New caliber discovered. Need info
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bullturkey
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In this months NRA mag the top 7 shooters in world competition are 4- 38 super 3- 9mm. I am 59 yrs old, shot most of my life, served my uncle sam for 14 years, shot competition IPSC, IDPA etc. I have shot and owned many caliber/action type handguns, for me my sig 220 in 38 super is the cats meoow.
A good cartridge. The semi-rim came about for the .38 ACP, .32 ACP, .25 ACP, and 9mm Browning Long because Browning started out his auto pistol development working with revolver cartridges. When those didn't feed well through a magazine, he kept reducing the rims to the point where the feeding was OK. The reason he didn't support (headspace) the cases on the mouth was that it just never occurred to him to do it that way. It appears that sometime around 1904 he saw a 9mm Parabellum round and the light went on. His .380 ACP and .45 ACP were straight cases supported on the case mouth.
When Colt hopped up the old .38 ACP to .38 Super, they kept the same case and the ammo makers nickel plated the cases of the .38 Super to try to keep folks from using it in the old double link pistols. It didn't always work, and quite a few of the older pistols were ruined by shooting .38 Super.
Jim
When Colt hopped up the old .38 ACP to .38 Super, they kept the same case and the ammo makers nickel plated the cases of the .38 Super to try to keep folks from using it in the old double link pistols. It didn't always work, and quite a few of the older pistols were ruined by shooting .38 Super.
Jim
DougDubya
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Back in the 80's, when I was a high schooler writing adventure stories, I was in love with the movie Cobra, by Sylvester Stallone.
In my fan-fic stories, Cobretti's 1911 was a .38 Super Commander, though. All the power of a .357 with all the handling and ergonomics of a 1911. I was such a big Commander fan that I had Cobretti's girl partner trade in her police issue Beretta 92 for a 1911 herself - since it fit her smaller hands so well.
In my fan-fic stories, Cobretti's 1911 was a .38 Super Commander, though. All the power of a .357 with all the handling and ergonomics of a 1911. I was such a big Commander fan that I had Cobretti's girl partner trade in her police issue Beretta 92 for a 1911 herself - since it fit her smaller hands so well.
ak-kev
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The Super 38 is Far superior to the 9mm. I've been loading for it for years. I shoot a Speer 125gr Gold Dot @ 1450fps easily. No bulged cases, flatten primers, or pierced primers. I have 3 Colts, and a Detonics CombatMaster. I love them all. Its probably my favorite round for defense. It shoots flat, easily managed recoil and 10rds of .357 magnum ballistics with very fast follow-up shots. Whats not to love?? Kevin.
outerlimit
Member
The 9x23 is far superior to the .38 Super.
I never liked semi-rimmed cartridges in autoloaders either. I've always avoided the .32 auto and .38 Super for this very reason and the problems I've had with them.
I never liked semi-rimmed cartridges in autoloaders either. I've always avoided the .32 auto and .38 Super for this very reason and the problems I've had with them.
Steve in Allentown
Member
I have to agree with outerlimits. What I did was purchase a 9mm Springfield and had a 9x23 barrel fitted to it. Now I can shoot either caliber by swapping barrels and mags.
The biggest problem with the 9x23 is that it's a niche caliber and so you can't easily find factory ammo for it. Cabella's is not going to stock it. You can order Winchester factory ammo and Corbon makes a couple of flavors of it. Winchester factory runs an honest 1450fps (a bit faster coming out of my Nowlin barrel) . Handloading allows you to produce anywhere from mild to wild ammo.
The 9x23 produces rifle-like pressures. To contain all that oomph the brass is very thick at the base and looks all the world like a .223 rifle case when you section it. Because it's so thick, it's perfectly safe to shoot in a standard, non-ramped barrel.
On the plus side you can load a 1911 with 11 rounds of 9x23 which equals or exceeds the ballistics of the .357 magnum loaded with 125gr hollow points. Compared to shooting .45 ACP 230gr hollow points, the 9x23 has noticeably less recoil. However, it's a lot louder. That bad boy really cracks.
With all that velocity the 9x23 is like a laser beam in that it shoots so flat.
With FMJ bullets it penetrates like 105mm sabot main gun tank round. Well, maybe not that good.
DougDubya
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That may be, but I didn't grow up with the 9x23mm, nor do I have stories of the Texas Rangers stomping bad guys with a Johnny Come Lately that popped up in 1996 (or the Secret Service chambering their SIG P220's for it for a while).
Now, if it gets a lot of law enforcement adoption, and gets the reputation of being the .357 of the 1911 set for punching through bootleggers' cars and is utilized by lawmen as awesome as Frank Hamer to take down someone as big as Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow... then we'll talk about giving up the love for the .38 Super and go to a cartridge with ballistic superiority.
glocktoys
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fun round and seen one for a sig p220 at a shop last year
outerlimit
Member
Well, 10mm was adopted by the FBI and we all know what happened there.
ak-kev
Member
I like the 9x23 too. The draw for me was their 125gr Silvertip at 1450fps. Amazing. But then I realized I can do that with my Super! Plus with the Super, you get an "off the scale" cool factor. 
DougDubya
Member
The .38 Super was also liked by FBI agents in the Prohibition era as well.
Still, if the FBI adopts the 9x23, it MIGHT cause a resurgence in the .38 Super, going by the 10mm failure/.40 S&W win logic.
Except, it'd become the exact opposite situation - I love the 10mm. I'm indifferent to the .40 S&W.
jaydubya
Member
How does the Super compare with the .357 SIG? I have no experience with either caliber, but the .357 SIG is becoming available again, and the police that carry it seem to love it. On the other hand, the .38 Super appears destined to remain the handloader's specialty cartridge it has been for most of its life.
Cordially, Jack
Cordially, Jack
gglass
Member
...In other news today, Neil Armstrong became the first man to walk on the moon. News at 11:00.
DougDubya
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They pretty much operate the same. The .38 Super is optimized for 1911 frames, the .357 SIG is optimized for 9mm frames.
Hm. Anyone ever convert a Smith and Wesson 4506 to .38 Super?
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