New Acquisition Bulgarian Makarov - Should be C&R But Isn't

[Capybara]

This is my latest acquisition, a very nice 1990 Circle 10 Bulgarian Makarov. I cannot figure out why the Russian Military and the E. German Maks are the only ones that the ATF considers C&R, these should be as well. I find the whole satellite Soviet territory thing to be just as compelling from the Bulgarian POV as from the East German POV but from what I hear, very little chance of anything new being added to the ATFs list under the current administration. So in my mind, this is definitely a C&R gun, it's just that the ATF doesn't concur.

Anyway, bought this in December on the day after Christmas from a very nice Calgunner, picked it up out of jail on January 1st so this is literally a New Year gun. It came with two mags, a rubber grip that is ugly but has the thumb shelf and the original leather holster. Other than a little holster wear, the bore is immaculate and overall the pistol is in great shape. Looking forward to putting some rounds downrange with it. I have the P64 and the CZ82 also but out of all three, this one is the best looking and balances the best IMHO. It will be interesting to shoot all three in a row to see what shoots best. I really enjoy shooting the P64 and the CZ82 so it will be interesting to see how this feels in comparison.

I always wanted a Makarov and a Tokarev, now I have both. On to the next boxes on the C&R handgun list.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I should think it's the 1990 that gums the works.

If they made these until then - there's your problem.

Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or
Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or
Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
[18 U.S.C 27 CFR 478.11]

That's a pretty little pistol there.


Todd.

 

[Mauserguy]

Regardless of the C&R status, Maks are great guns and your gun appears to be a fine specimen. I love the purple accents that sometimes appear on Maks. As a shooter, the only potential issue I can find with them is the future availability of ammo. They are good guns. You have a winner there.
Mauserguy

 

[Capybara]

Thanks guys. I agree ApacheCo Todd except that my CZ82 was also made in 1990 and it is C&R. I can't see how it is any more historically significant than the Bulgarian and Chinese Maks but maybe there is history that I don't know about the CZ82?

 

[Capybara]

Esoteric question for Mak owners. This one came with a set of black rubber grips with a thumb shelf and the stock grips you see in the picture above. Removing the black rubber grips to mount the red stock ones, the retaining screw (slotted screw) seemed to fit the rubber grips perfectly. But when I use the same screw to try to affix the red grips above, the screw that was used with the black grips doesn't seem quite long enough, no matter how hard I press with the screwdriver, the threads never make it to the frame.

Anyone know the size/length and thread pitch I should be looking for to affix the stock red grips above for when I go to the hardware store?

 

[sixgunner455]

The grip screw for the aftermarket grip is a different length, and usually head size as well. I don't know the pitch, but it is the same as the aftermarket grip screw you already have. Used to be a dedicated makarov site you could have ordered the exact factory screw for it, but they shut down. I'd try one of the online sites for the correct screw.

About ammo - it is easy to load for the 9x18 makarov round. If you cannot find brass for it, make some out of fired 9x19 parabellum brass. Unlike the .380 ACP, the makarov and parabellum case heads are the same size (parabellum is a tapered case, makarov straight wall), just needs a trim to the correct length and then load up a .380 level load with a 90 or 95 grain Makarov-diameter bullet. Figure out a way to mark the modified cases - it's annoying when you reload a trimmed (or original) makarov case for the parabellum round and get a round that won't fire in the parabellum pistol because it's too short to headspace.

 

[lincen]

You can find the proper fluted grip screw on Ebay. I think it is an M5 or other standard metric size bolt but you have to be sure it is not too long as it will lock the magazine in place.

As to the CZ 82, they were made in Czechoslovakia which no longer exists as a nation. It is now Slovakia and the Czech Republic, two separate countries.

 

[cluttonfred]

I am not quite sure I understand why these "should be C&R" if they are so recent. Anybody?

 

[Devonai]

it's annoying when you reload a trimmed (or original) makarov case for the parabellum round and get a round that won't fire in the parabellum pistol because it's too short to headspace.

I also find exploding pistols annoying.

 

[bannockburn]

Capybara

Congrats on starting the New Year off right with a nice looking Bulgarian Mak!

 

[Capybara]

With some research, discovered that the original grip screw isn't something you are going to find at the hardware store. Tapered .315 with a weird head. Luckily all of the parts houses have them and Liberty Tree Collectors too. https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2856&idcategory=52

As far as C&R status, if you ever hold and shoot a Russian milsurp or an E. German, then this one, they are pretty much identical. The only reason the Bulgarian version exists is because they were a puppet government of the USSR, which to me gives it enough historical value to be declared C&R. My Radom P64 is modern and is C&R. Poland is still intact. It doesn't matter though, the ATF has not added any guns to their list since 2010 and under this administration, I don't see them adding any more.

 

[sixgunner455]

I also find exploding pistols annoying.

LOL! Let me explain that a little better, Devonai - it was late when I was typing that.

If you size a Makarov case in a Parabellum die, you get a case that looks just like a Parabellum case sized in the same die - tapered case with the correct size case head that will hold a .355-.356" Parabellum bullet (as opposed to the .363" Makarov bullet) and look almost perfect doing it, but because the Makarov case is 1mm shorter than the Parabellum case, when you chamber it, the case mouth will not headspace in the chamber. The case case is tapered in this situation, so it will chamber in the Parabellum chamber, but either the case will simply float in the chamber and not give enough resistance to the firing pin to go off (because it will move forward from the firing pin impact instead of setting off the primer), or the case mouth will reach the end of the chamber, but then it will be too far forward for the firing pin to get a good strike and set it off.

That's probably a good thing, as bad stuff might result if a case that far out of spec travels that far back as it is firing, but it is annoying to spend time carefully reloading and then have one of the rounds not go off because I didn't notice the case length discrepancy. It is very easy for the Makarov cases to get mixed up with the Parabellum cases - they have the same size case heads, are nearly the same length, and therefore fit through the same case sorting holes. Visual checks of the case heads are usually required to tell them apart, hence my advice to mark modified Parabellum cases in some way to differentiate them from normal Parabellum cases should someone choose to reload for the Makarov by shortening Parabellum cases.

 

[Devonai]

Gotcha, I just couldn't resist the snarky comment.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Pearce makes a rubber replacement grip for the maks which is pretty popular - I find that it makes the gun much easier to shoot.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&fie...ode=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20

Note that the provided screw is sometimes a bit long, and if fully tightened, it can interfere with the magazine. It's easy enough to shorten it though. I just backed mine off half a turn and it's stayed put for years.

 

[wally]

If you size a Makarov case in a Parabellum die, you get a case that looks just like a Parabellum case sized in the same die - tapered case with the correct size case head that will hold a .355-.356" Parabellum bullet (as opposed to the .363" Makarov bullet) and look almost perfect doing it, but because the Makarov case is 1mm shorter than the Parabellum case, when you chamber it, the case mouth will not headspace in the chamber. The case case is tapered in this situation, so it will chamber in the Parabellum chamber, but either the case will simply float in the chamber and not give enough resistance to the firing pin to go off (because it will move forward from the firing pin impact instead of setting off the primer), or the case mouth will reach the end of the chamber, but then it will be too far forward for the firing pin to get a good strike and set it off.

Perfectly good theory, but in practice I've never had an issue firing 9mm Parabellum loads in .380 cases that have slipped through into my reloading pipeline and these are 1mm shorter than 9mm Mak cases. The 9mm case taper and modern extractors combine to do the job of headspace and let the round fire just fine. I'm sure a few Mak cases have slipped through over the years, but never enough of them for me to notice since most 9mm Mak empties at our club are Berdan primed steel cased.

 

[ulflyer]

Several years ago I got all carried away with the Maks and owned several of Bulgarians, Russians, and E.Germans. Eventually I moved on to other stuff and sold all except the E.Ger. because it was valued just a bit more.

The Bulgarians are the ones I shot most, all functioned flawlessly, and would call them just as good as the E.German.

As best as I can remember, the Bulgarians were all "Circle 10" with the date "60 or thereabouts near the 10 mark. I bought them with my C&R Lic.

Does yours have a date near the "Circle 10"? Somehow, without researching, I just don't believe they made them much beyond 1960. Thus, they should be C&R.

Edited to add: Have done a bit of quick researching and come up with
several articles on the Bulgarian that might interest you. The third one shows a nice parts diagram. Nowhere did I come across anything
to support my theory that they are C&R and after looking at my E.German I see the date of "61 on it; thus, I am mistaken to think
the Bulgarians were dated. I shot mostly Chinese made stuff as that was readily available several years ago at the hefty price of $7 a box!
None ever failed. I did find a couple boxes of Hornady HP and used that for carry purposes.

http://www.milesfortis.com/dunn/makarov.htm
http://www.courter.org/guns/handguns/bulgmakarov.html
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/makarov/
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10992590

 

[lincen]

To tell when a Bulgarian Makarov was manufactured, add 60 to the two numbers after the two letters in the serial number. They made Makarovs as late as 1999. I have a Bulgarian made Miltex special edition dated 1999.

 

[ulflyer]

Didn't the Miltex marked one come along after the Soviet Union disintegrated? Before that
I think they might have been the "circle 10"......lot of guesswork here....certainly no expert on this subject. Just love the guns!

 

[sixgunner455]

Perfectly good theory, but in practice I've never had an issue firing 9mm Parabellum loads in .380 cases that have slipped through into my reloading pipeline and these are 1mm shorter than 9mm Mak cases. The 9mm case taper and modern extractors combine to do the job of headspace and let the round fire just fine. I'm sure a few Mak cases have slipped through over the years, but never enough of them for me to notice since most 9mm Mak empties at our club are Berdan primed steel cased

Interesting, Wally. I've had makarov cases that were loaded through parabellum dies act just as described in my CZ75B SA.

 

[lincen]

You are right, the Miltex does not have the circle 10 on it as well as the Bulgarian Arsenal commercial Makarov that were made in the mid to late 1990's. One man told me a couple years ago when I asked why some Makarovs are C&R and others are not, "Well it is the US government, it does not need to make sense."

 

[Pilot]

Great score! I've been a Mak fans since they started coming in with volume in the early 90's. My two surplus "Circle 10" Bulgies are actually my favorites, and I carry one of them. The E.G. is the prettiest though. My recent acquisition of a Polish P-83 has awakened my interest in the 9MM Mak round, and guns that use it like the PM.

 

[agtman]

For the Mak Experts

Just curious about the minty E.German Mak I still have in a box somewhere in my collection. I had a Bulgarian Mak for a short time in the early 2000s but sold it to fund a CZ 82. I have about 8 of the Mak mags stored with the E.G. Mak. What is it worth these days?

 

[lincen]

Near mint EG Makarovs sell for a minimum of $400-$450 and many go for more depending on the extras.

 

[JR47]

C&R guns are generally 50+ years old, out of production, or have a real historical value. A 1992 Makarov is simply not historically significant, is obviously not 50 years old, and IIRC, they are still being made, just not imported.

E. German Makarovs, and actual MILITARY Makarovs from the Soviet Union usually meet the criterion for C&R. The Chinese variant does not. Nor do newly manufactured M1 Garands, no matter how perfectly they mirror WWII variants.

 

[il.bill]

Thanks guys. I agree ApacheCo Todd except that my CZ82 was also made in 1990 and it is C&R. I can't see how it is any more historically significant than the Bulgarian and Chinese Maks but maybe there is history that I don't know about the CZ82?

What a nice way to end the last year and start up the new one - congrats on a sweet looking pistol! I too am rather fond of the 9x18mm cartridge, probably because I am shooting it from a CZ82 or Russian Makarov.

I read in numerous places on the internet (so you KNOW it must be true) that the CZ82 is C&R eligible because the curator of a legitimate museum (a couple of sources say it came from the military museum at West Point!) wrote a letter to the BATFE asking that the CZ82 be certified on the C&R eligible list due to its 'historical significance'.

What that actually entails, I do not know. If it was because Czechoslovakia no longer exists as a country, why not all the other firearms made there by CZ, or anything from the former Yugoslavia? I suspect it all has to do with a curator from a recognized museum taking the time to write the letter at the right time for ATF approval.