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new gun law

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by beeb173, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. beeb173

    beeb173 Member

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    just looking for SOMETHING as 2A supporters we can do to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. what about a tax on guns/ammo specifically ear marked to do just that. i for one understand that along with the freedom i enjoy keeping my guns i also (along with the gun companies that profit from the sales) have a responsibility to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill.

    i don't know exactly how exactly that money would be spent. as with everything, the devil is in the details. possibly crosschecking prescription drugs used for depression etc with purchase permits.

    i refuse to believe both sides of the isle can't come together to reduce these mass shootings perpetrated by people that neither side wants to be near a gun (or sharp scissors for that matter)

    my prayers are with the families in connecticut.
     
  2. BoilerUP

    BoilerUP Member

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    Nothing can stop someone with evil in their heart.

    Nothing.
     
  3. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    No. You think anyone taking anti-anxiety or anti-depressants shouldn't be allowed to buy guns?
     
  4. markdaniel

    markdaniel Member

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    Why punish law abiding gun owners with a tax that will do nothing but give antis ammo. Guns and ammo do not cause crime.
     
  5. bhesler

    bhesler Member

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    The one thing I can think of involves loosening the medical privacy laws in respect to mental health professionals in reporting those they believe are a threat to others. It still would not prevent someone from stealing a firearm or using other means.
     
  6. RobsTV

    RobsTV Member

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    We have one law and that was enough. The 2nd amendment. If places would stop fooling with it, and stop restricting it, then perhaps today's event at a gun safe zone never would have happened, or at least ended much sooner.

    If all restrictions on guns were lifted, criminals and mental dangerous nut jobs would find much shorter lives in our society.
     
  7. smalls

    smalls Member

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    You can go ahead and give up your freedoms.

    Please, leave mine alone.
     
  8. beeb173

    beeb173 Member

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    probably not. although i'm open to hear the other side.
     
  9. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    These soft targets need to be hardened. Schools run relatively tight budgets. They need more legit security. I'm not just saying, school safety plans, but better security such as. Perimeter fences. Check/choke point in/out. (other exits that are alarmed in case people need to get out fast) Possibly, armed principals, selected staff members. (Lots and lots of training).

    Same thing with malls, a place where 10,000 people gather, needs to be protected by armed guards/police.

    This is a world view issue. The left believes people are good and can be allowed to act good if encouraged to do so. The right knows (not believes) that people aren't good and we need to prepare ourselves for battle.

    I don't understand how we have an armed guards at banks, airports, government buildings, but we don't where we keep our most treasured asset, our children.

    No new gun laws. But these gun free/safe zones need to change how they operate in the face of reality.

    Prayers for all the innocents involved, feel sick over it.
     
  10. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    These reactions by gun owners are precisely how we are going to lose our rights to keep and bear arms. "Not my problem, leave my guns alone" isn't going to cut it for much longer, I'm afraid. Unfortunately, that is leaving the door too wide open for Anti's, and its time for Pro2A people to start becoming more vocal about what we should do, instead of going after guns

    Health care reform, anyone?
    Maybe make it a lot easier and much less of a stigma for people who are mentally ill to seek treatment, maybe make it a little easier to afford, with the understanding that if you are considering shooting up a school, you probably aren't gainfully employed and can't afford meds...if you've even been able to afford going to the doctor to find out why you feel shooting up a school is an acceptable answer...
    Speaking as someone with experience, people don't just snap out of reality one day and pick up a gun to kill kids. Mental illness is generally recognizable and treatable, before it degenerates into this kind of situation. The question is, do people want to admit to being mentally ill? Do they want to take their meds, that is...if they can afford to? (you are looking about well over $1000/month for most people in this situation)
    Do we want to subsidize people who can't hold down a job because they are mentally ill, so they don't shoot up schools and then become a danger to us retaining our 2A rights? Would such a thing be "entitlement" or would it be proactively working to preserve our rights and our society?

    Just a thought, trying to be more proactive than "not my problem, don't take my guns".
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  11. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    so if a crazy person runs over people in an SUV, should we raise taxes on cars to keep them out of the hands of crazy people?

    guns arent the issue, laws arent the issue, accessibility to dangerous things isnt the issue...the fact is, sane people dont go out and kill other people.....and a crazy person if determined is going to find a way to do it regardless of what the circumstances are.

    we need to start treating mental illness like any other disease and encourage people to get treatment, and if they wont friends and family need to step in to encourage them to get help.

    if you saw someone bleeding, wouldnt you encourage them to go to the hospital?.....so why not the same thing when someone is depressed?

    very rarely do people with severe mental illness present with no symptoms...there is always going to be something to let you know that there isnt something quite right with that person. Columbine, aurora, Tuscon, Norway....ive never met those shooters, but i can guarantee they all showed obvious symptoms of mental illness and someone close to those shooters chose to ignore the symptoms.

    people seem to think that if you see something strange, you should mind your own business and keep your mouth shut.........no, you should alert someone so that person can get the help they need and hopefully be prevented from hurting anyone.
     
  12. targetshooter22

    targetshooter22 Member

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    I think you are reacting to a tragedy without really thinking the issue through very thoroughly. Even the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill opposes such measures because they further stigmatize and demotivate people that need to seek help for easily treatable conditions. You also need to keep in mind that a lot of people briefly take these things to get through tough parts of life like the loss of loved ones, or a divorce. Does this mean that an adverse event in life should permanently bar someone from owning firearms? Does it mean the police should immediately seize their property as soon as they are diagnosed without due process? Furthermore think more about long term effects from laws - how could it be abused?

    Maybe we would be better off trying to figure out why people attacking a group of people is the solution to their problem(s) instead of writing a law that makes us feel like we did something.
     
  13. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    beeb173,
    The problem (as always) with trying to regulate "equipment" is that there are always more tools out there. Ban one item and a truly deranged person will just switch to something else and you'd be appalled at how creative a psychotic can be if they feel justified in their actions.

    The ONLY way we're going to get a handle on this is to figure out how to ID the nut-cases and other than some sort of embedded monitoring chip I really haven't been able to come up with a workable solution.

    And so those of use capable of handling the concept hit this issue from the other direction, namely that we know the crazy folks are out there and it's REALLY tough to id and stop them ahead of time, so we're going to do everything we reasonably can to stack the odds in our favor in the event that our number comes up in the bad-luck lottery.

    The truth is that none of the talk about the firearms is anything but a red-herring, a distraction away from the real point of this incident. The only point of significance is that a lunatic was not intercepted before he could commit murder and that lunatic control is the type of public-safety control we should be discussing in this country.

    Allowing this to become yet another conversation about firearms, which doesn’t address the real issue, is just more insanity.
     
  14. beeb173

    beeb173 Member

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    while i agree that drawing a line in the sand is counter productive, i'd REALLY like to keep this a high road type discussion. if people believe nothing needs to change, that's their opinion and should be respected.
     
  15. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    You clearly know nothing of physiological/psychiatric conditions and the related pharmaceutical treatments.

    Your knee-jerk reaction to this tragedy and obvious lack of knowledge on the subject of mental health are two very good reasons you should refrain from posting further on the matter.
     
  16. beeb173

    beeb173 Member

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    thanks for editing my post to make me look bad. good job.
     
  17. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    Beeb, that's as high road as it gets, a polite and thought out answer to counter opinions stated by other members, which I do not share....followed by my reasoning, and alternatives.
     
  18. targetshooter22

    targetshooter22 Member

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    I think there were a number of reasonably stated opinions. Nobody made any other person look bad.... But sometimes people don't state what they mean when they type. And I'll leave it (and my previous post) stand at that.
     
  19. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    So an anti-gun doctor or health group gets to decide which of his patients (IE: none) get to possess firearms and which don't? Really?!?

    Maybe we, as a country, should concentrate on punishing criminal acts committed by criminals whether they are mentally ill or not, and keeping those criminals out of the general population, instead of causing more hurdles and issues for the law abiding citizens. Every law passed to provide the illusion of government protection only serves to make it harder for Joe Citizen to have the means available to defend himself from the criminal who isn't going to obey the new law passed, just like they haven't obeyed any of the previous laws.
     
  20. TITAN308

    TITAN308 Member

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    I beg to differ.

    "All that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
     
  21. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    Not the time. Mourn like everyone else and debate when cooler heads will prevail.
     
  22. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    I think we need to address the problem, but addressing the tool isn't the way to do it. I think there are three sides to the problem:

    1) There is a growing epidemic in our country with people who are focused more on themselves than others around them, and who want instant gratification. This is fine for kids, but when you're an adult you need to look at the root of the problem instead of applying a bandaid. Gun control = bandaid. Solving social problems = cure.

    2) Most violent offenders (granted, not mass shooters) are repeat offenders. So why are we putting people in jail for victimless crimes (which could be regulated and taxed; better for everyone involved) instead of putting more police effort and jail real-estate towards stopping violence?

    3) Why is "misdemeanor" and "domestic violence" listed together on Form 4473? Is DV really a misdemeanor? And yet selling pot is a felony...

    4) Leading back to #1 (although the point in #1 was more regards for how people don't have respect nowadays), people don't see firearms as much nowadays, unless it's in the news. That's why there's a bigger push for gun control.
     
  23. splithoof

    splithoof Member

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    A tax? How about $1 for every cartridge purchased, and another $1 for every cartridge owned/possessed. The politicians will love you for that.
    As sad is it is, the 2nd says nothing about ammunition.
     
  24. jbrown50

    jbrown50 Member

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    RobsTV said it best.
     
  25. wtr100

    wtr100 Member

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    xxxxxxx
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2012
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