New LeMat?

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Dnaltrop

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One of the "holes" in my small collection has been the lack of a decent black powder gun, and while lining up my mental list, and beginning to save up... I came across this.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/bpLeMat.tpl

Anyone Shot one yet? Better off starting with a Walker or more "normal" pistol?
Conversion Cylinder?

Does the Conversion cylinder (if exists) also convert the 20g Shotgun?

5 Lbs... but for 9+1, Who cares?
 
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These occasionally show up in movies and on the history channel but very little has actually been written about them. This is from a chapter on the Lemat . it has its on set of problems but many of them derive from the original revolver rather than the replicas. Pietta seems to take extra care with this replica compared to some of their other efforts/.

The
nine-shot capacity of the revolver and the auxiliary smooth bore barrel set it apart from
the familiar percussion revolvers on both sides of the Atlantic.
The LeMat was of the familiar single action type with a half-cock that released the
cylinder so that it could rotate for loading. The hammer nose fit over the partition
between the nipples affording a safe carry mode much like that of the Colt and
Remington. In normal firing, the hammer nose remained in an upward orientation held by
a spring running down the hammer face. The shooter could flick the nose downward to
align it with the nipple of the smooth bore barrel. The revolver found favor with a
number of southern officers. The French based company remained in operation until
1885. Cartridge versions were popular with the French guards at the Devil’s Island prison
and elsewhere. Records indicate that about 2,800 were delivered to the Confederate
forces during the Civil War. One little-known offshoot is a fully stocked carbine. There
are also smaller versions of the revolver know as "Baby LeMats."

Pietta Replica
In the 1980s, Navy Arms Company contracted with the Pietta firm to produce replicas
of three variations of the LeMat naming them the Army, Navy and Cavalry Models.
While the replicas are true to original LeMat revolvers, the names are not historically
correct. The revolvers remain in distribution through Navy Arms Company, Cabela's and
Dixie Gun Works and a few sutlers. They are expensive relative to other caplock replicas
and there is not much information about their shooting qualities or basic maintenance.
Our observations come from two examples, both of which function very much alike
and present similar issues in the areas of design and execution. The first revolver was a
Navy Arms Cavalry Model several years old. The current example, also a Cavalry Model,
built in 2004, came from Dixie Gun Works. The metal and grip finish on the earlier
model appears superior to the new revolver but the newer one has a lighter trigger pull.
Both exhibit perfect revolver function and timing. The chamber mouth diameter on the
current revolver measures .447-inch as does the groove to groove and forcing cone
measurements of the barrel. The .451-inch diameter ball is correct and a ring of lead
shears from the ball during seating.
The shot barrel is .635-inch and, with both revolvers, does not function reliably
without special treatment. Also poorly designed and problematic is the loading lever
assembly. The internal lockwork is quite robust and functionally reliable. The cylinder
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cam is a circular spring - adjustable by means of a timing screw that impinges through the
right side of the frame. The cylinder locking bolt is a cam operated rod powered by a coil
spring and should be much more durable than the flat spring-operated bolt of the Colts.
The trigger-return spring performs only the function of resetting the trigger and is much
larger than the combination bolt/trigger spring of other designs.
Shooting the Lemat
The loading lever of the LeMat works by compound linkage by pulling the arm up and
backward to move the short seating ram into the chamber. It aligns with the eleven
o'clock chamber-a circumstance that proves less salubrious than the lever positioning of
the Colt and Remington revolvers. One shooter of a modern replica experienced an
eleven o'clock chain fire that carried off his loading lever assembly. Such occurrences
with the Colt and Remington seldom damage the revolvers. The lever arm is hollow and
contains a separate ramrod for loading the shot barrel. This ramrod must remain inside
the assembly during seating or the arm will bend. The chambers are shorter than other .44
revolvers. They hold a charge of about 30 grains of FFFg or Pyrodex P. Because of the
short throw of the ram; lighter charges would need filler material to allow full seating of
the ball. This is a heavy revolver and recoil is quite mild. Upon firing, the loading lever
bounces up out of the fragile, U-shaped retaining stirrup and flings the ramrod out on the
ground. Frequent tightening of the main loading lever screw will minimize this. The
barrel latch at the bottom-front of the frame will unseat and drop downward when the gun
fires. This becomes worse as the gun breaks in. A paper wedge will correct the tendency.
Launching of the central ramrod is a problem and the thing will become lost unless firmly
wedged into the hollow ram handle. Some shooters report that the loaded and capped shot
barrel will fire inadvertently during normal shooting of the revolver. In general though,
the shot barrel will not fire at all without multiple strikes of the hammer.
The revolver is quite accurate at twenty-five yards and handles fired percussion caps
very reliably. Functional hang-ups almost never occur. Nine rounds routinely go down
range with perfect and repeatable reliability. Point of impact from our examples was
approximately four inches above point of aim at 25 yards. Lateral adjustment was perfect.
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Firing the Shot Barrel-Problematic
Very likely, the traits of the replica revolvers discussed to this point are the same as
with the originals. One original development was replacement of the barrel latch with a
more positive screw/turn-lug attachment. The lack of reliability from the shot barrel may
very well stem from the difference in modern lead stipenate percussion caps and the
original and very volatile mercury fulminate caps used in the 19th Century. With the
hammer rotated downward to fire the shot barrel, length of throw is less than one inch.
The nose strikes the cap at an angle. Even with the very strong LeMat main spring, there
is not enough force to set off a primer on the first hit. For reliable ignition of the shot
barrel it is necessary to stone down the Remington or CCI caps until the top of the cup is
foil-thin. (The percussion cap could possibly go off and cause injury during this process.)
The CCI cap requires about twice the stoning as the Remington to arrive at the same
amount of reduction. It is also beneficial to make sure the nipple and ignition channel are
free of any lubricant. References to the proper charge for the shot barrel are few and
suspect. Navy Arms suggests loading a sixty-caliber ball over no more than 25 grains of
FFFg or substitute. Pietta, the manufacturer, suggests ¾ to one ounce of buck shot with
35 grains of powder. We have used a number of combinations of shot loads ranging from
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seven or eight 31 caliber balls to 3/4ounce of shot ranging from # 2 to #8 over charges of
Pyrodex P ranging from twenty-five to sixty grains/volume equivalent. The twenty-fivegrain
charge, well wadded and packed in, will barely discharge the shot from the barrel.
The heavier loads are well over the maximum from any published source. The shooter
who uses them does so at his own risk. They cause considerable recoil, and even then, the
buckshot bounces off seasoned wood that a .22 Long Rifle round would fully penetrate.
The buck shot rounds will stay within the confines of a man-sized silhouette at 20 feet,
and not beyond that range. .31-inch buckshot will penetrate a 1” pine board at 20 feet
(except for shot on the outside edge of the pattern) and #8 Birdshot will penetrate to a
depth of 3/8” with small game-effective patterns to forty feet.
Loads: Two LeMat Replicas Velocity Spread
Revolver 1 .451” Ball 28 Pyrodex P 835 fps 60
Revolver 2 .451” Ball 28 Pyrodex P 699 fps 109
Revolver 2 .451 “ Ball 28 Goex FFFg 701 fps 78
Revolver 2 .451 “ Ball 24 H777 816 fps 96
Revolver 2 .451” Ball 28 Swiss FFFg 796 fps 87
The accessory bullet mould produces a round-nosed slug with a single lubrication
groove. Bullets from that mould are very pretty, but will not work in the Lemat because
they are too long to fit under the seating stem.
The LeMat, once the shooter has become accustomed to the acute grip angle, handles
and shoots very comfortably. The hammer is hard to cock compared to the Colt or
Remington. The very heavy hammer spring is necessary if there is to be any hope of
getting the shot barrel to fire.
Routine Disassembly
Place the unloaded revolver on half-cock and then pull downward on the barrel latch.
(This is at the bottom of the frame and may have the alternative knurled screw/turn-lug
feature.)
Then unscrew the Barrel from the Shot barrel and pull forward to remove. Lift out the
cylinder. The shot barrel will also unscrew from the breach and may come off with initial
cylinder removal.
Remove grips. This is about as far as dismounting can proceed without special tools.
Both of our examples and every other LeMat replica we have heard of present a major
challenge to disassemble to the degree needed for parts replacement or thorough cleaning. It is necessary to make a split/spanner screwdriver blade to remove the sideplate nut which the frees the screw retaining the hammer.

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If you are not much for easy you could try the Pietta Starr DA, the Lemat is surprisingly handy considering the weight, and mine has not had any issues, but admittedly I almost never mess with the shotgun barrel, it's true enough that sometimes you have to snap it a few times before it will go. I prefer the Rogers & Spencer or one of my Colts, you can't go wrong with the Remington either, I have my eye on a steel frame Remington .31 sometime soon.
 
Yes. if you don't like easy, the Pietta Starr Replica is the one to get. It is a ballistic bowel movement and a half. The originals were not great. One general said that whoever foisted the Starr off on a nation at war should be hanged for treason.
Many owners of the replicas would like to hang a responsible party also. A few of them work poorly but most of them don't work at all. There seems to be some evidence that the single action ones are a bit more likely to work than the DAs but neither are worth the powder required to blow them to perdition
 
FWIW, the double action Starr isn't really double action, it is what is called a trigger cocker. In other words, the trigger cocks the hammer then, depending on the position of a little "selector switch" on the back of the trigger, either contacts the sear and fires the gun, or leaves the hammer cocked. In the latter case, the shooter releases the trigger to go forward, inserts the index finger into the space behind the trigger, and presses the sear, firing the gun "single action." Most folks encountering the gun for the first time try to cock the hammer in the conventional way for SA fire, but that won't work. The small hammer spur is only for lowering the a cocked hammer safely without firing.

My comment is only that it was different. Not especially good, but different.

In the Pietta I tried, the selector wouldn't move and the gun wouldn't stay cocked at all, no matter what. I hope others were better.

Jim
 
In the Pietta I tried, the selector wouldn't move and the gun wouldn't stay cocked at all, no matter what. I hope others were better.

I have one and I guess I got lucky, the selector works and the trigger & sear both operate as advertized.
It is an awkward design and really not a particularly well thought out one. The bolt is pointy and fit into slitlike lugs cut into the cylinder. Not IMHO a reliable design.
Also, this bolt is attached to the trigger and when the shot is fired, it of course moves down, and the cylinder is held in place then by another projection that fits into the heel of the cylinder. <----- another pointlessly complicated and problematic concept.

Now, the gun is interesting overhall in design......but if it were 1863 and I was a cavalryman I think I'd really really really want a simple design---like a Colt 1860 which is just overall a MUCH BETTER military gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The LeMat is more reliable then the Starr's. LeMat's biggest problem is the loading lever and it's retention strap, not as robust as it could be. Reliability of the shot barrel can be improved by sanding the cap slightly thinner. The hammer has a short fall on the shot barrel and not a lot of energy.

My Starr DA works as claimed, has been reliable and is defiantly different. My SA Starr had a bit more learning curve. It functions perfect if I stay away from the half cock notch. If I place the hammer at half cock the bolt well invariably lock the cylinder up. Once I learned to bring the hammer to full cock, load, drop hammer and re-cock to load again it has been fine.

These three revolvers are fun to shoot, attract attention at the range but if I were to need a revolver for serious work they would not be my first choice.
 
thought so i read them both so many times i think i got parts memorized. When are you going to make another one. Maybe you should do one on flintlocks.
 
spending my money elsewhere now. I actually did get a start on flintlocks but found that I suck with flintlocks and it kind of petered out.
 
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