New baby came home ..now need advise on load

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I've shot 360gr Underwood hard cast, 325gr HSM hard cast bear load, 200gr Hornady FTX, and 454 Casull 300gr FTX.

In the 1st cylinder I shot even the Casull had a bulge so it sure seems like the gun to me. I hate it because it sounds like S&W is way behind now but it could be dangerous and I like my firearms to be correct for some strange reason

Sorry for interrupting a good thread. Thanks
If you're getting case bulges even in the factory 454 loads, I think you have some out of spec chambers.

Try numbering the chambers to see if one or more consistently has issues. S&W should be contacted for that issue.
 
If you're getting case bulges even in the factory 454 loads, I think you have some out of spec chambers.

Try numbering the chambers to see if one or more consistently has issues. S&W should be contacted for that issue.

That was my next order of business. Marking to see if it's the same chambers every time to know for sure. Then I thought, it's for sure a cylinder issue so no need bulging anymore of my cases. So I'm gonna contact S&W and hopefully have them look at it.

Thanks for the advise
 
Big difference in construction between the standard 300gr .45 cal XTP(#45230) and the XTP-MAG. The standard is primarily a .45 Colt projectile and works well for standard .45 Colt velocities. Many folks make a mistake of trying to push it past it's intended usage because they are considerably cheaper than the MAG versions. Many folks don't even know there is a difference. Many folks regularly use projectiles intended for .45 Colt velocities in their .460s without knowing better. Not only are they sacrificing terminal performance, but they are exposing their gun to damage from excessive forcing cone erosion, and jacket/core separation due to the thin jackets of those projectiles. If there is one thing I try to instill on folks loading for their .460, is to use an appropriate projectile if and when they load to legitimate .460 velocities and pressures. While the old traditional cup and core bullet is old fashioned, it still works very well on medium size game like deer, Blackbear and hogs. While I also like the Speer Deep Curls in my .460, I have no qualms at all with the XTP-MAGS...in both 240 and 300gr. Folks should also be hesitant to taking advice from folks that don't load .460. I load for a whole passel of handgun calibers. The .460 is a whole different beast than most.
So one has to have a bullet failure in the exact same firearm with the exact same bullet for their input to be valid? Gimme a break. I would likewise keep in perspective advice from folks who have only shot deer. Big difference between a 100-150lb deer and a 400lb hog or black bear. Like I said, lots of folks have success with them but I cannot ignore the failures. Yes, the .460 is a different beast and it is MORE critical to choose a good bullet for it than most other chamberings. If a questionable bullet is going to fail, it's going to do so launched out of a .460.

Yes, I'm also very well aware of the difference between the standard and mag version. The problem is the way the bullet is made, not the thickness of the jacket, which is the only difference. We've seen many failures, across all calibers and velocity ranges. Sometimes they fail to expand. Sometimes they expand too rapidly and come completely unglued. Sometimes they simply deform without actually expanding. Sometimes they separate. I'm not going to use a jacketed bullet with such a reputation. Just as I don't hunt with old tech Remington, Federal or Winchester. The XTP is an old, cheap bullet and it baffles me that some folks are so defensive about it. The OP is free to take all information and make an informed decision for hisself. :confused:
 
@TN Outlaw

By the way, buck460xvr's assertion about sticky extraction not necessarily being a sign of over pressure mirrors my own experience. I've shot those HSM loads and they are stout. Extraction was a bit sticky, and if you shot them after 454's the crud ring from the shorter cartridge may have caused the extraction issue. That's also so long ass brass to be pushing out of the chambers.

Another forum member called Evergreen had sticky extraction several years ago with the 360 gr Buffalo Bore load.

The case bulging is a different story though. Good luck man. Let us know how it turns out.
 
Thanks 460Shooter

I doubt it's over pressure since mult loadings did this. Also, they stuck with the 1st 5 shots I fired so it wouldn't be the shorter Casull burn ring either. Heck, I've fired a total of 10 shots from the gun and both cylinders were pretty hard to extract.

Like you said, that's alot of brass to be pushing out with 5 of them bad boys at one time and it being a very high pressure cartridge I thought I'd ask if this was a common problem. The bulge on the few cases is very minimal but can be seen so I'm thinking cylinder problem. It sure is fun to shoot though so I hope S&W stands behind it.
 
The case bulging is a different story though. Good luck man. Let us know how it turns out.

^^^I agree. Case bulging is caused by a poorly supported brass, or extreme pressure. I would be extremely hesitant to reload any brass that displays bulging, especially since .460 brass is so short lived anyway. Sometimes one can bulge the cylinders when shooting amounts of over pressured rounds. I'm thinking this is not your problem. If you continue to have problems, I would have the cylinders checked. I polish my chambers with a brass cleaning brush in a drill to help with extraction......doesn't take much crud to make it sticky. Have also found that any oil/polish/resizing lube left on the cases will make extraction harder too, and as 460Shooter said, the long length of the brass doesn't help.


So one has to have a bullet failure in the exact same firearm with the exact same bullet for their input to be valid? Gimme a break.

I was under the impression that was the question asked in the OP. What's a good bullet for hunting deer, bear and hogs with a .460.

Just as I don't hunt with old tech Remington, Federal or Winchester. The XTP is an old, cheap bullet and it baffles me that some folks are so defensive about it. The OP is free to take all information and make an informed decision for hisself. :confused:

While the XTP(Cup and Core) is an old design, it still works and works well, as do similar bullets from "old tech Remington, Federal and Winchester". Goes without saying, iffin' it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's a reason the old "cup and core" style bullets are still around, and it ain't just because they are cheap. It's because they work and millions of folks in this country, still depend on them to put venison on the table. They don't need me to defend them. Saboted XTPs are highly praised in the Muzzle loader community, same bullet design, and many times, the same bullet used in handgun hunting. Are there better bullets out there? Maybe. Are more expensive boutique style bullets really needed to take deer, blackies and hogs? Matter of opinion. Folks are always looking for the "magic bullet" to make them a better hunter. Most of the times, proficiency with their weapon and hunting skill, will have a much greater affect. Around here we take Blackies either by bait or by dogs. Shots are close and even bears over 400lbs taken easily by handguns and archery. No, we don't have hogs.....thank God. Still, one only has to go to a Hog hunting forum to see folks still have good luck with "old, cheap bullets" when they put them where they need to be. As hunters, we all want that "extra edge". Whether it be camo, scent prevention, new high tech gizmos, etc. I have no problem with any of it. As I said before, one should use what they have the most confidence in, are comfortable with and most proficient with. While I don't agree with everything others use, I see no reason to have to personally attack their reason for using it. I do agree, the OP should take all the information available out there, and weigh it thoroughly before making his own decision. In the end, in my own HO, his success in taking deer. bear and hogs with either XTPs or higher priced bullets will be the same. Those "bonded" 300 gr Deep Curls are old tech too, and I find them to work just as well in the .460. They cost about the same. But that's for me. Others are free to feel differently.
 
I see no reason to have to personally attack their reason for using it.
Ok, and yet...the first thing you did was to attack mine???

Yeah, all those old bullets work, until they don't. What I don't understand is how people need to disregard utter failures until it happens to them. XTP's come unglued, that's a fact. The fact that many seem to ignore it when it happens just because there's a dead deer laying there is irrelevant. As I've said three times now, deer don't take much killing and there's a big difference between deer and a 400lb hog or black bear. Personally, I cannot ignore the failures and bring myself to trust a bullet design that I've seen fail time and again. If you can, be my guest. Maybe when you hunt something other than deer and have more riding on it than a morning in the woods, you'll think differently.

"Magic bullets" don't make one a better hunter. That's an argument in search of a soap box with some unfriendly implications. There are absolutely better bullets available. Bullets fail, it is undeniable fact. We wouldn't have the plethora of improved bullets developed in the last 100yrs if they didn't. Better bullets fail less often. For some this is inconvenient because to accept that there are better bullets is to admit that your tried and true is less than perfect. Better bullets are simply a measure intended to maximize the odds of success and minimize unforeseen circumstances. Better bullets ensure that our shot placement counts. Better bullets reduce the chances of losing a game animal, often at great expense to the one footing the bill. Better bullets make larger game possible. As hunters, we should always strive to use the best tools available. The advantage to big bore revolvers is diameter and mass. I'm not going to give away my advantage by using a bullet that comes apart.
 
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