New Jersey carry permit requirements

The interim New Jersey Permit To Carry, Use of Force and Safe Handling and Proficiency qualification has been published by the NJ State Police.





The proficiency requirements are fairly tough. How do they compare to those in other states?
If I recall correctly from the one and only CCW class I took 25 years ago - before I decided not to bother carrying a gun - in Florida the two requirements are:
1 - your check doesn’t bounce; and, 2 - you’re still breathing. In theory you should have taken a class which certifies that you are safe using your carry weapon and versed in the state’s armed defense laws. In theory…
 
I'm ALL for proficiency...
But that course of fire for any civilian outside of FBI training academy is absolutely ridiculous.

It won't stand up under lawsuit as to even a remote "reasonableness" test.
 
The interim New Jersey Permit To Carry, Use of Force and Safe Handling and Proficiency qualification has been published by the NJ State Police.





The proficiency requirements are fairly tough. How do they compare to those in other states?

Interesting.

I haven't had time to read the entire thing, but there's actually a LOT of good information there, at least in the first few pages. A lot of it appears to be stuff we occasionally talk about here.

I don't think much of their course of fire at the end. There's an aweful lot of emphasis on reholstering an uncocked weapon. There are plenty of firearms that I would NOT want to get into the habit of "uncocking" because they involve dropping a hammer with a round in the chamber. My 1991A1, for example. 1911 style firearms don't have a decocker and you can't drop the hammer with the safety on.

Not to mention there are plenty of striker fired semiautomatics that have no decocking means at all. Nor a manual safety. You can't shoot their course of fire with a Glock, for instance, because you can't follow their instructions to the letter.

It's almost as if they wrote the course of fire for revolvers. And even so, suppose I decided I wanted to shoot my Colt SAA? That's not a double action at all.

And the "physical or simulated barricades are recommended..." and used at the discretion of the instructor? Umm...no. Either require them or do not require them. Don't allow loopholes that one region may deliberately use to make things more difficult than in other regions.

Appendix B clearly states the four things a person is required to demonstrate. However, none of the material is codified. And the course of fire goes beyond those stated requirements.

Also, if this is a "basic familiarization" training course, having a person with little, if any, experience or training do repeated draw/fire/drop hammer/reholster loaded weapon, plus times of 2 to 3 second for some, it a bit...ridiculous.
 
Typical of NJ; make things so difficult and/or expensive that the average citizen won't bother. Consider: you, first, must apply for a Firearm Purchaser Identification Card; next, a Permit to Purchase a handgun; finally, a Permit to Carry. Each step along the way requires fingerprinting, references, a background check, and, of course, a fee.

Here in South Carolina, we require a one-day class on applicable statutes and the firing of 25 rounds at various ranges up to 12 yds, 70 percent of which need to stay in the silhouette. There is no fee for the permit, and even the fingerprinting is paid by the State.
 
As the link was broken, I went to the horse's mouth (if after rather a lot of searching, NJ Code appears to model it's structure on IRS Code o_O)
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2022/title-2c/section-2c-58-4
Digging down into 2C-54:4, we get to (g):
g. Training requirement. (1) On or prior to the first day of the seventh month following the enactment of P.L.2022, c.131 (C.2C:58-4.2 et al.), the superintendent shall establish training requirements in the lawful and safe handling and storage of firearms, which shall consist of an online course of instruction, in-person classroom instruction, and target training administered by a certified firearm instructor on a firing range approved by the superintendent and on the list of approved ranges published on the State Police website. The training shall include, but not be limited to, demonstration of a level of proficiency in the use of a handgun in such

as required by the superintendent and training, developed or approved in conjunction with the Police Training Commission, on justification in the use of deadly force under State law
So, that means we have to go find that training requirement elsewhere.
Which appears to be a hot popular topic, as the server appears to be crashed.

For the Texas LTC, the standards can be found here:
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/fids/201700716-1.pdf

LTC TC Req.png
 
As the link was broken, I went to the horse's mouth (if after rather a lot of searching, NJ Code appears to model it's structure on IRS Code o_O)
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2022/title-2c/section-2c-58-4
Digging down into 2C-54:4, we get to (g):



So, that means we have to go find that training requirement elsewhere.
Which appears to be a hot popular topic, as the server appears to be crashed.

For the Texas LTC, the standards can be found here:
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/fids/201700716-1.pdf

View attachment 1163565

*Jerry Miculek steps up with a S&W Performance Center built 8 shot revolver*

"All right, you wanna film this one?"

:rofl:
 
Some good points have raised. I hadn't even considered the problem with the decocking requirement.

Do you think that a 25 yard distance for the first course of fire is excessive when you consider the application of deadly force in a real world situation?
 
While longer range encounters are not as rare as we sometimes like to think, they are still the exception, rather than the rule. That being said, the 25 yd qual course seems a bit excessive, considering NJ's "duty to retreat." Yes, I know the "duty to retreat" does not apply in one's home; but who among us has a home that affords a 25yd shot?
 
Do you think that a 25 yard distance for the first course of fire is excessive when you consider the application of deadly force in a real world situation?
That target is 20 in wide and 32 in tall. It's very easy for even a marginally competent shooter to hit that at 25 yards, especially with the amount of time they're giving folks in that test.
 
My initial take from a brief read is they're telling you you're not a cop, you can't even carry over than .75 Oz. pepper spray, but we want you to be able to shoot like a cop, or better. And you're required to shoot from a kneeling position, so they want you to be young and fit enough to be a cop.

With a full size service pistol it's not too bad. I think average people, in average shape, can be trained to do this in a day or a weekend. But it's not as if you can expect a novice to pass his first time, especially not with typical carry guns.

Ridiculous requirement for a grandma or granddad that wants to carry to avoid getting robbed or shot at an ATM. One of the reasons they want the permit is they can't see well and can't move fast.

As for how it compares to other states- Virginia didn't have a shooting requirement when I got my permit. In Florida, the instructor has to watch you discharge a firearm safely- this can be a shot into a clearing barrel. North Dakota is at 7 yards and 15 yards on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper, 70% pass, isn't timed. Puerto Rico was similar to ND, if I remember correctly.

So, yeah, NJ is an outlier.
 
Some good points have raised. I hadn't even considered the problem with the decocking requirement.

Do you think that a 25 yard distance for the first course of fire is excessive when you consider the application of deadly force in a real world situation?

Yes, though to be fair this is only a small part of the course of fire.

The purported purpose of these "qualification shoots" isn't to evaluate a person's capabilities on an advanced level. As well it shoulden't be. Basically, it's a demonstration of basic safety handling, firearm function, and ability to load and fire the weapon.

That's it. That's all there's time for, with 50 rounds of ammunition. (25 rounds for my state, SC, as someone above pointed out.)

Such courses of fire should not go beyond this, because practically speaking it takes THOUSANDS of rounds to gain the levels of proficiency the media THINKS people ought to have.
 
I read thru the requirements. I think other than the kneeling thing I would not have a whole lot of trouble with it. My knees no longer support kneeling or getting up afterward.

The decocking thing seems odd though since few modern guns need to be decocked (or even can be decocked) and with some guns like a 1911 it is a really bad idea.
 
MOD NOTE: LEGAL IS NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS WHICH STATES ARE MORE OR LESS FREE, OR WHAT WE WISH THE LAW WAS. IT'S THE PLACE TO DISCUSS WHAT THE LAW IS.
Sorry about that.

And this is still probably on the edge of off topic for this section. It's obvious from this thread that NJ is far more restrictive than other states. Is it possible this is unconstitutional? Like voting tests in the Jim Crow days? And that a future decision could kick it out?
 
Sorry about that.

And this is still probably on the edge of off topic for this section. It's obvious from this thread that NJ is far more restrictive than other states. Is it possible this is unconstitutional? Like voting tests in the Jim Crow days? And that a future decision could kick it out?
Yea, it’s very possible and I’d be shocked if NJ weren’t already getting sued over it.
 
The interim New Jersey Permit To Carry, Use of Force and Safe Handling and Proficiency qualification has been published by the NJ State Police.





The proficiency requirements are fairly tough. How do they compare to those in other states?
That is more intensive at 25 yards than my Department requires. I think I might shoot that to see how hard it really is - it is quite interesting, and FAR more than any civilian CCW carrier needs. The longest shot a CCW permit holder should qualify on is really 15 yards. This is an obvious attempt to make sure the normal civilian CCW permit applicant cannot pass. I know some officers who would find that difficult to pass.
 
“15-Yard Line. Time: 5 seconds. 3 rounds. Point shoulder position.”


From a secured holster, that’s gonna be tough for a lot of people.

And..What is “point Shoulder Position”?

Are we talking about this?

1690602600807.jpeg

If so…New Jersey? 1970 called, they'd like their firearms training back. Along with the dump pouches.
 
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I approximated it today using my late Uncle's Charter Arms Pathfinder .22 off the indoor range bench top instead of a holster and NOT kneeling. 90%, I dropped one shot at 15 yards and four at 25; but I was aiming in all cases. I tried a string "point shoulder" and it got ugly fast.
 
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