New Guy here: Walker or Dragoon?

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Hezekiah

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Greeting gents (and ladies), I am new to BP shooting and have fallen for it hard. I have an 1858 Remmy and want to get a Dragoon or Walker. First preference is the Walker, as I love power, but thought I'd ask about the loading lever issue. I know that the lever drops from time to time when shooting, but have also read that the Dragoons also do this. Is it your collective experience that they both have this characteristic? I ask, because if they both do this anyway, there is no advantage (to me) with the Dragoon (except being drop-dead gorgeous!). Anyhow, Glad to be here!
Thanks ahead of time!
 
First off, Dragoons and Walkers do not share the characteristic of dropping the loading lever. The Walker design used a "tang" that fits into a slot on the lever itself and holds it in place via spring tension of that tang. The Dragoons (1st, 2nd & 3rd Models) use a positive spring lock towards the end of the barrel and do not normally drop the loading lever during firing, unless something is broken, bent or wrong. (This of course comes with the disclaimer that someone out there will tell me theirs does this all the time.)

Be forwarned that neither of these guns is a "beginner" model. Of course that didn't stop me from buying my first Dragoon two weeks after my first BP pistol either.

If I were to give unsolicited advise (and I'm not because you asked), I would look for a nice used Dragoon to start with if for no other reason that it eats less powder, but not much less.

My reasoning behind this is as follows: The Walker was the first Colt design of it's kind and it did have a few bugs and only 1,000 were ever producd and sold to the military with another 100 going for civilian sales. The production run lasted less than a year and by that time Colt had designed the 1st Model Dragoon which corrected most of those bugs that the Walker suffered from. This is NOT to say that the Walker isn't one of the most unique and attention getting firearms Colt ever made, IT IS!!

My point to this is simply, by purchasing a Dragoon first and learning how to shoot that beast, you will be better prepared to learn to tame the mighty Walker. Besides, if you bought a Walker first you might never buy a Dragoon, but do it the other way around and I promise you will have both in less than a year!!

If you are going to purchase and shoot either one of these I would highly recommend using real Black Powder in them. Shooting substitute powder in either one of these Horse Pistols just doesn't have the same effect on those watching.
 
Most Walkers and some Dragoons drop their levers with the heavier loads. Either is an easy fix. With the Walker a slightly more abrubt angle on the catch hook with the Dragoon a heavier spring in the latch.
 
Thank you gents! I really like Joes advice on getting a Dragoon first...perfect excuse to buy another!!! I am glad to hear this load lever drop is not "inherent" by any means; you just read so many stories of this and end up not sure what to believe! Thanks for the help!
Kevin
 
With the WALKER, one merely ties a small strip of Cloth around the Barrel and Loading Lever, if one wants to ensure the Lever does not drop down when firing...the cloth slips off the Lever end, staying on the Barrel, for re-loading...then is slipped back over the Loading Lever, and cinched a little, to resume firing again.
 
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Not sure, but I think it was Mykeal that said he just removed the loading lever before shooting. It only takes one screw. I like folks that think outside the box.

Funny thing about those loading levers, sometimes they drop, sometimes they don't. This little video is the same Walker, same loads, two different stages:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtLWbw2QoSw

Anyway, don't let the "horror stories" of the loading lever dissuade you. If it happens, just pop it back up. That's why God gave us knees:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a68HbDLnftA :)
 
Another thing one can do, is, write the word "WALKER" on to a slip of Paper.

Then, write the word "DRAGOON" onto another slip of Paper.


Put both slips of Paper into a Hat.


Avert your Eyes, reach in, and draw out one at a time, and then read them.


This then represents the Raffle, and, one finds, that Both entrees 'won'.
 
A Walker or A Dragoon? Simple Answer.

Get the Walker first, keep your eye out for a good deal on a Dragoon and get them both. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. So what if you don't take a vacation this year. August is almost over anyway.:)

Great Videos there Pulp! I'll have to remember that technique for placing the loading lever back in place.
 
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Not sure, but I think it was Mykeal that said he just removed the loading lever before shooting. It only takes one screw. I like folks that think outside the box.
Click to expand...
Nope. Not me, but a good idea anyway. Mind if I take credit for it?


Actually, I'm like Pulp. I just use my knee....have not been successfully attacked by a paper target yet!
 
Walker....just because you need to have a copy of the world's first magnum handgun.







...in 5, 4, 3, ....
 
Either get both or get two of either one.

When I tried my Walker with 50 or 60 grains of 3F, it dropped the lever. It didn't drop the lever as much when I used 2F. It made as loud a bark and as much smoke, but the recoil was a bit smoother. You can use filler and safely load it with only 25 grains, but that would be like driving a Ferrari in a school zone. :)

My 3rd Model Dragoon hasn't dropped the lever, even with a max load of 50 grains of 3F. It also likes 2F. I've read that a Fender (or was it Gibson?) guitar pickup spring is a perfect fit as a replacement for the Dragoon lever retainer spring. I would like to try that with my Remington, it drops the lever with only 25 grains.
 
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I have a different view than most on this topic and expect to hear some dissonance but...

The Dragoon was a big improvement over the Walker. Realistically, the Walker was a failure in Colts eyes. He went on to improve it and continued selling revolvers. I have both and like them but shoot the Draogoons more frequently. My most used C&B revolver would be my 1860.
 
I think you can find Dragoon replicas with a Navy style latch. No drop problems with that design. The Walker latch and the Dragoon latch have easy fixes. You know you want both.
 
Holy cow! I did not expect such detailed help! You guys are awesome! I will post a pick of bachelorette number one or two, when I make my choice! My '58 Rem is pretty fun, but, being a recoil junkie, I gotta go big! 'thanks again!
Kevin
 
Colts Monopoly and the Evolution Begins...

"The Dragoon was a big improvement over the Walker. Realistically, the Walker was a failure in Colts eyes. He went on to improve it and continued selling revolvers. "

Strawhat

I should have such a failure. The Paterson was his first really big failure, but it led to the Walker. (I'd love to have a Paterson.) Then he did the Dragoons as "upgrades" and of course along came the Army and Navy Revolvers. He launched an International Corporation and bloody well changed the whole industry. Of course Remington came along and messed up his monopoly and forced him to cut his prices by half. Old Sam Colt was a real hustler, who made millions. I've got a replica of the Walker and just added a replica of the 1848 Dragoon, 3rd Ver, Great stuff.
 
StrawHat said:
The Dragoon was a big improvement over the Walker. Realistically, the Walker was a failure in Colts eyes. He went on to improve it and continued selling revolvers. I have both and like them but shoot the Draogoons more frequently.
Click to expand...

Ohhhh, now you've gone and done it!!!
For those of you with sensitive eyes, you might want to look away. Them's fightin' words to Walker owners!! Of course I didn't have the guts to say it when I posted my original answer to this thread, but like it or not 'tis true enough. But I do fully agree with ClemBert "Walker....just because you need to have a copy of the world's first magnum handgun.
" You can always get past the little foibles of owning one, but they will eat you out of house and home in powder unless you restrict your trips to the range a little.

2nd Dragoon Dropping Lever?
After my answer to this thread stating that Dragoons do not drop loading levers, I am now humble.

Took the Horse Pistol up in the mountains yesterday for some excercise (the gun not me of course). After 34 rounds down the pipe she dropped the loading lever on me. My mouth dropped open as well because it was just that morning that I had made my ill-fated statement about that not happening on Dragoons.

I loaded up another cylinder with my standard load, 45gr 3f Goex, about 8 gr cornmeal and a .454 stuffed into the hole to keep it all in until the desired moment. Once again two out of the six round dropped the lever. Since it was gettin on dark and I had an adult beverage waiting for me at the lodge I packed up and headed down the hill. I pulled the barrel, cylinder, nipples etc. and dropped them into a tub of HOT water and Dawn to soak until morning.

This morning I gets up and has my coffee while enjoying the sunshine in the mountains and contemplating the true meaning of life. Once I had given up on that theme I went into the kitchen and proceed to finish bathing the Dragoon. I'm putting her back together when I happened to notice I'm missing something...the block that dovetails into the barrel which holds the loading lever in place is nowhere to be seen, it was subsequently located in the bottom of my wash tub.

Needless to say, it appears that repeated pounding from 45gr of powder apparently loosened the dovetail. I dropped it off at the gunshop across from my house and he will undoubtedly return my prized Horse Pistol to better than new.

Wanna bet I won't make a blanket statement like that again? Yer probably right. Humility was just never in my genes.

You still should buy the Dragoon first...WHY? Simple, there's three of 'em!! You rotate.... Dragoon 2nd Model,.... Walker,.... Dragoon 1st Model,.... Whitneyville (good luck finding one),.... Dragoon 3rd Model. You could also substitute a Howdah for the Whitneyville. All in all you'll wind up with 5 big hand cannons and don't let anybody tell you that you can only shoot one at a time!!! They're Wrong!!!
 
I have Uberti 2nd Model Dragoon

I've had the Uberti 1858 (great design, superbly accurate), an 1860 (forgot which Italian make), and a Uberti 1851.

My friend has a Uberti Walker.

All are great guns. But here's my personal take. I wanted ONE BP revolver. I wanted it to be classic, to look good, and be satisfying in all respects.

For me it was the Uberti 2nd Model Dragoon. Why? Uberti because the finish and quality is the best in my opinion. Why the Dragoon? Because it's big. The 1851 and even 1858 and 1860 seem puny after shooting a Dragoon. Why not the Walker? For one, historically there were not many and they weren't used much. For another, my friend's Walker drops the lever regularly, which gets real old real fast. Third, the Dragoon is almost as big as a Walker. Fourth, I think the Dragoon's prettier, especially with the squared-off angle on the rear trigger guard. Fifth, it is dead-on accurate and hits hard. When I say "hits hard," in reality the ballistics are near that of a .45 ACP, which I personally consider having just enough power to be "adequate." Guns like the 1860 or 1858 have markedly less power.

I am satisfied in al respects with the 2nd Dragoon and do not miss any of the other BP revolvers I've had.
 
To be period correct the reproduction Walkers should have exploding cylinders to add an extra authenticity..... fortunately modern metals prevent this.
The small band of leather around the barrel and lever is a period correct fix in the field.
My 60 grains worth................:D
 
A Walker and a Dragoon

DSC02909.jpg
My Uberti replica of a 1848 Dragoon, 3rd model came in the mail today. She was made in 2008, and is in great shape. The previous owner knew his stuff.

I wanted one of each and since I'm still spending the kid's inheritance money, why not?
 
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