Neighbor hands me a pistol pointed at self.

[Owen Sparks]

Saturday I heard a bunch of shooting coming from the house on an adjacent piece of property so I walked over to see what kind new toy somebody had. It turned out that it was my neighbors grown son and a buddy trying out a new pistol. We got to talking and visiting and I asked him how he liked it. He said “here, try it.” and hands me pistol grip first with the barrel pointed right at his chest. In order for me to take the pistol I would have to violate all four basic safety rules. I had no idea if it were loaded, if there was a round in the chamber or if someone had botched a trigger job making it prone to discharge if handled. This is not the first time that I have been put in this position. I have had store clerks and dealers at gun shows do the same. I realize that the other person is trying to be safe but it puts me in a really awkward position the instant it leaves his hand and is in mine.

 

[NavyLCDR]

better than handing the gun to you barrel first.

 

[CoRoMo]

Yes. A lot of gun owners have had no safety education or training whatsoever.

So... how did you handle it? Are they wiser today?

 

[Owen Sparks]

I did not want to be rude because I was a visitor on his property. I gently swept the muzzel aside as I took it.

 

[91 whiskey]

I always lock the slide back or open the cylinder grasp the barrel from the top and hand it to the other person with the grip facing them and barrel pointed towards the ground. Heck one time I asked a clerk if I could dry fire something and he says "Sure but point it at me when you pull the trigger." The next question out of my mouth was something along the line of "Is your manager around?"

 

[Nushif]

Sounds like the right thing to do, to be honest.

What I have seen a lot and done a lot, too, in handguns ... you clear it, show the chamber to the other person, and then hand it over as he did. does it violate the four GODGIVENSAFETYRULESTHATTHOUSHALTFOLLOWTOTHELETTER? Yes, it arguably does, but it allows the other person to get a good and secure grip on the gun quicklike and safely in its own way.

I think handing over a cleared gun this way falls under the common sense clause ... uncleared? Dunno, the only person I hand uncleared guns to is people I have shot with before with the added warning "It is ready to go."

[edit]

Oh yeah, you're supposed to hand it over with the slide locked back that way ...

[/edit]

 

[HGUNHNTR]

I would sacrifice etiquette and decorum for safety every time. I have taken a number of new shooters to the range or hunting. I am a pretty soft spoke guy, but if ANY safety rule is comprimised I absolutely let them have it..no matter who it is. I make sure to tell them that it isn't anything personal other than the fact that I really like them, and I want them to stay above ground for a bit longer.

 

[Nushif]

I am a pretty soft spoke guy, but if ANY safety rule is comprimised I absolutely let them have it..

Just on a bit of a tangent, I hate it when people do that. I am a softspoken guy myself and I correct in the same way I do most things, gently and softspoken-like, in an escalating manner. To me when people show the "angryface" when they're in their element, or a position of instruction or power just screams power abuse. Nothing personal, but it bugs me.

 

[HGUNHNTR]

I don't do it in an angry way, just in a very commanding way. I would rather "bug" someone and live to see tomorrow, than let little things slide that could end in tragedy.

Now, if they inserted the mag backwards I would calmly show them how to properly insert the mag. If they pointed the pistol at their chest, I would be more forceful in conveying my thoughts.

 

[Nushif]

Well ... "bug" as in ... I wouldn't want to go shooting with you ever again and would recommend against taking a course from someone like that. I guess I was being softspoken. 8)

I understand the sentiment, but I guess it's a personal hangup when sudden softspokenity (new word!) turns into commands or volume.

Back on target for the thread though ... has nobody here ever seen a pistol handed off in the way I said? that's really the only way I have ever seen it done in an official function.

 

[Justin]

What I have seen a lot and done a lot, too, in handguns ... you clear it, show the chamber to the other person, and then hand it over as he did. does it violate the four GODGIVENSAFETYRULESTHATTHOUSHALTFOLLOWTOTHELETTER? Yes, it arguably does, but it allows the other person to get a good and secure grip on the gun quicklike and safely in its own way.

Yes, it is a violation of the Four Rules, and while it may not necessarily present a danger, it reinforces a bad habit, e.g. that it's ok to violate Rule 2.

That said, you are to be commended for clearing the gun, locking the action open, checking it, and showing the empty gun to the other person for verification.

With a minor adjustment to how you hold the gun, you can very easily hold a pistol in a safe direction while maintaining control of the gun and allowing whoever your handing it to the ability to grab the pistol by the grip.

I've attached a picture to demonstrate.

In this photo, I'm handing the gun over, while still maintaining control of the weapon with thumb and fingers, and the muzzle of the weapon is not covering myself or the person I'm handing it to.

Easy peasey.

 

[Owen Sparks]

It would not have bothered me if he simply handed it to me with the barrel pointed in a safe direction, or even if he had just pointed it at himself. The problem was that in taking it I had to point it at him even if only for a second or two. That made me feel a little queasy.

 

[CoRoMo]

There will always be next time.

 

[Mudinyeri]

There will always be next time.

Until the last time ....

I'm a bit of a safety nut I suppose. I tend to let people know if I don't feel safe because of the way they're handling a weapon. It's just sort of an involuntary reaction, I guess.

 

[Skribs]

I would absolutely let them have it if they were breaking a safety rule, and I'm a softspoken guy, too. I take safety very seriously - I even had to ban a couple of friends from high school from using my air gun because they were being careless. I would rather promote habits that keep myself and others alive in the case of accidental discharges than worry about the other's person's feelings.

Then again, I'm a blunt, up-front person. If I'm doing something wrong, I want people to tell me right away so I don't learn bad habits, and can instead learn the right way to do things early on. I apply the do-unto-others approach to this as well, and I make a lot of people mad...but those who I don't make mad are generally like-minded and we quickly become friends.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I saw a 1911 with an improper "hair trigger" job discharge when laid on a table once and that convinced me. Any time there are moving parts under spring tension there is potential for mechanical failure. That is why I did not like the idea of taking a pistol of unknown condition into my hand while its owner was standing in front of it.

 

[CoRoMo]

Until the last time ....

Well if nobody's going to help the guy out, it's not going to get fixed. There will always be a next time when he does this again.

I have family that have never received any sort of lesson in hunting ethics or gun safety. I wasn't comfortable partaking in these activities around them until I spoke up and gave them some direction.

 

[Toforo]

Saturday I heard a bunch of shooting coming from the house on an adjacent piece of property so I walked over to see what kind new toy somebody had. It turned out that it was my neighbors grown son and a buddy trying out a new pistol. We got to talking and visiting and I asked him how he liked it. He said “here, try it.” and hands me pistol grip first with the barrel pointed right at his chest. In order for me to take the pistol I would have to violate all four basic safety rules. I had no idea if it were loaded, if there was a round in the chamber or if someone had botched a trigger job making it prone to discharge if handled. This is not the first time that I have been put in this position. I have had store clerks and dealers at gun shows do the same. I realize that the other person is trying to be safe but it puts me in a really awkward position the instant it leaves his hand and is in mine.

EASY answer - don't accept the gun.....

.....for as you say in your signature line -

"There is absolutely nothing that you can do with a firearm to harm other people or their property that is not already covered by an existing law"

 

[rellascout]

Dude you are in serious need of new neighbors.... I guess the safety lesson from last time did not stick.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=604978

 

[twofifty]

vinegar vs. honey

I've found that bluntly delivering a safety broadside does less good in the long run than delivering the same message in a calm way. Since I've eased off on the intensity level my safety message is better received by the clueless.

This results in a safer and happier range.

 

[1911Tuner]

In days past, that was the accepted way to hand off a gun to a peace officer. It conveys the message:

"I'm peaceably disposed. I'm not a threat to you, and I'm proving it by placing myself at your mercy."

A little like the origin of the salute. It demonstrates that the man you're facing is unarmed and is moving his hand away from the sword or dagger on his belt. The salute motion can be seen at a distance, showing that the man up the road wants you to know that he isn't looking for a confrontation, which is why...traditionally...the salute is held until returned. It started with Medeval knights in armor. The hand lifted the visor, signaling that no fight is offered. If the visor goes down...look out.

 

[vellocet]

Move to a better area. Best wishes for the future.

 

[Cop Bob]

Scary stuff, but shoot and teach shooting enough and it will happen to you...

I have found, that the use of a calm, cool, collected and assertive voice, directing them to point the weapon down range, "For Both Our Safety" and then have them either place it on the bench, or if one not available, make sure their finger is out of the trigger guard, and take possession of the weapon... Make the weapon safe, remove magazine, lock slide back, open cylinder, etc. and then let the politely know that that is the proper way to pass a weapon.. As we say, Educate, don't Berate.

It has happened to me many times... especially on the streets, or with civilian shooters, gun owners.. Had a call one time, to a large business, the business owner had been gifted a Colt Detective.. he had never in his life even held a gun before... later, he was examining, playing with, what ever you want to call it... and managed to cock the thing. He was scared to death, had his secretary call the police to "save him".. when I arrived, and determined that it was, what it was.. I simply had him point the gun toward to floor and the far corner, I walked up to him, and wrapped my hand around the revolver in a manner that placed the web of my hand between the hammer and the frame.. When I had control of the gun, and out of his hands, I thought he was going to pass out.. However before I left, he knew how to load, unload, cock, uncock, had a good idea what a proper grip was, and knew how to dryfire double action.. He turned out to be a friend for many years.. I even taught his children how to shoot...

 

[Magoo]

Nushif- yes, I have passed a handgun back to a trusted friend after clearing/resolving whatever issue on the firing line stating "the weapon is hot". I think as long as both parties understand and respect the 4 rules, there is no violation in the cooperation.

 

[Shadow 7D]

So, don't be too offended
in some cultures that would be a sign of respect due to a honored guest or older person.

With a knife, you always hand it HILT first, holding the blade if it's naked. In part to show that you have no hostile intent etc.

So, just point out the safety factor and explain that with guns, you hand the weapon over sideways with the action open, showing clear, after having cleared it in the presence of the person you are handing it to. EDUCATION is called for, not a butt chewing, they did a booboo, oh well, explain what they did wrong, and show by example, nicely.