Never owned a firearm, maybe never will

[goon]

I hate to say it, but it is looking like you have about as much chance of legally owning guns as I have of becoming president.

In your case, I am wondering if it wouldn't be a not too bad idea to work for a couple years and bank as much money as possible, then relocate the third world nation of your choice.
People may call me a nut (no argument here), but I have considered it myself. Some of the first european immigrants to come to our nation were people who were looking to exercise their rights without being bothered by an out of control government. I don't really see the difference between your position and theirs. I haven't been pushed to that point myself but I have entertained the idea. I feel that left unchecked, our government will eventually get to the point where our rights will all ignored. In other words, in 20 years we all may be in your position.

Hell, they are already started down that path. I do vote, write and email my reps, and otherwise do what I can where I can, but I fear that it already may be too late to stop the runaway train that is coming at us. (I'll go polish my tinfoil hat after I finish this post.)

In your situation, maybe dropping yourself in the middle of Africa somewhere and becoming a warlord isn't a half bad idea.

 

[Justin]

A couple of tangentially related questions:

Wasn't Kevin Mitnik (sp?) busted for doing essentially the same thing? Was he convicted of a felony? Have his rights been restored since then?

 

[Moopheus]

You're probably right goon. But I guess I have an obligation to check out my options anyway, even if I don't really have any. If I really did though, someone would've been able to tell me by now, wouldn't they?

Kevin Mitnick and I were convicted of exactly the same thing, last I checked. He served time in prison though, I didn't. But that was probably because he plead not guilty, precluding him from the reduction in sentencing.

Oh well. I'll see what I find out Monday. Black powder firearms starting to look attractive...

Hey, at least I can have an airgun collection. I can pretend.

Not much stopping power there though, huh? Haha. Maybe this would help a bit.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

One word (actually three):

Ruger Old Army.

 

[armoredman]

I am a Correctional Sergeant here in AZ, and I do know it is nigh impossible to get the right to keep and bear returned after a felony, but it HAS BEEN DONE. Do try - it can't hurt. Until that time, blackpowder firearms are still prohibited, as they are designated a firearm in AZ, even if they are not by the Feds. Possess a BP revolver and get pulled over, you will get time. See an attorney, and find out for yourself about rights restoral.
BTW, you may not posess a firearm or ammunition, even in passing - handling a firearm is an automatic 5 years in Club Fed. Also applies to a single round of ammo. Sorry.
I will also state that I have met many inmates in my time here, and there are a few I would not worry a bit if they were standing behind me with a loaded weapon. Others I wouldn't trust with a staple....

 

[Moopheus]

Armored man, thanks for the info. Doesn't bode too well for me then. :/

BTW, you may not posess a firearm or ammunition, even in passing - handling a firearm is an automatic 5 years in Club Fed.

Would that mean if my wife or girlfriend owned a gun (and lived with me) I'd be guilty of breaking the law? Or if I was with a friend, and he was pulled over with a legally owned gun in his glove comparment, I'd be in trouble? And so technically, if I was handling guns in a gunstore, I'd also be doing something illegal, right?

What a grand land I live in that makes things like this possible.

I guess I'd better cross my fingers that some career criminal doesn't target me someday, because I'll pretty much be out of luck. I'm not a big guy either; far from it.

 

[Ryder]

A firearm improves the odds of being able to defend yourself and others but it's no absolute guarantee of safety. Many other things can improve your odds. If I were you I'd probably invest in several good claw hammers to sprinkle around the house. You can still excercise your right to carpentry?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I'll tell you this though, I'm not going to beg for everyone to forgive me and wallow in guilt for the rest of my life. So if you'd like to bust my chops, and have me wear some scarlett letter, find some other co-dependent "sucker". People that purport to follow the law all the time are some of worst immoral persons when the door closes to the rest of the world. I know many parents that treat their children horribly in this world, and they're non-felons. I could go on, but won't. If you can't ever give someone a second chance in life, you don't deserve one yourself. The measure you use, will be measured to use. Just remember that when you're in Hell.

Excuse me?

What brought that little diatribe on? I just re-read this entire thread, and I didn't see a single reponse in which anyone dumped on you or treated you like a second class citizen. All the responses were civil and addressed to providing information relevent to your situation.

Your best -- possibly your only -- recourse is to apply to the President for a full pardon. Presidents do this. There was a mini-scandal right at the end of Klinton's presidency over a number of rather "unsavory" characters who received Presidential pardons. I don't have any idea what the odds are, but it would seem to me that for a non-violent, non-harmful prank at the age of 19 this President just might see his way to laying a bit of that compassionate conservatism on you.

But do consult an attorney. And when you go to see one, check your attitude at the door. There are no guarantees in the lawyer business. I am not a lawyer, but I am in a profession. The only thing we have to sell is our time, so if you engage an attorney, that's what you are paying for. Pick one who feels right to you, hope the result is favorable, but accept the reality that if the man (or woman) expends time on your behalf, they deserve to be paid. If they manage to achieve the hoped-for result, so much the better. However, keep in mind that you are bringing them a situation that many here have already told you is nigh unto hopeless, so if they can't deliver, you should not hold it against them.

 

[Majic]

You talk of immigrating to another country, but my friend that felony record will follow you not just disappear as you leave these shores. Your new host country will want to know about you before allowing you to enter and you may find that it is true that we here have the most lax laws on firearms ownership.
Your admission of hacking the phone company was taken at face value. The actions of the hacking could be just simple maliciousness or a vehicle for violence. Then your little rant on what some people may think makes me sit back and wonder. You made a mistake over 10 years ago, but it still upsets you today.
My advice is to get control of your thoughts and consult a lawyer who deals in firearm laws.

 

[Moopheus]

Sorry Hawkmoon, I guess my diatribe was sort of a pre-emptive strike. As you can see, certain NWO people are moving in "for the kill". If my statements didn't apply to you, you shouldn't be offended by them.

So you think I have an attitude? I probably do, I'm human after all, not an android. I forsee this country going into the toilet, and I'm your future. You're all going to be wearing name tags eventually, or implanted with fun little RDIF ones.

I realize you're just trying to be helpful though, and offer some consolation, and I thank you for that.

If you think I have any chance of getting a Presidential pardon, you must have a lot more money than I have. I agree - almost anything is possible with the holy dollar in this country. That's another reason I plan to get out. It's diseased and spiritually bankrupt.

I have friends abroad who are telling me I'd better get out while I still can. It's very eerie. You know it's bad when people in other countries pity you for being an American.

If an attorney told me up front that there's little chance he could help me, but he'd try, I wouldn't hold it against him if nothing favorable happened and I chose to proceed. You imply I'm unreasonable, but I assure you, I'm a reasonable person that just doesn't enjoy being ripped off.

I just expect honesty from people. And especially from our government.

Do you really think America is a place of laws? It's not, you know. It's a place of people. It's who you know, and what you own, that's all. And if you control the printing of money, even better.

Then your little rant on what some people may think makes me sit back and wonder. You made a mistake over 10 years ago, but it still upsets you today.

It makes you wonder about what Majic, that I'm truly a dangerous person? Yes, my thoughts are destructive and frightening, because that part of me is still free. Would you like to take that away from me as well? Even my health is poor. I'm disabled with two bad legs (and I'm even blind in one eye). America hasn't helped me with that. Health care is also going down the tubes. It's comforting to believe our justice system is pure and white as snow, but I'm afraid I've seen the other side of that already. I'm glad I experienced it for myself actually. I did what I was told to avoid further trouble. I go out of my way to obey the law now, even if some laws are rotten and useless. I'm also very careful who I associate with. And of course the mistake I made 10 years ago still upsets me today. Wouldn't it upset you? What's your point exactly? That you're a better citizen than I am?

--

As an aside, I'd like to thank Oleg Volk for his great work on the web even though he probably won't read this. We met once through a mutual acquaintance about two or three years ago (Ris).

 

[Justin]

Kevin Mitnick and I were convicted of exactly the same thing, last I checked. He served time in prison though, I didn't. But that was probably because he plead not guilty, precluding him from the reduction in sentencing.

Hmmm. I'd be curious to know what his take on this would be. I have no idea as to what his political leaning is.

 

[RevDisk]

Hmmm. I'd be curious to know what his take on this would be. I have no idea as to what his political leaning is.

I'll ask him.

I had a chance to hang out with him at Defcon a few years back. From what I gathered, pseudo small L liberation leanings. Such as actually being freedom, liberty and rights are important. Nice guy. He didn't mind doing time, but he did object to some of the things the government did that were rather shady. Such as actually being able to get a trial.

 

[Archer]

I just expect honesty from people.

Well then !

I began reading this thread with an open mind and some sympathy for your situation.

As I read on, I developed a distinctly negative reaction to your "preemptive strike" and other elements of your post.

Your attitude, (and BOY do you have one !) expressed through your diatribe and complaints about where you live, has dissolved any sympathy I might have for your situation.

Get a lawyer. Quit whining.

I would, by the way, suggest you might not want to commit another felony by "trying to purchase a firearm in my state, to see what happens".

Oh, and if you really think there's someplace outside this country that's better to live, good luck, sport.

I have spent time in just over forty countries around this little bit of cosmic debris we live on, and I imagine you probably need a dose of the same to get a grip on reality.

(By the way, I can't imagine you don't already know that you can not even visit, much less move to, Canada and many other first-world countries these days if you are a convicted felon- they'll put you right back on the plane you came off. Hell, even a DUI will keep you out of Canada.).

 

[Majic]

My point is that you made the mistake. Then you declare that you won't beg anyone for anthing, but if they don't see it your way then you will see them in hell. That sure is a great way to solict honest help from people.
Now I'm sorry your disabilities are creating a hardship on your life, but your disposition is something that can be fixed. With your resentment and negativity that you quickly show do you think it's wise for you to own a firearm? If you snap at people while asking for help on the internet then how will you handle face to face confrontations when armed?

 

[OpenRoad]

Majic, I guess you didn't notice the winking smily he wrote. Not sure what you're all offended about anyways, perhaps you're just bored.

If anybody needs to be "snapped at over the internet", it's you for being annoying.

 

[Intune]

C'mon now. Let's not get this thread closed due to sniping.

Moo, some hard knocks. Keep yer chin up. We are in charge of our attitude, it's one of the only things we actually do have control of in life. Stay positive and remain hopeful. Good luck and welcome aboard THR.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Sorry Hawkmoon, I guess my diatribe was sort of a pre-emptive strike. As you can see, certain NWO people are moving in "for the kill". If my statements didn't apply to you, you shouldn't be offended by them.

I'm sorry, but I cannot see that anyone is "moving in for the kill." Where in this thread do YOU see that?

If you think I have any chance of getting a Presidential pardon, you must have a lot more money than I have. I agree - almost anything is possible with the holy dollar in this country. That's another reason I plan to get out. It's diseased and spiritually bankrupt.

To be candid, I am rather certain that you probably have a lot more money than I have. It wouldn't take much, I assure you. Money certainly worked miracles in the Clinton White House. Dunno if GWB is as corrupt as Slick Willie, but I'd doubt it. I never suggested that a Presidential pardon would be a slam dunk, but if you don't ask then you have zero chance, correct? What have you got to lose? You could hire an attorney to put together a request, or you could do it yourself and all you risk is a few minutes/hours of your time and a postage stamp. The stakes are a lot higher than just a RKBA. If you are serious about bailing out, then you really need to get that record expunged. I recently applied for a tourist visa to just VISIT a foreign country that might be a nice place for expatriate Americans. I had to get a complete police records check certified by my state's department of state police just to apply. Even though I'm "clean" I still haven't seen the visa. If you wish to emigrate legally, you NEED to pursue that pardon.

 

[Moopheus]

Well then !

I began reading this thread with an open mind and some sympathy for your situation.

First of all, I thought I made it clear, that I wasn't looking for sympathy. Did you miss that?

As I read on, I developed a distinctly negative reaction to your "preemptive strike" and other elements of your post.

I'm glad for you, because it doesn't bother me at all that you have trouble dealing with your emotional reactions to that mini-rant. If I touched a nerve, because it reflected you somehow, I'm sorry. I'm not going to cater to your tastes and viewpoints though.

Your attitude, (and BOY do you have one !) expressed through your diatribe and complaints about where you live, has dissolved any sympathy I might have for your situation.

Get a lawyer. Quit whining.

I want to make this perfectly clear to you Mr. Archer. I'm not interested in help from people like you. Your idea of help is being condescending and a self-righteous jack%%%. Someone of your kind wouldn't help me if I was keeled over and dying, so I don't have to worry about whether you're my pal or not.

For your information, I just contacted a lawyer 15 minutes ago before I read your message. So I'd say you need to get a grip, and maybe take your "I'm a real man" attitude elsewhere. Because I can assure, I'm more man than you'll ever be, or ever was.

I would, by the way, suggest you might not want to commit another felony by "trying to purchase a firearm in my state, to see what happens".

Others have already pointed that out, and done so in a much more civilized way. You already missed your opportunity. I agree, it's probably not a good idea in retrospect. Let's just hope that your background check doesn't fail one day, shall we?

Oh, and if you really think there's someplace outside this country that's better to live, good luck, sport.

Oh, I'd say there is.

I have spent time in just over forty countries around this little bit of cosmic debris we live on, and I imagine you probably need a dose of the same to get a grip on reality.

In the military, I take it? I wouldn't go live in another country to kill people, so perhaps I'm different than you. If hate is your path - it distorts your view of other cultures.

(By the way, I can't imagine you don't already know that you can not even visit, much less move to, Canada and many other first-world countries these days if you are a convicted felon- they'll put you right back on the plane you came off. Hell, even a DUI will keep you out of Canada.).

I had heard of this before, but your information will have to be double-checked and cross-checked as I don't believe you're a trustworthy source of information from my brief interaction with you. (Heck, I think I might apply for Canadian citizenship today).

By the way, my little rant about "Hell" was not meant to be taken 100% seriously. I don't even believe in hell, except on earth.

I would really rather not converse with you again Archer. Hopefully you can respect my wishes.

 

[Moopheus]

You're right Hawkmoon, I should definitely give it a try. That's what I'm initiating now. Don't know until you try.

Intune, thanks for the encouragment. I will keep my hope alive.

 

[Piney]

I think you all are just dealing with a troll and he's winning.

 

[Archer]

Piney,

I had the same suspicion, and the "response" confirms it.

 

[Moopheus]

I didn't come here to generate tall tales Archer, or goof around. Please stop trying to smear me.

You go your way, I'll go mine.

By the way, you may wish to visit the Canadian immigration site to educate yourself. It's not so cut and dry as you say.

For one thing, a crime here has to be a crime in Canada. And if the penalty would be less there, it's converted to their standards, not ours. You can still obtain permanent citizenship with past criminal activity. Generally, if 10 years have past, and you've shown marked rehabilitation since the commision of the crime, you are considered for admission. I fit in that bracket fairly well.

You see, Canadians are at least reasonable people. Not everyone follows the American model of eternal punishment, as you suggest.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'm soooo glad you posted this...

Today my father watched a crime program (thankfully with my semi-anti mother). This was a man that was the first person approached by two boys, Parker and Tulloch, who later went on to murder two Dartmouth professors, Susanne and Half Zantop. He told his story to the crime program that really scared some common sense into my mother.

This man was home alone with his young son when he heard "banging" on his door. The banging was quite loud and unusal for a stranger and not anything like "knocking" so he grabbed his Glock and approached the door. He saw the two boys and had his Glock behind his back and slowly brought it near the front -- not quite -- but enough for one of the boys to see it. They stopped talking for a moment and changed their stories saying they "needed help." "Go back to the car and I'll call for you," he said. After they left, he locked the door and went to the phone but it was dead. They cut the phone line. When he went to the window, they were leaving. Obviously, he called the police and told them about the two. They left his house and went to the home of Susanne and Half Zantop -- who did let them in -- and murdered them both viciously with knives.

So "never owned a gun, never will," I'm a woman. I've seen too many cases where women had guns and lived and others where they didn't and died a horrible death -- many with their children or in front of their children. I'll keep mine on my hips at home. To me owning a gun is like driving a car. You might think you're safe but you'd be an idiot not to wear a safety belt. Just my thought....

Laura

 

[Moopheus]

What a sad and horrible incident. Reminds me of some of the nightmares I have.

I have this rule of never opening the door for strangers. I think it's served me well. I make an exception with children sometimes (of course, they're usually just trying to sell me something).

If I was a woman, I would definitely have a firearm, even if was illegal to do so. I don't blame you.

Not sure if you read the whole thread, but I wasn't saying I'm against firearms. Far from it.

 

[Mr Kablammo]

Even if you are not able to purchase/own any firearms you can still join the NRA, GOA, JPFO, etc and know that your 'paying dues' will help to preserve the 2nd Amendment. I was a member of the NRA about a year before I bought my first gun.