getting a multibarrel NEF setup, I'd buy a rifle and get shotgun barrels fitted. NEF will do this, but not rifle barrels on a shotgun receiver. Heat treating's different.

BTW, a 22 Hornet or 22 Mag barrel with a decent scope is a great varmint gun out to 100 yards plus.

A 30-30 barrel with a low power scope makes a good deer and coyote gun.

The downside to the NEF platform is the trigger is oft as heavy as the weight of the shotgun. One can spend as much on a trigger job as for the gun. Still a good idea, though.

While some folks like to bob the barrels on these, that makes a very light gun even lighter and hard to use. A longer barrel is easier to keep swinging when wingshooting and is steadier when aiming.
 
I'm a big H&R fan, too, and I have pointed out before that now that Remingon has bought Marlin which owns H&R, get your Handi Rifles while the getting is good. They have announced the closure of the Gardner, MA plant, and while they say they will keep making them elsewhere, Remington already has the Russian-made Spartan line of single shots....

Again, I have said before that a single shot can be a beautiful gun as well. Some of the youth models were available with case-colored receivers, and the wood-and-blue ones look perfect with some leather ammo storage (cuff, wallet, etc.) on the stock. Personally, I like the Pardner Compact in .410 because of the straight grip stock. With 3" 00 buck shells (5 pellets end to end) it would even be handy for home defense.

PS--If the description on the Buds Gun Shop site is accurate, the .410 and 20 gauge models are still available with the color case receivers, hard butt plate on the .410, recoil pad on the .20, either for $135 delivered to your local FFL.
 
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While it is true that they plan to close the Gardner plant and that Remington already has the Spartan single-shots, it is my understanding that HR1871 has been a profit leader for Marlin. It would make sense, and maybe I am just hoping, to keep a profitable division still going. The Spartan single-shots are really quite different with a different opening mechanism and they don't offer near the selection that HR/NEF does. Additionally, while I will buy a foreign-made gun if that is the only or clearly the best option, I see no reason to buy a foreign-made single-shot, either Rossi, Magtech, or Baikal, when the classic H&R single shot is so good and still available. No brainer for me. Cerberus' business plan has been to attempt to enhance profitable lines and diminish unprofitable ones. Since HR/NEF has been profitable, I am hoping they will keep it. It does make sense to consolidate production and I am sure there is plenty of unused manufacturing capacity at other locations. Maybe that's wishful thinking as there are a couple of them I would like to get. I do have a small concern about buying one that was made between the time the workers found out they are losing their jobs and the actual closing of the plant. There could be some low morale in Gardner as this year progresses. (Hope not, but it seems possible.) I would like either a Topper Deluxe Classic or Topper Deluxe. I did buy one of the synthetic-stocked, choke-tubed models from Walmart but find that, for me, the wood stocks seem to fit better. Could be that as I get older I might wish I had gone the 20 gauge route, though, LOL. One thing for sure, the 10 gauge is NOT on my radar screen :).
 
Owlnmole, what's a color case receiver exactly?

goon, what do you mean "what you want to be able to do?" I'm just curious.

Dave, thanks. I'm curious, once you get the barrel fitted it's just a matter of switching them out at will? I've always been curious why H&R doesn't just sell packages...(or do they?)
 
Conwict, NEF/H&R has offered duos like 357 Mag and 20 gauge in the past. I've no idea if they do now or plan to do so.

Swapping out the barrels, which have to be fitted to the receiver is simple.

After ensuring the weapon is empty, unscrew the big screw in the forend. Remove the forend and hit the opening latch. Pull the barrels down until one can remove them.

New barrels need new forends. Install in reverse order.

HTH.....
 
Conwict - I have a huge amount of respect for shotguns in general.
A few years ago I bought an 18" Mossberg 12 gauge for $149. It was in excellent shape and I needed a "disposable" defense gun for my first apartment. The Mossberg served me well for that. I also found that it shoots slugs just about like a rifle out to around 70 yards. My brother even managed to break a few clay pigeons laying on the bank with slugs out of it from 100 yards.
Having said that, I've been thinking lately. The stuff I've read indicates that even buckshot will potentially overpenetrate. That's just as dangerous as a rifle or handgun, and what's worse is that there are going to be anywhere from 9 to 15 pellets spreading out. That means there is even more chance of an innocent getting hit with a shotgun in play.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

A rifle also has greater accuracy if you need to take a more precise shot. And it could at least double the range of a shotgun while still being just about as effective at contact distance.

As I said, I have a huge respect for the shotgun as a defensive weapon, but for my uses the combination of a handgun and a good rifle would just serve me better.

BTW - I think NEF does sell packages.
 
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