Neighborhood Watches

[geekWithA.45]

Cameras have their uses in fighting crime.

One of them is to provide the feeling that something is being done.

Another is to provide folks with an excuse to wring their hands, whiff on doing their part, and be generally helpless.

 

[SJG26]

Neighborhood Watch of a different urgency........

Oh joy.......look what managed to sneak into my town........smack in the middle and close to my church, SEVERAL youth-oriented programs and next to a senior's home project and numerous residences :

http://www.republicanherald.com/site...d=532624&rfi=6

"Firetree, the company that operates the Conewago halfway house for ex-inmates and probation and parole violators on the grounds of Wernersville State Hospital as well as a drug and alcohol treatment center there, purchased the Hamburg property last week for $1.5 million.

Hamburg’s code enforcement officer, John Leonforte, said the borough is limited in what it can do to stop Firetree from pursuing its plans because the borough’s zoning ordinance allows halfway houses, facilities that typically provide residential

rehabilitation treatment for drug and alcohol offenders for a temporary time after they are released from prison, as a permitted use in the district, which is zoned V-C or village commercial.

“Legally, you’ve done what you need to do, but morally you’ve not done the right thing,” said Jim Mikucki, an Edenburg resident, who said he is concerned for the safety of his wife, who works in downtown Hamburg.

Council President Tammy Wilkinson said she and council members are urging residents to start a petition against Firetree.

Firetree’s development director, Brandi Kopenhaver, told the crowd that violent offenders and sexual predators aren’t accepted into Firetree’s inpatient treatment program, but Vanessa Star, a member of the crowd who identified herself as an adult probation officer for Berks County, disputed Kopenhaver’s claims.

“I know that’s not true,” Star said. “I’ve referred drug dealers, violent offenders to your program in Wernersville and you’ve taken them. Some of our people have walked away from your facility,”

Naturally, we are scrambling via petition and contacted our County and State Reps. Zoning is already against us.............

We have heard/read of too many instances of the "clients" walking around other facilities, causing havoc and generally being of great risk to law-abiding folk and children and property values.

IF we can't stop the facility, I am a proponent of a VERY active communtity watch program......but not just your soccer-mom /cry-wolf type group.....previous police-sponsored watch groups failed or never got a start due to lack of support.

I intend us to be an ARMED and very visible entity.....open-carry is legal and members will be encouraged to have LTCF.

Our message is - You are not welcome here ----- step out of line in any way/shape/form and the response will be swift and painful.




Have any of you had exposure to a similar situation and what were/are the results?

 

[rwc]

Last year my island hired an emergency planning coordinator who used a variation on this theme. He encouraged every neighborhood to organize and create a neighborhood preparedness plan. We inventoried our skills (engineers, doctor, ...), assets (generators, tools, etc.), and made a plan for checking on each other with a "rally point" so we can coordinate our response as a neighborhood. Basic idea is to care for each other for a week or more so we aren't a drain on the community (we've got a high number of elderly - PD & FD will be busy). Finally, if you want, you can share your skills inventory with the city so they know who to call to help with the bridge, or assist with triage at the fire station, etc.

It was quite reassuring to know that we had our act together and were willing (with only a couple exceptions) to take care of each other if needed, as needed. I will confess to organizing my neighbors for this since I work "off island" and wanted to make sure there was a plan in the event I'm stuck on the wrong side of 7 miles of cold salt water.

Not "neighborhood watch" but darn effective. If folks are interested I can dig up the skills inventory template, etc. and post them.

rwc

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

The success of a neighborhood watch depends on the neighbors. I've had my house burgled and my truck stolen (different occasions). In both cases it was the neighbors. As far as I'm concerned, the best neighbor is a good fence.

 

[Titan6]

I am interested RWC, go ahead and post them.

 

[sm]

The Lone Haranguer wrote:
The success of a neighborhood watch depends on the neighbors.

Wise words and the key to all of all this "neighborhood" business.

Here is the reality of society, folks used to grow up, and know their neighbors.

Folks took personal responsibility for themselves, and parented kids and mentors mentored others.
This was before governing bodies said they could do a better job of raising kids and keeping society safe.

Granted a lot of folks stayed put for years, both in the city, and rural areas, then again, there were those that moved in, stayed a bit, moved off.

Nonetheless everyone knew neighbors, both the good neighbors, questionable ones, and even criminal ones.

Folks led by example, if a mom and kid were out, and met a new kid and mom while walking, they read one another, were friendly, still did not reveal too much, instead investigating one another.
Once accepted as being okay, they might share with the new neighbors that some folks down the way were sorta "odd" and it was best not to get to close to them, or friendly.

Schools the same way, many went to neighborhood schools, so kids, teachers parents knew one another...and who was "good" ,"questionable" or "bad".

Today, folks are led to believe governing bodies can parent kids and keep them safe in society.
Folks do not know their neighbors, they are less prone to interact, and folks move in , and out and come and go more frequent.

Stereotyping and Profiling has always been done, just some sensory input, from governing bodies, and now Internet, perpetuate many false things, that get blown out of proportion fast and spread more quickly to more folks.

Signs, and cameras can be a deterrent, just like locks keep an honest man honest, so do signs and cameras.
Someone leaning toward acting on a impulse, like a kid stealing a candy bar, is deterred because they know better,and that sign about shop lifting, and that camera, reminds them they were raised better, and they don't steal candy.

Criminals are wired different, signs, cameras , and nothing else impedes them, they disregard, and will actually used these deterrences to assist in casing areas where folks are more prone to be prey, more reliant on others for safety instead of being personally responsible.

Kids are smart, they can pick up what kids at the playground they want to play with , and which ones are not nice, drifty, or bullies, they play together and watch out for one another.

Parents will ask a kid why they don't play "over there" the kids shares why, and the parents can read those other kids and any adults that brought them and understand.

Just like neighbors used to do, just less so today.

 

[Titan6]

Folks took personal responsibility for themselves, and parented kids and mentors mentored others.
This was before governing bodies said they could do a better job of raising kids and keeping society safe.

That is the key, I believe to many of our society ailments.

Folks do not know their neighbors, they are less prone to interact, and folks move in , and out and come and go more frequent.

This is also a big problem. When I was growing up parents tossed their kids out of the house to go play on summer afternoons. These days it is either too hot or they are just as happy keeping them home to watch TV or playing on the computer under the illusion that they are "spending time with the kids".

When I was a kid we went on vacation trips with the neighbors every summer. Even though my parents moved away 20 years ago the neighbors still remembered them. We had a watch and while it was maybe 30% watching and 70% socializing we rarely had a break-in or other crime that was not committed by an outsider.

When as a eleven year old, five teenaged hoods jumped me and my brother and stole my watch on the streets in broad daylight we simply walked to the nearest neighbors house and very quickly there was quite an uproar. The neighbors and then the police caught them as they were trying to cross the railroad tracks and slink out of town. After we identified them we never saw them again, although I heard that they got sent to reform school.

Today, folks are led to believe governing bodies can parent kids and keep them safe in society.

I am not sure if people really believe that or they choose to believe it because many people feel that both parents have to work in order to maintain a certain standard of living. I just don't believe that any standard of living is worth sacrificing a good upbringing for your kids. You can always find another job, but you only get one set of kids.

 

[MiddleAgedKen]

All too often, both parents have to work to maintain any standard of living, once the tax man gets through with them.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

On the brighter side, perhaps with fuel and living costs going up, people will go back to talking to their neighbors and hanging out with them instead of spending their time driving here and there spending money.
Perhaps the neighborhood will make a comeback, and crime will have a harder time landing and staying.

 

[coloradokevin]

Neighborhood Watches

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We don't hear much about these groups as a measure to reduce threats. I see them as another layer of protection. I was curious as to what experinces people have had with them and what level of success you have achieved with them.

I definitely feel that neighborhood watch groups serve as a deterent to crime. For starters, it encourages people to know their neighbors, and to be alert to their surroundings (two things that are increasingly rare in our society).

Even without semi-formal "watch" groups, I've found that (all else being equal) the neighborhoods that have lower levels of crime in my city are the ones where neighbors know and trust each other... Thus, these folks are likely to call 911 and say "hey, I see someone looking in Joe's window... Joe's out of town, and I know that there isn't supposed to be someone over at his place".

In my department the Neighborhood Watch groups are organized by our Community Resource Officers, so I don't directly work with them very often.

Despite the fact that I don't directly organize these groups with citizens, I have attended a few meetings, and I have a few thoughts on the state of things with these groups. Sadly, the current state of affairs seems to suggest that only senior citizens are interested in these endeavors! At the last meeting I was at, I'd estimate that 20-25 people were in attendance, and only 2 were not seniors!

Similarly, one of my shift partners complained to me one day about a watch group that he tried to help organize for his own neighborhood (which is in the city where we work). He told me that he ended up only having 6 people in attendance, and all were seniors. Of those six, only three or four were interested.

Any way you slice it, I think these groups are a great idea, I just wish that more of the "next" generation(s) would become involved (this would include MY generation).


Edited to add:

I tried to find out who was running the neighborhood watch so that I could join. I was told that all that was left of the "watch" was the signs.

This is all too often the case. In fact, after I originally replied, my wife reminded me that our neighborhood has the signs... and no group!

I haven't worried about it too much here, yet. Our new neighborhood seems quiet, we are very alert to our surroundings (being a LE family), and we are surrounded by beady-eyed seniors who are suspicious of those they don't know (which is the BEST alarm system I could ever hope for). Additionally, with my weird schedule, it is very rare that either my wife or I is not home! Still, a sign without a group just seems like a joke!

 

[btg3]

For Feb-Mar, I lived in an upscale gated apartment complex with video surveilance. My parked car was sideswiped one night. Identified the other car (not on video) and the driver has no insurance. Because it was on private property, the LEO took a report, but the detective would not pursue it. Bottom line, state law sets the deductible at $200 and my insurance pays with no strikes against me other than the $200. A witness would have made it a totally different story, but no one was "watching".

 

[rwc]

folks used to grow up, and know their neighbors.

That is a major factor in where I now live.

Titan6 -
The neighborhood "map" started life as an .xls file but THR doesn't like them. I've converted it to a word table and "pinched" the columns to get them to fit. Reformat as needed, or paste it back into Excel to work with it as you wish.

If someone is in a position to want to make this happen for their community, PM me and I can forward your contact information on.

 

[Titan6]

Thanks rwc, I appreciate you sharing.

I could be wrong but it seems to me that your group likely consists of people who are both friendly and close to share such detailed information about resources and skills available. I am not so sure that many of my current neighbors would be so forthcoming about whether or not they had a generator and their daily meds for example. At least they would not until the time when it is likely too late to do anything about it anyway. But I might be surprised.

Curiously there is no mention of firearms or other weapons which is surprising given the number of armed groups that sprung up after NOLA, Andrew and other type disasters. Not that weapons would be crucial in all cases of issues with the breakdown in government provided services but they could be important in many of them.

In any case I think such a format can be easily tailored to different geographic regions by adding or deleting information as needed. If implemented properly could go a long way to making a community more prepared for certain contingencies. But as you were saying this is not so much a neighborhood watch as it is more of a readiness type group. But you are definitely on to something here.

 

[rwc]

You are welcome. I enjoy the privilege of living in the equivalent of a semi-rural area near a very large city. Most of us moved here because we wanted a safe place to raise our kids and with great schools. Admittedly, we are very much a self-selected bunch (it was interesting to me that folks of different generations have all reached the same conclusion).

We are all on wells so generators are a natural discussion item. I didn't ask whether not listing firearms was a conscious decision on the part of the coordinator, but if I were him I wouldn't do it to avoid getting folks' "hackles up". A couple of us hunt and shoot regularly, we've a couple more ex-military, and there wasn't much need to discuss it beyond that.

I think the greatest benefit of this approach was getting us all together to talk about preparedness and share a little holiday cheer (we met before Christmas). We got to know each other better and to understand our collective needs and abilities. From the city's perspective we are a group of folks that they aren't going to have to worry much about, but can access for assistance if needed.

If mods think this is veering too far off-topic I am happy to start another thread.

 

[Titan6]

Preparedness groups are a good topic I think but different than what I am going for here. We went through a period when all people patrolled the streets and crime was low. We went through a period when police patrolled the streets and crime was low. Seems these days that most police don't patrol but instead go from call to call reacting to whatever situation they find. Maybe it is time to go back to people patrolling the streets. But it all comes down to people being willing to take make that effort.

 

[btg3]

Well, a meeting with LEO and neighbors is scheduled in a few weeks to revive NW in my area. It hasn't been active for at least the 4 years since we moved here. Questions are encouraged for the meeting, so, your suggestions for such questions are solicited.

FWIW, 115 interested household have "registered" via email, so this already has some momentum. These are upper/middle-class, older single-family homes with a good mix of young couples, families, retirees, what-have-you. In the past 2 years there have been an assault, stalking, auto theft, and petty theft. Overall, a rather nice low crime area with a few isolated incidences.

I went back and searched THR for NW threads/posts and to summarize:
1. NW is effective for chronic situations when LEO is notified.
2. For acute situations, you're still at the mercy of waiting on police, unless you have neighbors that are prepared to take action other than making a phone call.
3. NW gives a sense of security and deterence, but effectiveness often declines to the point of business-as-ususal over time.
4. Long-term, effective neighborhood security does not result from programs, but from neighbors committed to securing their neighborhood.

Thanks for all previous posts and the list of questions to come!

 

[Citroen]

New Age

The Internet and rapid communication with groups has altered Neighborhood Watch groups and made them even more beneficial. Our local PD even communicates with those who sign up, on an almost daily basis.

CMPD provides a link where you can get all the latest information on crimes, arrests and even a link to the parole board site to see who is coming to a neighborhood near you.

We receive descriptions of suspicious vehicles seen in the general area along with warnings about what they are doing.

Neighborhood Watches are just like the people who make them up - either very good or worthless. The Internet, however, has greatly increased the effectiveness of the good ones.

John
Charlotte, NC

 

[tn-dave]

Today's society has been dumbed down, indoctrinated, and legislated with restrictions that make it more easy for criminals and more difficult for law-abiding.

Wow, great post sm

 

[buck00]

"Neighborhood Watches" work beautifully, if you have several neighbors that are willing to participate.

Amen.


The best tools of a neighborhood watch are vigilance, cooperation, and strong communication- talking about what is going on, who is doing what... instead of everyone ignoring it. A good neighborhood watch isn't about AR-15s, red dots, and tactical gear.

 

[robmkivseries70]

Quoting Middle aged Ken,"All too often, both parents have to work to maintain any standard of living, once the tax man gets through with them." How true, I told my wife, based on some economic reports I've seen and my own experience that," High taxes and corporate greed have largely killed the nuclear family in this country." For those that remember Soc.101, the "family" is one of the five "functional prerequisites" for a society to survive. To keep this on track, it's those families that make good neighborhoods and towns.
Best,
Rob

 

[btg3]

Just to follow up on the NW revival meeting held in my neighborhood...

LEO gave a presentation that basically said: "Stay alert and if you see questionable stuff, then call us."
Secondly, we were encouraged to post NW signs on each street and mail box, $30 and $15 respectively. Lastly, LEO offered to perform a security survey of any home and make suggestions for "hardening".

In effect, the LEO can do very little without calls from NW. It is up to the homeowners to make it work, and an email communication network was set up to keep everyone connected.

So, my thoughts are still that NW is just one piece of a security plan for anyone's home and neighborhood. And maintenance is required to keep it alive.