New England Journal of Med hack job...

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Wow, the doctor who wrote this has no idea about science at all:

Hmmmm how do you suppose he/she became a doctor without becoming involved with science and scientific methodology ?

The High Road is suppose to be above intolerance, yet seems to have moved to a more intolerant modus with time ... other view seem to be bashed as, 'headquarters of leftist thinking', 'Are doctors really this stupid?', '"That article is so full of misrepresenations and outright lies that I could barely finish it."', 'The leftist extremists want us to believe the nation's civil rights ought to be turned over to doctors.', 'You will be speechless after readings NEJMs latest hack job on guns', 'The article as a whole is bunk.' ....

Why the need to bash another persons view of the world ? It seems to me to be getting more difficult for people to accept people, as people. I found this thread an interesting bashing of the NEJM.
 
Since 2005, a total of 14 states have adopted statutes that expand the range of places where people may use guns against others, eliminate any duty to retreat if possible before shooting, and grant shooters immunity from prosecution, sometimes even for injuries to bystanders.

This must refer to various "castle doctrine" laws. Anyone aware of a law that "grants shooters immunity from prosecution"? I'm not.

Policies limiting gun ownership and use have positive effects, whether those limits affect high-risk guns such as assault weapons or Saturday night specials, high-risk persons such as those who have been convicted of violent misdemeanors, or high-risk venues such as gun shows. New York and Chicago, which have long restricted handgun ownership and use, had fewer homicides in 2007 than at any other time since the early 1960s.

Then I wonder why a recent study by the Center for Disease Control was unable to find any relationship between gun control laws and reduced crime rates? I would think that a doctor, of all people, would be aware of that.

Conversely, policies that encourage the use of guns have been ineffective in deterring violence. Permissive policies regarding carrying guns have not reduced crime rates, and permissive states generally have higher rates of gun-related deaths than others do (see map).

I guess this guy never heard of the work of Jon Lott. And his last statement, like many other assertions in the article, ignores the "arrow of causality" problem. Just because a home with insulin is 10 times more likely to have a diabetic person living there than one without it doesn't mean that the presence of insulin causes diabetes, hey doc?

No one predicts that a constitutionally protected right to use guns for private purposes, once it's been determined to exist, will remain confined to guns kept at home. Pro-gun organizations have worked effectively at the state level to expand the right to use guns in public, and all but three states generally prohibit local regulation.

So where's the research showing that people who obtain CHLs and carry guns in public are out there committing violent crimes with them? Oh, I'm sorry. There isn't any such research because the plain fact is that people with CHL are statistically less likely to commit a violent crime than police officers are.

I'd like someone to ask this guy how it can be that allowing people who do not commit crimes to keep and bear arms can cause harm to society.

Scenario 1: Total gun ban except for cops. Some criminals manage to get them anyway. But with most of the population (including criminals) disarmed, the weak are clearly at the mercy of the strong.

Scenario 2: Cops and violent criminals have guns. Potential victims totally disarmed.

Scenario 3: Cops, violent criminals, and potential victims have guns.

What makes anyone think that Scenario 1 or 2 are somehow better than 3?
 
Lies, Lies, and more Lies

" Living in a home where there are guns increases the risk of homicide by 40 to 170% and the risk of suicide by 90 to 460%. "


Where the hell do they get this stuff? Smells like some of that Joyce Foundation-funded pseudo-research to me.
 
Hmmmm how do you suppose he/she became a doctor without becoming involved with science and scientific methodology ?

The High Road is suppose to be above intolerance, yet seems to have moved to a more intolerant modus with time ... other view seem to be bashed as, 'headquarters of leftist thinking', 'Are doctors really this stupid?', '"That article is so full of misrepresenations and outright lies that I could barely finish it."', 'The leftist extremists want us to believe the nation's civil rights ought to be turned over to doctors.', 'You will be speechless after readings NEJMs latest hack job on guns', 'The article as a whole is bunk.' ....

Why the need to bash another persons view of the world ? It seems to me to be getting more difficult for people to accept people, as people. I found this thread an interesting bashing of the NEJM.

Really? I'm bashing the foolish way in which it was written.

Despite your defense, I am not bashing his "world-view."

I am bashing his methodology. His assertions and fallacies are abundant and evident.

He makes many correlation-causation errors. For example: "In fact, handgun purchasers substantially increase their risk of a violent death." Even if his data is true, he is making one the cause rather than noting that people who purchase handguns may have ALREADY been in substantial risk of violent death.

He counts costs without counting benefits. "This reality is reflected in the fact that the $2 billion annual costs of medical care for the victims of gun violence are dwarfed by an estimated overall economic burden, including both material and intangible costs, of $100 billion" He only states the cost of gun violence without estimating the benefits of gun ownership.

He makes statments from studies that suffer from selection bias. "Young people who commit suicide with a gun usually use a weapon kept at home, and among women in shelters for victims of domestic violence, two thirds of those who come from homes with guns have had those guns used against them." Young people who want to commit suicide AND have a gun present will likely use that gun. If they have to work to find a gun, which will also possibly alert other people, they will choose other means. Secondly, he is also making a correlation/causation mistake in the second part. Simply because women who are victims of domestic violence have had guns used against them DOES NOT IMPLY that those who have guns will use them against their wives (or husbands).

He states statistics without citations: "Gun ownership and gun violence rise and fall together." Here he implies a positive correlation, when, in fact there is, at worst, NO correlation. (I will not cite studies because I'm not writing for a MEDICAL JOURNAL or any other professional journal).

He makes irrelevant comparisons: "Homicides rebounded in the late 1980s with the advent of "crack" cocaine, but today the District's gun-suicide rate is lower than that of any state." Here he talks about "gun-suicides" without commenting on the suicide rate. Is this because suicide with a gun is worse than suicide with pills?

So, we should accept that he has a different view and just move on, rather than commenting on the fact that this is a poorly written, poorly researched, unscholarly article in a (supposedly) scholarly journal?
 
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new england socilist rag

yes I am bashing the NEW england journal of medicine which has a history of anti gun prophesy.one CAN question its reliability on medical affairs when it steps out arm in arm with sara brady.600,00 medical misadventures is not the same as 6/8000 deaths by firearms.12,000 suicides.
I guess I must have killed quite a few people in my life as I am 83 and had guns(in my house) since I was born.:banghead:--:fire:--:D--:D
 
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