New frontier polymer lower

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Archangel14

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Guys (and gals), I'm looking to see if anyone here has experience with EXTENDED use of New Frontier's polymer G2 lower. I have one, and put a cheap upper on it, and it's worked very well through about 500 rounds. Amazingly, it's a sub-$500 build and the rifle is extremely accurate. Never a hiccup. But until I put thousands of rounds through it, which is not likely to take place anytime soon, I won't have any practical experience with the reliability in a long term sense. So, does anyone have any experience putting thousands of rounds through a NF lower? If so, what is your experience? I'm particularly interested is finding out how well the trigger group holds up after many rounds. Thanks!
 
Dr. Rob, I read your previous review. Very thorough, thank you. I too was pretty surprised to see that the hammer is a polymer. Even still, after a few hundred rounds with no obvious wear or deformity noticed on the hammer, I can't help but think that this is a weak link that will malfunction when needed. I have no logical basis to think that, but that thought remains. I have been unable to find a review anywhere on the net about the long term performance and durability of the NF Gen II lower. Every review seems to be a well satisfied customer after a few hundred rounds. That's not sufficient for me. I guess the only way to find out is to do it myself!
 
We all know of the breakage problems with the plastic lowers and questions similar to the OP are constantly posted. My question is "why would anyone put a poly lower under a quality upper and then wait for it to break". With the price of aluminum lowers in the $50 area and their proven track record I will stick to metal for my builds. Yes, maybe I am just a little biased but have never broken a receiver in many, many builds. Poly is used quite effectively however in many other firearms so I would suggest the engineering for the Ar receiver, which was developed for aluminum, has stress points the poly sometimes cannot handle. I assembled a couple of rifles on poly receivers for a friend as Christmas gifts for his daughters, with low round counts they have not had any difficulty to date.
 
The difficulty is that the guys buying poly lowers were - aside from the bucks ups experimenters - largely doing so on price. Then forged lowers were 2-3 times the price of poly. Now you can get Anderson blems for $39.99 and there are plenty of reports from happy owners they mostly work fine.

Unlike poly owners who, altho not legion, seem to have issues they report. And being they were strapped for cash, could also shoot a lot less because of it. So it may take a long time to get 50,000 round feedback on them.

Not to mention how many were used on .22 builds, which only leaves the handling and banging around in storage as an example.

Aside from the price point difference, which is now small, there are other questions we all have.

Can you get your loaded out teammate to stand on one used in a battle rifle and lift him into a high first story window? That is a tactic and spec for the M16/M4.

Will the poly lower handle bayonet and CQB training and use? Buttstroke impacts or being driven as hard as possible into a tire rubber target while being pushed with the grip hand? Downward slash or impact with a CQB muzzle device? Another tactic and spec for forged lowers.

There is some video of them getting squeezed in a vise, etc, got to say, use it as a ladder rung, impact device, and then store it in a 140 degree car in August for 6 hours, load and fire.

You can do some of that with a Glock, yes, same as the Remington Nylon 66 that was famously advertised as the Inuit's seal dispatching gun hunting out of kayaks up north. The real issue is that shooters are extremely conservative and aren't willing to take any chance at all, ever, so it's going to be a high hurdle to jump over to get their acceptance. It took Glock generations of guns and at least 25 years.

There is an up and coming "80%" lower in the market, one cut from light plate and bolted together, or extruded parts. Poly is going to have to compete with them, too. Plus poly has the difficulty of being accused of not having it's own design elements - but when Omni goes "billet" and Tennessee Arrms "milspec" in looks, you lose the other customer. The metal reinforcements seem to help, but - still no side by side load out tests of what soldiers have been doing to forged all these years.

Like, mortaring stuck rounds. I'd like to see side by side tests to destruction. We don't actually abuse our guns that much, but if poly can keep up, it would be a huge selling point. How much side loading will they withstand? Can they be impact mortared as much as forged? How many bayonet thrusts in their service life? Can you prop it up at a 45 degree angle and repeatedly drop 85 pound loaded rucksacks on it from 6 feet up? Drop to the ground with it butt first and use it in leverage to cushion your fall in the three second rush? Repeatedly, for a 20 year service life?

Be nice to see some of these go thru about ten cycles of Basic Training and give us the report. I wouldn't expect "operator" level acceptance from that test, but it would be a significant landmark to accomplish.

Nobody said the SCAR had any issues in that regard - begs the question, tho. Was there a known issue, however small, or was it just the same as the forged lower? FN sure isn't saying, and I very much expect a non-disclosure agreement was part of the arrangement. Taking no news is good news, tho - there were no leaks or complaints I've heard of - it stands as a testimony to the poly lower being just as good for less expense.

We just haven't found which AR poly lower does that yet. Too early to tell, too many go under too soon. Even Cav Arms didn't make it - and their product seemed to be that lower (if you like a permanent fixed stock.)
 
Aside from the price point difference, which is now small, there are other questions we all have.

The "price point" difference is not that small. Referencing the Andersen Arms lower for $39 (I've only seen them as low as $49, at times), buyers still have to order the stripped lower to their FFL. Most LGS's around me are now charging a $100 transfer fee. So really, in most instances you're paying no less than $150 just for the stripped lower. Add in a buffer tube, springs, decent stock, and trigger group and you're upwards of $270 to $300. I can buy a NF complete lower for $109, free shipping. And most of my LGS's will order one for me at that price (no transfer fee, but not so for the discount lowers, which is strange to me). That's quite a savings.

But my inquiry wasn't about price. It seeks personal opinion based upon actual long term experience with a complete NF lower. I have a very inexpensive NF build that, to date, performs quite well and is very solid. I know that there will always be naysayers concerning a "plastic" lower. I know a guy who will not consider a Glock, because he won't ""use a plastic piece of s%#t". But until I hear from someone who can say "I put 15,000 rounds through one and here are my thoughts", I cannot form an opinion as to long term reliability.
 
The "price point" difference is not that small. Referencing the Andersen Arms lower for $39 (I've only seen them as low as $49, at times), buyers still have to order the stripped lower to their FFL. Most LGS's around me are now charging a $100 transfer fee. So really, in most instances you're paying no less than $150 just for the stripped lower. Add in a buffer tube, springs, decent stock, and trigger group and you're upwards of $270 to $300. I can buy a NF complete lower for $109, free shipping. And most of my LGS's will order one for me at that price (no transfer fee, but not so for the discount lowers, which is strange to me). That's quite a savings.

If they're charging you $100 for a transfer, you need to either move or do more searching. There are quite a few pawn shops around here that will do a transfer for $20 and that's per transaction that can include multiple firearms.

Matt
 
If they're charging you $100 for a transfer, you need to either move or do more searching.

I live in rapist California. Every dealer in my area 30 miles each way is charging $100. That's my economic reality.
 
I live in rapist California. Every dealer in my area 30 miles each way is charging $100. That's my economic reality.
I feel for ya man. I went to California for a couple of days when my son graduated from Marine boot camp. I couldn't get out of there fast enough. There are some places in Cal that I'd love to visit, specifically for the fishing, but I hate being unarmed for that long.

Matt
 
Can you get your loaded out teammate to stand on one used in a battle rifle and lift him into a high first story window? That is a tactic and spec for the M16/M4.

Outside the military ans SWAT, few people would do this to their rifles. I would be dubious about doing that to the rifle I spent over a grand on. But if it was issued to me I might think otherwise.

Will the poly lower handle bayonet and CQB training and use? Buttstroke impacts or being driven as hard as possible into a tire rubber target while being pushed with the grip hand? Downward slash or impact with a CQB muzzle device? Another tactic and spec for forged lowers.

I doubt 99% of AR owners have mounted a bayonet with the intent of using it. I have one, and look, it doesn't fit the 16 inch M4 clones, but it's a neat accessory to my rifle.

New Frontier posted their stress testing here and it was pretty impressive. I recall them abusing it with mechanical means and flat out throwing it around.

I use my AR's in competition and I don't 'baby' them. But I don't plan on abusing my rifle like a $100 blue gun training prop.


I bought mine because AT THE TIME, a complete built lower with stock, lpk, etc was $129 with transfer etc. Yes Now you can buy an aluminum one complete in that range, at the time you could not. The price point made me want to try it out. I never expected it to outclass or be the equal of my milspec Colt, but if it does.. wow I'll be even more impressed.
 
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Not arguing what your FFL may charge, but that same fee applies to forged, too. What the market was demanding 18 months ago is exactly why I was also looking at poly recently.

What PSA was asking last week at $49 and shipping for a blem lower made it economically the equal of a Tennessee Arms.

Doesn't answer the OP's original question, unfortunately. But that economic reality is where I was pointing out the difficulty stood. Not too many are on the market very long, so we don't get extended feed back.

My point about how issue rifles are treated is to inform what the baseline of performance is expected. I certainly won't do all that to the $1,100 6.8 I built, but I know that it can by and large handle it if needed. We all tend to buy more than we need to answer the 5% of the times we think could happen.

Poly lower owners aren't too unhappy about their purchase, so far, tho, nobody seems intent to push them to the last 5%, which is why it will take years to sort out who's lower is meeting what is an arbitrary standard in issue weapons. We just don't know yet - which is why I didn't buy poly.

I did buy a used police issue G19 back in the day, it's not any rejection of tupperware - had a HK91 long before that - it's simply not knowing how far they will go. Again, the makers aren't treating them the same as an issue rifle was treated when I went thru basic in 1983, so until then, many of us are waiting.

If it had been $29, I would have considered it much more. Injection molded fiberglass reinforced nylon with two machine finished turnings doesn't wrap up a lot of cost in materials, the die is paid up after tens of thousands of parts. They are still paying for the die, unfortunately.
 
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