New Inland or Auto Ord M1 Carbine?

[scaatylobo]

got the Kahr

I bought a Kahr version of the .30 carbine.

NOT as nice as my old military model that is at least 50 years old [ or older ].

The stocks are too large,but good wood.

Action is a bit sticky,and REQUIRES break in with a few hundred rounds.

It was pricey at 700.00 a few years back,but cheaper than any good military models that I have seen [ over 1 K ].

I am thinking about buying old military stocks to replace the originals --- if they fit,and should.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Even if you have the skills to change out all the parts, which I do, you still end up with a Frankengun that has no historical value. If you have an all original then you must question whether you are going to actually shoot the firearm or admire it in the safe.

There is some disagreement about this among carbine enthusiasts. Some believe they do have some historical value. If they didn't the prices wouldn't be going through the roof right now. Many people restore carbines to have the same parts that they would have had coming from the mfg. Those carbines are not original, they have just had parts replaced again just as 99% of the USGI carbines have. The original or lightly used carbines that missed the depot rearsenal are in museums and collections. You won't be buying those for 1K or even 2K.

The point here is they are all Frankenguns. The Army made them that way when they stripped them, inspected every part and replaced them with either lightly used parts or new non-original parts. The original parts, including some barrels, was sold for scrap. Most of these carbines have been rebuilt several times with non original parts. Replacement parts like barrel bands, sights, safeties, etc. were new designs. Most of these carbines will never be "collectors". That's why people buy them, rebuild them and shoot them.

I don't have anything against the new carbines. I considered buying one myself until I found out that they are not allowed in competition. CMP has match rules and non USGI isn't allowed. If you don't shoot in CMP sanctioned events then a new one is probably the way to go if you just want a fun rifle. The prices for good condition USGI rifles goes up about $100 a year now because of import restrictions.

My carbine is an Inland with a Winchester barrel. Totally a Frankengun. Very reliable and an excellent shooter. I have maybe $800 in it after replacing a few parts. I bought it in 2013.

 

[Olympus]

I guess I don't see the issue with cast for receivers.

 

[maxxhavoc]

I guess I don't see the issue with cast for receivers.

OK, so here's how this works, in very simplified terms.

Forged steel is a solid, hardened chunk of metal that the final receiver is cut out of. A steel forging, for the most part, can be treated as a known good quality. Changes to the good steel are made by cutting away the unnecessary parts.

Cast steel is essentially poured (keeping it more simple than technically correct here) into molds in the shape the part needs to be. It is then heat treated for strength. A possible problem is that voids will form inside the metal based on how pure the metal is, and the processes and quality control used. A casting can be essentially as good as forged, or as crappy as the zipper pulls on luggage that break all the time.

Compare it to reloaded ammo, and you won't be far off. Can reloaded ammo be as good (or better) than Federal Gold Medal Match? Yes. Does it mean that all reloaded ammo is better? No. A person using meticulous processes and double-checking each step will probably make better ammo than Federal's machines. The guy selling it in baggies at the flea market? Probably not. You probably don't want it too close to your face when you pull the trigger. The only way to tell if you can trust the ammo is the reputation of the manufacturer.

The same is true of casting. As far as I am concerned, Ruger has mastered casting to the point that I would not hesitate to trust their work. On a knock-off M1 Carbine that you don't even know the name of the company that cast the receiver? Not so much. Or a company that is relatively new at making the product and you don't have a good history of their work? Maybe.

M1 Carbines don't have a lot of bolt surface area, and if the hammering of the lugs stretches or distorts the receiver it can change the headspace. The quality of the metal determines if and when this will happen. Forged receivers are (for the most part) uniformly made of consistent steel. Cast receivers are made of steel whose strength and consistency are determined by the manufacturer's attention to detail and quality. If you trust the manufacturer, no problem.

With that said, I have an AO carbine I use and like. I keep an eye on headspace, but I am still wary of it. A Ruger Mini? I just keep shooting it.

That kinds went long, and that was with me oversimplifying details to a ridiculous extent. Either way, that's my take on it.

 

[CoalTrain49]

M1 carbine has a low pressure compared to most rifles but it's still more than most pistol cartridges. Although the barrel and bolt take most of the pressure, an open bolt or excessive head space is going to put a lot of stress on the receiver. Gov't mil spec for AR's is for forged receivers, about twice the strength of cast. Think about building an AR. Are you going to buy a cast receiver or forged? That would probably answer the question.

 

[boom boom]

Maxxhavoc,

Regarding the whole cast versus forged issue, I salute you for giving both their strengths and weaknesses.

Regarding the Kahrs and other clones, I have seen one after the fact that blew up shortly after purchase. Now, the guy shooting with my Father in Law (FIL) was a sloppy handloader and did not checkgage his cartridges. The rifle was brand new and this guy might not have cleaned it and relubed it properly. That being said, the gun blew up out of battery which pretty much put paid to it. Fortunately the guy shooting it was not injured. I got to see it because he and two friends each ordered a carbine but the dealer only got one. My FIL and the other potential owner let the third guy have the rifle because they were being nice. It blew up on the first range visit--needless to say my FIL and his friend cancelled their order for the Auto Ordnance replica and went to the CMP for theirs. He and his friend have never had a lick of trouble from those CMP "Frankenguns".

 

[Jimster]

I've returned my new Inland Mfg M1 carbine twice because of failure to cycle and first they replaced the bolt because of poor hardening and the second time they replaced the entire barrel/receiver assembly and sent me t-shirt and new 15 round mag. It works fine with 10 rounds loaded into the mag but any more and it won't feed the round. I might try to get a Korean made mag and see if that solves the problem. Very disappointing experience so far for a $1,049 carbine.

 

[Olympus]

I've returned my new Inland Mfg M1 carbine twice because of failure to cycle and first they replaced the bolt because of poor hardening and the second time they replaced the entire barrel/receiver assembly and sent me t-shirt and new 15 round mag. It works fine with 10 rounds loaded into the mag but any more and it won't feed the round. I might try to get a Korean made mag and see if that solves the problem. Very disappointing experience so far for a $1,049 carbine.

Thanks for the info! That's great to know about these new Inlands.

 

[maxxhavoc]

Sounds like they are trying to take care of you, at least. What was the turnaround for those repairs?

 

[Jimster]

About a week on the first trip and almost three weeks on the second trip. They are very friendly to deal with and seem genuinely intent on making things right.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I might try to get a Korean made mag and see if that solves the problem.

It might. I've had very good luck with USGI mags. A very large quantity of those were just sold over on the CMP website for around $20 a piece. I bought 20 of them at that price. They came from Germany or Austria, some unissued in cosmoline.