New Ar needs some goodies!

[Roadwild17]

OK fellas,
I just ordered my RRA Elite CAR A4 w/ Surefire M85 Rail & Chrome Lined Barrel. I need some suggestions to get it “ninjaed” out. I was thinking of the IOR/Valdada 3x25 Illuminated Tactical Scope but after that I’m kind of at a lost, any ideas will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gavin.

 

[Lonestar.45]

Personally, I'd pick up about 2-3 cases of .223 and a lot of extra mags, and maybe a 3pt sling before any goodies. But that's just me.

 

[Rexrider]

Ammo and magazines. Lots of ammo and magazines. The rifle won't work without them.

Learn to shoot with the iron sights first. Then go to a scope if you desire one.

Seriously, learn to shoot the thing first. You may find out you don't need a bunch of stuff hanging off of it. You also need to think about what you are using it for. In close home defense? Then the Surefire makes sense but not the scope. Longer ranges? Then a good scope is very handy to have but what are you going to use the light for? Also, be wary of any sighting system that uses batteries. At least make sure you have backup iron sights and you know how to use them.

This is of course just my opinion. My preferrence is KISS.

 

[mack69]

+1 Rexrider.....

 

[Rob1035]

If I had the spare cash to pick up an AR, I'd have the gun, about 10 mags, a case or two of quality ammo, and a weekend at one of the many quality training facilities across the nation.

Then, after I knew better what I wanted, I'd look into mods.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

Yup, same as the rest here. Get several thousand rounds of good ammo. Then, for what you were going to spend tricking it out with things that may or may not work, and will most likely get in the way more than help, you could attend a reputable school and learn how to run that thing like a champ. It's fun to look at a rifle that a ninja would be proud of, but it's more fun to look in the mirror and see a man who's achieved a swift and accurate mastery of his rifle.

If you're planning on ignoring all the advice given, then I would at least encourage you to decide what the role of the rifle is going to be before bolting things on.

 

[GoRon]

Here is the set up I have. RRA CAR A4 with midlength gas system. I do not have the detachable carry handle. The optic is an EOTech 512.65 unmagnified holographic sight. The BUIS (back up iron sight) is a GG@G flip up with windage adjustment but not elevation. Being a carbine this rifle is set up for 200 yrds and under. With the EOTech or irons it can be accurate and effective beyond that for sure, but not the best tool for that job. The way my gun is set up the irons co-witness through the sight. If the batteries die or the sight fails the irons are good to go without removing the optic.

I find myself shooting a lot with the sight turned off using irons only. Most of my shooting is at a 100yrd range and a plinking pit. It is good to be able to shoot with irons only, a necessary skill in my opinion. I was in an informal tactical rifle match this last weekend. Using my EOTech I placed second overall behind someone using irons only. Irons are not a disadvantage as much as optics are an advantage. A good rifleman with irons beats a fair rifleman with optics.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I think the advice to buy mags and ammo and shoot it first is good advice. Even if you just enjoy owning a ninja-AR, you'll still find it useful since it will give you an idea of which direction you want to modify the AR. You'll also end up with better gear because I guarantee you in the six months or a year you spend learning the rifle, you will see new gear come out that is shiny and magic and will make half of the gear you would buy now obsolete anyway.

 

[Icewolf]

If you are dead set on the IOR scope then I would suggest backup iron sights (if the ar is a flat top) and a sling. Personally, I own/built 4 ARs and I have a Leupold on the 20" flat top and an Aimpoint on the M-4 with backup sights. The other 2 have only their iron sights.

The more I shoot my ARs the more I like less and less hanging off them. MUCH cheaper too.

 

[agtman]

Agree with the previously mentioned priorities:

1) lots of ammo to train with;

2) mags that work without a hitch in your rifle. (How many is enough? For starters, I'd say at least 10 mil-spec 30-rd mags, and several 20-rounders too) Shoot enough rounds through them to know that they're reliable;

3) Always work the iron sights/BUIS into your practice or training routine, but I'd plan on a CCO before a scope (you can always get a sniper scope later). My preference is an Aimpoint, but others prefer the EOTechs and ACOGs.

 

[355sigfan]

OK fellas,
I just ordered my RRA Elite CAR A4 w/ Surefire M85 Rail & Chrome Lined Barrel. I need some suggestions to get it “ninjaed” out. I was thinking of the IOR/Valdada 3x25 Illuminated Tactical Scope but after that I’m kind of at a lost, any ideas will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gavin.[/QUOTE

For optics I like the Eotech. The magnified optics are ok at medium range but they suck up close. I have 2 optics for my Colt an Eotech with a GG&G throw lever and a TA31 ACOG on a larux mount. But This is expensize. The new S&B shot dot (1.1-4 power) scope is awsome with nearly the speed of a dot sight up close and the precision of a 4 power scope but its large and costs 2000 bucks. A cheaper option to consider would be a Leapold 1.5 -5 Mark 3 with an illuminated circle dot rectical I have one on an AR10 carbine and it works well as a general purpose sight. The Trijicon 1.25-4 power Accucam with the red triangle is a good general purpose scope as well. But all you really need on a 223 for most situations is a good 1 power red dot like the Eotech or the Aimpoint.

I also think you should look at getting a weapon mounted light. I started with a Surefire Millenium B 500 lumin model and it was great very bright but it was also heavy. I sold it then got a Surefire rail system and put a M6 light laser combo I had on the gun with a pressure pad. I also got a vertical foregrip. I like it better now overall.

Don't forget BUIS (back up iron sights.) there are lots of good options I prefer flip up sights to the fixed ones. Check out AR15.com for all kinds of optics quesitons.

Also get a good sling. I prefer the single point tac slings but there are other good choices. I also have a buttstock mag pouch from the tactical taylor on my gun its an easy way to carry a spare mag.
Pat

 

[chopinbloc]

i'll second most of the above, especially mags and ammo. if you want to "ninja" your rifle that means you plan on spending a decent bit of cash, right? i can't say enough good things about trijicon's products. i have their reflex II with 4moa dot on my m16 and i'll be putting it on my ar when i get home. i guess you have to ask yourself if you intend on the modifications to have some practical value or if you are doing it purely for asthetic reasons. if you want to keep even a little practicality you'll want to be as simple as possible. iron sights are mandatory, collimator type sights might be a good idea, scopes are very limited in their use, white light might be a good idea and a buttstock mag pouch has some utility, most other options don't hold alot of practical value.

and last: DO NOT TRUST YOUR LIFE TO BATTERIES.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

Well, virtually everyone has told you to get ammo and magazines. Can't argue with that. Get plenty of them.


You've spent quite a bit on that rig, and the IOR is going to add a lot more. I figure money isn't a major issue with you. That being said, one of the very best things you can do is take a tactical carbine course from a nationally respected instructor. It can cost anywhere from $400-$1200 (maybe more depending), and ranges from 1 day classes, to 3 or even 5. You'll shoot over 1,000 rounds, learn drills, learn to shoot it in all different positions, learn how to hold it, learn how to handle it, learn how to present it, learn to shoot multiple targets quickly at various ranges, jam clearance.....The whole 9 yards. After that, your rifle and YOU will become a weapon.


Everyone that's ever taken such courses have said that you should spend 2x as much on training than you do on equipment. Also, after taking these classes, people change their rifle configuration a little bit. They see what really works and what doesn't. Everything works at the range sitting at a bench....not everything works well for when you need it.

 

[355sigfan]

Well, virtually everyone has told you to get ammo and magazines. Can't argue with that. Get plenty of them.


You've spent quite a bit on that rig, and the IOR is going to add a lot more. I figure money isn't a major issue with you. That being said, one of the very best things you can do is take a tactical carbine course from a nationally respected instructor. It can cost anywhere from $400-$1200 (maybe more depending), and ranges from 1 day classes, to 3 or even 5. You'll shoot over 1,000 rounds, learn drills, learn to shoot it in all different positions, learn how to hold it, learn how to handle it, learn how to present it, learn to shoot multiple targets quickly at various ranges, jam clearance.....The whole 9 yards. After that, your rifle and YOU will become a weapon.


Everyone that's ever taken such courses have said that you should spend 2x as much on training than you do on equipment. Also, after taking these classes, people change their rifle configuration a little bit. They see what really works and what doesn't. Everything works at the range sitting at a bench....not everything works well for when you need it.

I totally agree and feel stupid for not mentioning it myself. Training is far more important than toys.
Pat

 

[Roadwild17]

Ok guys,

I probably should have placed this first, I already have a colt with about 25 different mags (20-40 rds) and a drum, all of which work fine with the colt but have yet to been introduced to the RRA. Me and some friends like to go out and play weekend warrior (ninja planker ). I’m already saving for some training but haven’t found a place yet, anyone have any sources where I can find some excellent training.

Money is a huge option; I just like the nice things, so I don’t want to waste money on ANYTHING that isn’t going to be worth it. In the real world the gun will be a HD gun when it’s not playing on the weekends. The ranges the gun would be used for would be from 3ft down the hall to about to about 250 yards to hit that old 5gal bucket.

I’m not crazy about forward vertical grips and I’m pretty sure a light will find its way on the gun in the near future (after the 12 and a half years I have to wait for the gun:banghead: ). Other than that optics are going to be the biggest concern, the aim point or the EOTech are starting to look nice but the whole batteries thing is a little,,, uneasy to me.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

I've built a few kit AR's. They are good.. But I also got an LE Colt rifle with an Aimpoint. Go straight to the best, and leave the experimentation for the range gun as to price/performance/value.


Colt is my #1 choice. A #2 would be either LMT which is the closest thing to a Colt, or for a complete out of the box - I'd say RRA. Bushmaster 3rd or 4th.

 

[355sigfan]

Ok guys,

I probably should have placed this first, I already have a colt with about 25 different mags (20-40 rds) and a drum, all of which work fine with the colt but have yet to been introduced to the RRA. Me and some friends like to go out and play weekend warrior (ninja planker ). I’m already saving for some training but haven’t found a place yet, anyone have any sources where I can find some excellent training.

Money is a huge option; I just like the nice things, so I don’t want to waste money on ANYTHING that isn’t going to be worth it. In the real world the gun will be a HD gun when it’s not playing on the weekends. The ranges the gun would be used for would be from 3ft down the hall to about to about 250 yards to hit that old 5gal bucket.

I’m not crazy about forward vertical grips and I’m pretty sure a light will find its way on the gun in the near future (after the 12 and a half years I have to wait for the gun:banghead: ). Other than that optics are going to be the biggest concern, the aim point or the EOTech are starting to look nice but the whole batteries thing is a little,,, uneasy to me.

Don't worry about batteries. The Aimpoints batterylife is measured in years. The Eotech with the AA version will last 1100 hours with Lithium batteries and 600 hours with standard AA batteries. AA batteries are avaiable anywhere. Don't go with the Trijicon Reflex its a crappy sights that washes out easily. The new Tri power looks promising but its expensive.
Pat

 

[chopinbloc]

Don't go with the Trijicon Reflex its a crappy sights that washes out easily.

i hear that alot and i'm not sure if it's because the older models were different or if it's because there are alot of people out there who want to shoot white interior walls under florescent lights. my reflex II is a great sight, highly visible in nearly any light conditions without the need to turn it on and adjust the brightness level. the reticle is, in fact difficult to see against a white wall, indoors and under artificial light but pops out just fine against pretty much anything but a white background. it is also highly visible against a sandy background outside. so in the real world, if you are indoors and your target is can be seen through the sight a: you can see the reticle just fine against the target b: you don't particularly need the reticle for a COM shot. outdoors it works fine. if you are particularly concerned about it, you can get a model with a large reticle such as the chevron type (which also helps estimate range) and/or a polarizing filter. the filter came with my sight but i never use it if that tells you anything. there are limitations to any sighting system and one of the best close range sighting system for use in differing light conditions can be had for under a hundred dollars - an xs tritium front sight.

training is definitely more important than gear but i don't agree with the assertion that you need to spend a thousand dollars to get some decent training. you ought to be able to find a good instructor who offers a carbine course for $200-300 maybe even less. you'll want to take it in digestable chunks, anyway. a four day class almost certainly means missed work, it's extraordinarily expensive and you will have a difficult time digesting all of the information. besides, you'll have very sore thumbs a one or two day course still gives you a lot to work with but not so much that you forget half of what you paid to learn. go to the course, internalize the lessons, then practice what you learned in the desert. when you think you have it down, take the course again or better yet, the next level if they have one.

 

[Roadwild17]

Ok were talking about Eotech, Aimpoints, & Trijicons. What EXACTLY do these powered sights that are for 'low light conditions" do?



Does anyone know of a site that list good traning in my area (north Louisiana)?

 

[chopinbloc]

they all give you an aiming point that is visible in low light where a traditional iron sight would be difficult to see. they are also faster because eye position is not as critical and the aiming point is in the same focal plane as the target.

the eotech (and the bushnell of the same design) is a "holographic sight" it projects a red dot surounded by a circle with small crosshairs radiating out. the aimpoint is a collimator (or red dot) style sight that projects a red dot. the trijicon reflex is also a collimator and can be had with several different reticle types, though the concept is similar. all are parallax free, meaning that no matter what angle you view them from, if you can see the reticle, that's where the round will hit (not counting the offset from the bore axis). both the eotech and the aimpoint have very long battery life. the trijicon uses no batteries at all; it uses a fiber optic to collect ambient light and a tritium lamp for low light. for the user it means the reticle is always lit and there is no need for any adjustment. the aimpoint and the eotech both require adjustment to get the brightness level where you want it, though this is a quick and easy process and i think the eotech will go back to the same level after being switched off. they are all very good close range sights. each have minor draw backs but all are very solid, combat proven designs. then you have the trijicon tri-power. think of it as an aimpoint with tritium and fiber optic illumination in addition to battery power. i think i might get one myself.

 

[Chuck R.]

then you have the trijicon tri-power. think of it as an aimpoint with tritium and fiber optic illumination in addition to battery power. i think i might get one myself.

chopinbloc,

I've got a new Tri-Power on the way. I'm heading to Puerto Rico for an exercise Sunday and I won't be back for a week or so. I'll post a review once I get back.

Chuck

 

[bad LT]

I am amazed that nobody mentioned a normal sling.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

Chuck, I'd love to hear a review of the new Tri-power when you get back. I wasn't even aware they were out yet. Muy interesante...

 

[TooTaxed]

For training, suggest you check both with the NRA and gun clubs at your nearest military bases. As an example, the Fort Benning Rifle and Pistol Club occasionally hosts combat rifle and pistol courses at very reasonable rates...but that's a bit far for you to travel!

For appropriate accessories, query a few Iraq combat veterans, and owners of interesting accessories you see at your rifle ranges. Be sure to ask them about downsides as well as upsides! Some of the stuff looks good...but may have some annoyances too. (Such as detachable large cap mags for SKS's.)

 

[chopinbloc]

sounds good, chuck.

bad lt, he said he'd be using it for hd, sir. a three point or single point sling would probably be best if any. for purely hd a sling would mostly just get in the way.