New Arsenal Strike One Pistol...thoughts?

[armoredman]

FIVETWOSEVEN, wasn't aware of that.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Same release as the XD and I don't have problems with it.

Not quite, the mag release on the Arsenal appears to protrude from the frame considerably more than the XD magazine release.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Didn't catch that. I agree, that could be prone to mags popping out. My XD once shed it's magazine while I was sitting at my dinner table when it pushed just right against the backing of my chair.

 

[allaroundhunter]

My XD once shed it's magazine while I was sitting at my dinner table when it pushed just right against the backing of my chair.

I have had my M&P mag get released unintentionally the same way, and it is also a fairly flush fitting mag release. The protruding mag release on this strike-one is a big turn-off for me....I know, call me shallow

 

[GLOOB]

The one thing I saw in the video I DID NOT LIKE was how far the shooter's trigger finger had to move to fire shots. It looked as though he was SLAPPING the trigger forcefully with each shot.

Went back and watched the video, again, after reading this. And with that, the love affair is over...

Damn! You ruined it for me.

 

[ExMachina]

The "Strike One" features a single-piece trigger with an internal safety system based on a rotating mechanism that will not allow an internal shoulder to engage the transfer bar and release the striker until reaching the end of its travel, which can happen only if an uniform degree of pressure is exerted on both the upper and the lower portion of the trigger, that is, only if the trigger is pulled deliberately and properly. Accidental discharges by the small hands of a child or by a foreign object that gets entangled in the trigger guard is thus made virtually impossible, and at the same time a proper pressure on the trigger will result in a safe, sure and accurate discharge, as it would be expected from some of the best competition pistols, with higher first-shot target placement capabilities than any other service/defense sidearm available on the market today.

taken from here

 

[shep854]

I noticed the "trigger slap", but figured that was just the shooter's habit (though not a good one for fast, accurate fire).

 

[LiveLife]

The one thing I saw in the video I DID NOT LIKE was how far the shooter's trigger finger had to move to fire shots. It looked as though he was SLAPPING the trigger forcefully with each shot. I couldn't tell if that was necessary, or just the shooter's technique, but it looked "necessary."
...

After watching the action video again, I think the trigger is going to be the biggest feature most shooters are going to have problems with.

The trigger doesn't pivot in a fixed arc like some hinged triggers, but both pivots and must also be pushed rearward and slightly upwards -- which explains the funny "slapping" trigger technique I commented about in an earlier response.

I don't understand WHY they chose this trigger design. What PROBLEM was this trigger design attempting to solve?

I noticed the "trigger slap", but figured that was just the shooter's habit (though not a good one for fast, accurate fire).

Apparently the shooter in the video is an IPSC shooter and should be proficient on trigger control to utilize minimal reset of the trigger - http://www.ipsc.org/results/matchResult.php?ref=D52442862

But as ExMachina posted, due to the trigger design, it looked like the shooter was slapping the trigger - probably out of necessity to produce fast shot groups.

I only want to see one thing - the target that gentleman was rapid firing at during the video.

I noticed that too and was wondering why the shot group on the target they did show was a bit on the larger side at the distance he was shooting.

For me, shorter reset trigger is a must to produce fast and accurate double taps. Glock factory trigger has it and M&P can have it with a trigger job or APEX replacement (and looks like new M&P trigger S&W is releasing also).

I guess time will tell how the trigger reset and mag release works out.

 

[mgmorden]

I noticed that too and was wondering why the shot group on the target they did show was a bit on the larger side at the distance he was shooting.

Style of shooting. Most (though not all) of his hits were still in the A-zone of the target (I think all would have been if the group was centered - it was biased a bit to the left though). In IPSC any hit in the A-zone is as good as any other. He's not really shooting for measured groups - just hits in a general area as fast as possible.

 

[LiveLife]

mgmorden, the target they showed in the video was for slow fire. Especially for an accomplished IPSC shooter used to faster, less accurate but good enough for A-zone shot groups, I would have expected tighter shot groups.

This was a factory promotional video ... As a novice USPSA shooter, I could produce tighter shot groups than what he produced with many other pistols out of the box using slow fire at similar distance to target.

And as you posted, they did not show the shooter's fast fire target shot group.

All in all, interesting pistol and look forward to actual shooter reviews. Anyone know what the MSRP is going to be?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

If better accuracy isn't one of the innate advantages of this weapon -- which does away with the tilting barrel design -- what is the advantage to be gained by using the gun?

Maybe we'll see it later, with a different trigger design? From what I've seen, the trigger mechanism is not something that makes the gun, but it may be something that "breaks" it.

 

[Okiegunner]

Where Made?

Maybe this question has already been addressed...But where is this pistol made, and by whom? Is Arsenal the same company that markets high quality AK-47 & 74?

To me, the photos look like a wannabee cross between Glock, Caracal , and XD. Just my opinion.

Hey, who knows...they may turn out to be highly desirable, high quality pistols???

 

[Pilot]

If better accuracy isn't one of the innate advantages of this weapon -- which does away with the tilting barrel design -- what is the advantage to be gained by using the gun?

Dunno, haven't shot one. However, it does look like a higher grip is possible, with a lower bore axis so I would speculate less felt recoil, or recoil moving straight back into the arm. Less muzzle flip, better follow up shots. Similar reasons for the design of the HK P7, but this is just speculation on my part.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Dunno, haven't shot one. However, it does look like a higher grip is possible, with a lower bore axis so I would speculate less felt recoil, or recoil moving straight back into the arm. Less muzzle flip, better follow up shots. Similar reasons for the design of the HK P7, but this is just speculation on my part.

All these things are good things to have, but if the gun isn't innately MORE ACCURATE, these traits/features are not very useful. If the gun is very accurate, these characteristic give the shooter a gun that is both accurate and can be easily used rapidly.

But, if the trigger design requires a fundamentally different shooting technique -- and it looks like it might -- what's gained may be more than offset by what's lost.

(I understand that all of this is conjecture on the part of everyone in this discussion, so I'll be the first to say that we shouldn't build too many mountains out of what may only SEEM to be a molehill.)

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I'm not a fan of just about any new firearms. I think it takes about a decade of commercial use before you can really determine how well they work over a long period of time. With so many proven designs out there, I tend not to be all that interested something that is new. Having said that, I don't buy a brand new car model when they come out as most still need to have the bugs worked out.

 

[GLOOB]

I'm a bit confused about all the hoopla over accuracy. When a guy is shooting unsupported rapidfire with a handgun, the group size is dictated 99% by the indian, 1% by the arrow. And of that 1%, it's going to come down to personal preference that is 99% ergos, sights, and trigger. Not inherent accuracy. If there is any difference in accuracy (better OR worse) between a tilt lock and this action, it's not going to show up on paper on this kind of pistol unless you put it in a Ransom rest. For the intended target market, that will matter not.

 

[mgmorden]

If there is any difference in accuracy (better OR worse) between a tilt lock and this action, it's not going to show up on paper on this kind of pistol unless you put it in a Ransom rest.

You're looking at this wrong. A ransom rest is specifically where this type of system WON'T show any improvement.

What this locking system does is to allow a lower bore axis. That means that if you consider a parallel line inline with the bore, that line will be closer to your hands with this design versus others. Recoil is produced in-line with the barrel. It produces a bit of a swing like a lever. That swing is more pronounced the higher that bore axis is. IE, muzzle flip. The lower you can get that bore axis, the less the muzzle jumps on the shot, and hence sight picture is upset less, and the sights are back down on the target faster.

A Ransom rest doesn't care much about sight upset or muzzle flip - but a real shooter most certainly does.

That translates into higher PRACTICAL accuracy. Mechanical accuracy may be unchanged or possibly even decline some, but that practical accuracy means more shots can be put into a concentrated zone during rapid fire.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I'm a bit confused about all the hoopla over accuracy. When a guy is shooting unsupported rapidfire with a handgun, the group size is dictated 99% by the indian, 1% by the arrow. And of that 1%, it's going to come down to personal preference that is 99% ergos, sights, and trigger. Not inherent accuracy. If there is any difference in accuracy (better OR worse) between a tilt lock and this action, it's not going to show up on paper on this kind of pistol unless you put it in a Ransom rest. For the intended target market, that will matter not.

First, the shooter, as noted in some of the accompanying materials, is a world class IPSC champion. Most of the top IPSC shooters I've seen shoot, including one I've taken instruction from, are VERY impressive shooters. You should expect stellar shooting from such a competitor.

Second, a crappy arrow and a crappy bow will give you crappy results even IF the indian is an outstanding marksman when using superior equipment. A great shooter can't shoot smaller group sizes than the gun is capable of delivering... If the shooter is 100% and the gun is 75%, the results will still never be more than 75%.

You can't use Ransom rest tests with polymer-framed guns. The flex of polymer doesn't always return the gun to exactly the same position with each cycle. With "aimed" fire that doesn't matter, but Ransom rest tests aren't aimed.