Never owned a firearm, maybe never will

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Moopheus

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Hello all, I'm new here. I've been checking out this board for awhile now, and I find it really interesting and informative.

For the last couple of years I've been increasingly interested in owning a gun for self-defense and practice/target shooting. I've never owned a firearm, but I own a couple of airgun pistols that I shoot with from time to time.

I think I've always been interested in firearms. My father, and grandfathers all hunted, and owned guns. Unfortunately, due to some poor decisions in the past, I was convicted of a felony that involved hacking my local phone company at age 19. I spent 3 years on probation for that. Apparently, I no longer have the right to bear arms, but according to Arizona law and the US Constitution I still have this right. So I'm not completely sure. I'm 30 now. I was thinking of trying to purchase a firearm in my state, to see what happens.

I've been looking at some threads on this board about law abiding ex-felons and guns. Most of you think non-violent offenders should have their civil rights restored, but others think you should "suffer the consequences eternally" for breaking the law, whether it was a good or bad law in the first place. I'd just hope these same people aren’t going to complain when their time comes, when this country devolves into a Police State. Your guns, and your civil rights are next. I've seen this country deteriorate rapidly in the last 10 years, and I can only imagine what'll happen in the next 10.

I've decided I don't really want to live in a country for the remainder of my life, if it means I will not have the right to self-defense. So I am looking into possibly moving to another country where circumstances are more favorable to me, and I can actually protect myself.

I've never hurt anyone violently, but if I'm not able to defend myself, someone could very well harm me someday, or someone I love. This worries me greatly. I constantly have dreams about shadowy figures breaking into my home. One night I had a dream that I was surrounded by hundreds of guns, and I felt perfectly safe, calm and relaxed. I wish it wasn't just a dream.

I don't mean to start a debate on this or sound overly dramatic. I'm just introducing myself as someone who is interested in joining the fight for 2nd Amendment rights. I'm not looking for sympathy either; America is not a place for sympathy, I figured that out long ago.

If anyone lives in Arizona (PM me, and I'll tell you where I live exactly) I'd love to learn more about firearms from someone that could teach me directly. I'm hoping there is no law against that.

Maybe I still have a chance to own a firearm before I die.

Take care all.
 
I hope you find a way to get them back.
IMO, there should only be two types of ex-felons: Non-violent and dead.
Dead needs no explanation.
Non-violent people would have their rights completely restored after they had served their sentence and demonstrated that they could be trusted.

If you can't trust someone with a gun, why are you letting them out of prison?

I have also thought about maybe moving to another country for the same reason, but in order for you to really have more "freedom" (which would most likely really be a lack of law enforcement resources) you would have to go to a third world country. That doesn't completely rule it out but it is a factor. I am also an American and I know it.

At any rate, good luck to you.
 
What Weimadog said.

Go talk to a lawyer.

With a non-violent felony committed when you were 19, there might be a chance to petition to have your rights reinstated.

But go talk to a lawyer.

hillbilly
 
Yeah, lawyer up and write letters to your governor and congress critters seeking pardon. See if you can actually make the system work for ya before you bail. Do not break a law or give anyone a reason to further compound the issue by trying to buy something you know will cause strife.

Failing that, What was it that G. Gordon Liddy once said about his wife having a nice gun collection?

You could always begin a nice collection of Louisville Slugger bats.
 
Welcome aboard. I'll keep this brief as to not draw unwanted attention to myself. I think you have every right to arm yourself, the Constitution is on your side, although the government is not. I wish that this did not apply to people convicted of violent crimes, but the fact is my wish is meaningless, the Constitution is on their side. Everybody nowdays follows the orders of the government without question, regardless of the fact that the government consistently violates our god given rights.

I'm gonna put the flame suit on now. Go ahead and lay into me. Tell me how I don't care about "officer safety" or protecting the children, of which I have 3.
 
Most of you think non-violent offenders should have their civil rights restored...
Click to expand...

I've gradually come to embrace essentially that belief, although I'm not sure we'd need to draw a distinction between violent and non-violent youthful felonies. Punishment for life strikes me as being cruel and unusual—unless, of course, the felon demonstrates an inclination toward additional crimes.

Realistically speaking, I doubt America is going to restore felons' civil rights whole and complete: there are too many much larger battles involving the Second Amendment civil rights of law-abiding citizens.

If I were you, I'd speak with a lawyer about an expungement. I know some states have a process for that, and assume others don't.
 
Check with an attorney. Here in Georgia (and in many other states), you get your rights back (and qualify for a CCW) if you've been free of all supervision for at least five years. It's been eleven for you, so you should be clear.

Especially given that it was a non-violent crime and did not involve weapons-violations, I don't see that there should be a problem. Unless Arizona's really backward about that sort of thing.

I am a little ignorant on this, as I only know about Georgia law, but I'd like to hear how other states handle this.
 
Talk to a lawyer admitted in your state, but I think you're out of luck. If I recall correctly Congress passed a bill saying that no funds could be used to restore gun rights, which is a backdoor way Congress has of prohibiting something. Get some pepper spray.
 
Trying to go buy a gun without any change in your legal status is a bad idea. Follow the advice given so far and you'll get further. You may or may not get to own a gun, but you won't go to jail for talking to a lawyer.
 
There are legal mechanisms, by which, your rights may be restored. A lawyer can advise.
SatCong
 
I agree with Goon. If it's a non-violent felony and a person has paid their debt to society, they should have all their rights restored, including the keep and bear arms right.
 
I'm gonna put the flame suit on now. Go ahead and lay into me. Tell me how I don't care about "officer safety" or protecting the children, of which I have 3.
Click to expand...

If you're really looking to rile people up with extremist views on officer safety and "the children," I suggest contacting the people at www.vpc.org with your views.
 
Having rights restored in a state won't clear the federal prohibition against former felons possessing firearms. It is also not necessary in regaining the ability to possess firearms. The Director of ATF can give "relief from disabilities" on a case-by-case basis, restoring the right to own firearms. Unfortunately, the Clinton administration halted funding for ATF to process any applications for relief and AFAIK, there has not been a single approved application since that time.
 
I agree with what every one is saying. Talk to a lawyer and see what he says about getting your rights restored. Good Luck to you and Welcome aboard..
 
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If you were convicted in a State court, under State law, you can probably petition the Governor of your state for a full pardon with restoration of all civil rights, and expungement of your record. This is not too difficult if your offence occurred at a very youthful age, and you can demonstrate a period (usually at least 10 years) of honest living and good citizenship. If you receive such a pardon, it does restore your right to keep and bear arms - you just have to ensure that the FBI passes that information on to the Instant Check system, so that they don't deny you.

On the other hand, if your conviction was in a Federal court, under Federal law, your only option is to apply to the President for a full pardon. Not impossible, but difficult.

I agree with previous advice - lawyer up on this one. And good luck!
 
Your Constitutional Rights have NOT been denied - Just HANDICAPPED !

Guy from Pennsylvania came up last month with a problem. He went to re-new his Carry Permit in PA, which he's had for over 20 years and it was DENIED. Apparently the County Sheriff down there used to issue gun permits but that task has been taken over by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania State Police. For general info, Pennsylvania is under the control of the major Democrat party hack and anti-gun zealot Governor fast Eddie Rendell along with his political thuggery machine.

As the story goes, back in 1962, when this man was 18 years old, a gas station owner charged he and two pals with stealing four hub caps and three gallons of gas. Total value of the "crime" was less than $15.00. The other two kids were 17 year old, but this guy had just reached his 18 birthday and was considered an adult by the court. They gave him an option to plead guilty to a third degree felony (PA used to have such things?) and receive a probation or face a few months in jail on a higher charge. He was told too, that agreeing to plead guilty while taking probation the charge would be moved into a lesser category and his record could be eventually sealed by the court. The guy pleaded guilty and took the agreement .

Thereafter, this same guy became a cop and spent 20 years with the New York City Police retiring with the rank of sergeant. Currently, he works for a County school district in Pennsylvania and has 17 years service there as an adminstrator. He’s a solid law abiding citizen .

This is happening all over the United States in many areas with ex-post facto and statutes of limitations ignored or wiped out. By the way, these extra legal stooges who impose this sort of tyranny claim that citizen's rights are not being removed or taken away. The leftist stooges, lawyers and politicians employ the word “HANDICAPPEDâ€. Your constitutional rights haven't been stolen by anti-American criminal thugs . . . they've been simply "HANDICAPPEDâ€!

Since there aren't enough criminals, we'll create new ones from ancient records being fed into computerized databases. Then, with half-century old obsolete incorrect information we'll HANDICAP solid citizen's basic rights. This just keeps better doesn't it ?

:cuss: :banghead:
 
but others think you should "suffer the consequences eternally" for breaking the law, whether it was a good or bad law in the first place. I'd just hope these same people aren’t going to complain when their time comes, when this country devolves into a Police State
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to bust your chops, but I hope you are not saying that the law you broke was a "bad" law, or equating what you did with acts of disobediance against a tyranncal govt.? In your case, I would be all for restoring your gun rights, provided you have compensated the wronged parties.
 
Lawyers ...and black powder....not necessarily in that order.

http://www.dps.state.az.us/reports/criminalhistory/faq/default.asp#18

"A. A person who has been convicted of two or more felonies and whose period of probation has been completed may have any civil rights which were lost or suspended by his felony conviction restored by the judge who discharges him at the end of the term of probation.

B. Upon proper application, a person who has been discharged from probation either prior to or after adoption of this chapter may have any civil rights which were lost or suspended by his felony conviction restored by the superior court judge by whom the person was sentenced or his successors in office from the county in which he was originally convicted. The clerk of such superior court shall have the responsibility for processing the application upon request of the person involved or his attorney. The superior court shall cause a copy of the application to be served upon the county attorney.

C. If the person was convicted of a dangerous offense under section 13-604, the person may not file for the restoration of his right to possess or carry a gun or firearm. If the person was convicted of a serious offense as defined in section 13-604 the person may not file for the restoration of his right to possess or carry a gun or firearm for ten years from the date of his discharge from probation. If the person was convicted of any other felony offense, the person may not file for the restoration of his right to possess or carry a gun or firearm for two years from the date of his discharge from probation."
 
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Lawyer ... yes but do some phone book shopping. Get one that deals with Constitutional Rights. Ask the secretary that answers the phone and they can tell you. Don't bother with the divorce/injury crowd as they have long forgotten most of what you need information on.
 
Thanks for all the good advice folks. Surprised at the number of replies. I think I'll talk to a lawyer monday. I just don't want to get into a situation where I'm promised something that can't happen, and having to pay an attorney for that. But there are free consultations available from some firms, and public Legal Aid. I'll report back later and tell you guys what I find out.

Firearm disabilities are not the only reason I'm seriously considering leaving the US. I don't want to be a second class citizen forever, and that seems to be becomming a popular trend here. I can vote in some states, I've found out, but the issue nowadays is whether or not your vote will even be counted. I think everyone should be allowed to vote, because everyone is subject to the system. I'm with quite a few others though about barring murderers from firearm ownership. That just seems to make good sense to me. And perhaps they should be dead like goon suggests, but I wouldn't take that extreme position myself.

By the way, I looked at the ATF site, and the FAQ seems to make it rather plain that applications for firearm disabilities relief are not reviewed because of non-funding. I'm not at all surprised.

And Preacherman, I think you're right. I was convicted in a Federal court. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to influence or bribe the President well enough to get a pardon.

Rock Jock, I don't believe my offense should have constituted a felony, and I expressed that in court, but I still plead guilty because I was guilty. I think what I did should be illegal, but not a felony, because I didn't do any damage (financial or otherwise); this was even admitted by the prosecution.

Something else, you may or may not care about: I wasn't aware what I was doing was going to lead to having my civil rights taken away. I didn't even know what I was doing would be considered a felony. Sometimes there are consequences for things you don't realize. We're not all-knowing at 19. I'm sure many of you, if not all of you, have commited crimes without knowing it. Many of you have already admitted you don't know all the laws.

Even though my computer equipment was returned destroyed, and even though I was forced to undergo drug analysis weekly (I had no drug history at all), I was very cooperative and completed my probation successfully without any bad marks. Most people are getting ripped off by the phone company all the time, but they aren't considered criminals. It's really a strange world we live in.

I'll tell you this though, I'm not going to beg for everyone to forgive me and wallow in guilt for the rest of my life. So if you'd like to bust my chops, and have me wear some scarlett letter, find some other co-dependent "sucker". People that purport to follow the law all the time are some of worst immoral persons when the door closes to the rest of the world. I know many parents that treat their children horribly in this world, and they're non-felons. I could go on, but won't. If you can't ever give someone a second chance in life, you don't deserve one yourself. The measure you use, will be measured to use. Just remember that when you're in Hell. ;)

Third_Rail, Yes! :D

It was great to get some of this off my chest. I'm hopeful things will change for the better, for all of us.

p.s. I was convicted in Kansas, not Arizona. I just live in Arizona now. Much better place to live IMO. Incidentally, I see a lot of people carrying firearms openly here.
 
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