new loader-test loads?

[Axis II]

as most of you may know im a new reloader. I have everything I need right now to start loading ammo. I have read my books, got all my cases prepped, etc.

My question is guys say start from low to high and load 5rds. My range is about an hour+ away so its hard to load 5rds shoot them, load 5 the next day to try out.

How would you go about loading if in my shoes?

Say my Hornady 9th edition says H335 Min Charge is 20.8 gn and the Max Charge is 23.2 gn for 55gr V max. how would you do that so I don't have to make multiple trips to the range?

my set up is 100yard range, h335 powder, benchmark powder, 55gr hornady V max, 55gr hornady 55GR SP, Remington, hornady, mixed-once fired brass. cci 440-br4 primers.

all brass has been full length sized, checked in lyman case checker, trimmed using lyman E-Z- TRIM, de-burr and chamfered. I have rcbs dies, lyman micro touch scale, lyman and hornady manuals. I am using a lee C press, lee prefect powder measure.

Gun-Savage 223 Heavy barrel 1-9 twist. the gun loves nothing but v maxes so my goal is to load some woodchuck hunting rounds and target loads. my goal is to get the most accurate round I can make.

anything I left out or other suggestions are open.

 

[jwrowland77]

Ok, you have your min and max range of 20.8 and 23.2.

Start your work up at 21, then 21.3, 21.6 and so on until you get to 23.2 or close. Load 3-5 of each charge all the way up. Then take them all to the range and shoot them on different targets.

There's tons of target places under Google search you can printout for testing loads.

 

[jwrowland77]

Heck, even Midway has targets you can print off.

 

[Newtosavage]

I print off my own "targets" which are nothing more than a blank piece of printer paper with two 2" black squares on them.

As for my approach, I'm fairly new too and I start at the recommended starting load with 3 rounds ea., then increasing by .5 grains per 3 round test load up to the max load. This has worked pretty well for me. The max loads usually are pretty hot in my experience and although I've gone over those in my 7x57 (because I have a modern gun that can handle the pressures), I usually start to see pressure signs at or just beyond the published max load for my .308 and 7.62x39. So that's reassuring to me.

Yes, it's kinda scary when you first get started, but after a while, you'll begin to sense when you have reached a max load (recoil will usually be much sharper and if you have a chronograph, the velocity may spike).

I live about 30 miles from my range, so if I know I'm going to the range the next day, I try to load everything I can think of and take it all with me. I usually go with rounds from at least two rifles too, so I can shoot one while the other one is cooling down. I also take a .22 handgun to plink with while they are cooling down, to help pass the time.

And don't be afraid to try different bullets than the V-max. You might just find something your gun likes even more.

 

[murf]

bring a notebook to write down everything. load data and results, environmental conditions, a running commentary on how the shoot is going (good things and bad things).

temp and wind conditions are important.

luck,

murf

 

[Bart B.]

I suggest you shoot at least 10 shots per load. Nobody I know of shoots two or more 3-shot groups with the same load and they're all the same size and all centered at the same point. And the first one shot is rarely the smallest.

15 or 20 shots per load is much better.

 

[Reloadron]

Say my Hornady 9th edition says H335 Min Charge is 20.8 gn and the Max Charge is 23.2 gn for 55gr V max. how would you do that so I don't have to make multiple trips to the range?

So I would likely load five to ten rounds starting around 21 grains bump in 0.5 grain intervals up to a maximum of 23.0 grains. That will give you between 25 and 50 rounds to try. Looking over each spent case as you fire them. Why did I get so close to the maximum load? I went that high because the Hornady 9th really has light load data as we have seen when comparing it to other published load data and also this ammunition is going into a beefy bolt gun and not a gas operated AR type rifle. I have an old Hodgdon Powder data sheet that takes H-335 up to over 25 grains with a 55 grain bullet. This is why I would not be concerned with getting close to the maximum. You have a 2.4 grain spread between minimum and maximum. If you are uncomfortable with 0.5 grain increments you could start with the suggested minimum and bump up in 0.4 grain increments and run from the minimum 20.8 grains up to 22.8 grains. That will give you 5 loads over a 2 grain spread and again at 5 to ten per increment about 25 to 50 loaded rounds to try.

Eventually you will have more different bullets and powders to try for each range trip.

Ron

 

[Reloadron]

I suggest you shoot at least 10 shots per load. Nobody I know of shoots two or more 3-shot groups with the same load and they're all the same size and all centered at the same point. And the first one shot is rarely the smallest.

15 or 20 shots per load is much better.

Have to strongly agree, my minimums are 10 rounds. I shoot them in 5 shot groups.

Ron

 

[Dudedog]

Here are a couple targets you can print off.
I would start with the start charge and bump up maybe .3gr at a time. Then pick the best of those and work around that at .1
For example if 22.3 seemed best on first test I might go back and load 22.1, 22.2 ,22.3 , 22.4 and 22.5. Sometimes I have seen .1 make a difference but if your using mixed brass
up probably won't notice a .1 gr difference.
Part of it depends on how much effort is involved to test. It is a 2 hour round trip for me so I will spend a little more time loading test rounds due to the drive time.
Very general statement but for .223 I usually find something in the middle and something close to MAX work out best for me.

 

[Axis II]

do we agree on 5 or 10 of one powder charge? i take it that's 5-10 of start then 5-10 of .3gr higher?

now seeing how I have benchmark and h335 would you guys load some with h335 and some with benchmark? I would load the h335 then empty the powder measure then load benchmark all by what the book says.

now I seen it quoted a lyman book 55gr sp and the hornady book v max. isn't the v max pretty much a SP?

 

[Rule3]

What Bart B said. Load at least 10 of each

Hornady data for H335 is very conservative but it does work. I loaded may of the low end H335 with 55 grain bullets and they work just fine especially in a bolt gun, Yes the cycled an AR 15 also.

You do not need to get all your "tests' done in one trip. You will have at least 50 rounds all with H335 or whatever powder you try.

 

[Reloadron]

The Hornady V-Max.
1. Polymer Tip
The polymer tip increases the ballistic coefficient and also initiates dramatic expansion upon impact – even at velocities as low as 1600 fps.

The Noslet Ballistic Tip.
1 Nosler Ballistic Tip®
Streamlined polymer tip, color-coded by caliber, resists deformation in the magazine and initiates expansion upon impact.

The V-Max is sort of Hornady's answer to Nosler's "Ballistic Tip" and neither is really a soft point as there is no exposed lead on the tip.

A soft-point bullet (SP round or JSP for short), also known as a soft-nosed bullet, is a lead expanding bullet with a copper or brass jacket that is left open at the tip, exposing some of the lead inside and is thus an example of a semi-jacketed round. Side by side comparison with a hollow-point bullet and FMJ ammunition will quickly illustrate the difference.

The bullet is designed to expand making it a good hunting type bullet design. Hornady and Nosler in the linked examples took pretty much a jacketed hollow point bullet and replaced the lead tip with a polymer tip. Over the years there has been some argument as to if the tip even remains in tact during flight. Not being the hunting type my knowledge is somewhat limited, I have used quite a few Nosler Ballistic Tips but that was years ago.

As to loading? When trying new loads I always load 10 rounds as a minimum of each load. I generally step my powder charges across the load span. I call each step a cardinal point. Benchmark is an extruded powder and well suited for the .223 Remington. Using Benchmark with a 55 grain bullet as an example:
Minimum Load: 20.0 grains
Maximum Load: 22.2 grains
Span = 22.2 - 20.0 = 2.2 grains (Max Load - Min Load)

So if I want 5 cardinal points across the span I get 2.2 / 5 = 0.44 grains so I would load in 0.4 grain increments or 20.0, 20.4, 20.8, 21.2, 21.6 and in this case I may add a load of 22.0 grains. I load 10 EA. but that is up to the individual. How I happen to do it does not make it a holy grail. That would give me 60 rounds.

Now if you have 50 or so rounds of H-335 and another 50 or 60 of Benchmark you have at least 100 rounds to take notes on.

Yes, you empty and clean the powder measure between powders and make sure you remove all of the previous powder. A good practice is to never have more than a single (One) powder on the bench at any given time.

Ron

 

[Axis II]

Ron

what would a v max be in lyman 49th?

I also have the powders separated away from the bench. with the lee perfect measure I emptied the hopper and turned the handle about 20 times until nothing came out then shook it. any other ways to make sure its 100% empty?

Ill be trying them out at the grandriver target range in west Farmington around next Saturday or sunday.

 

[Reloadron]

If I had to put it somewhere it would be a 55 grain SPT only for the matter of weight. When using the Lyman manuals we need to keep things sort of generic in some cases. We can have a 40 grain V-Max or a 60 grain V-Max but alas no 55 grain V-Max and we know one clearly exist. Lyman does a good job but Lyman is about bullet casting and bullet molds. Anyway, if I had to put it somewhere it would be the load data for a 55 grain SPT.
Most of this stuff is forgiving and when we find ourselves in grey areas we are reminded why we start low and work up. Like the stock market, buy low and sell high.

Your method for "empty" sounds good to me.

Ron

 

[njl]

If the range is a long haul from home, I'd do one of two things.

a) Look into making up a portable loading setup. Your brass would be all prepped and primed, so you'd just need to charge with powder, seat, and crimp.

b) Load 10-20 of all the various powder charges you think you might reasonably end up with, and shoot them in one range trip, starting with the lowest powder charge, and work your way up. If you get the velocity/accuracy you want on the way up, you don't have to shoot the max loads...those can be disassembled back at home.

 

[Axis II]

No way to load at the range as its public and ran by the state.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Pretty much what these guys said....
I load 5-10 of each, start at the low end and build up in .2 to .3 gr increments. Then haul it all with you and test them out.

And definitely take notes on conditions like wind and temperature, as well as functioning characteristics of the weapon you're running them through. It's nice to be able to refer back to them, for whatever reason.

I usually find what I want before I even go through all my prototypes, either because I stumble across the sweet spot, or because a heavier load may disagree with my equipment (sticky bolt, etc)

I do it that way, prepping it all ahead of time....and I only have to walk around to the back yard!

 

[Reloadron]

No way to load at the range as its public and ran by the state.

When you do get out there make sure you share how the day went. I am planning some indoor range time and want some sweet warm and dry weather to get on the outside range. I like sunshine and at least the 60s.

Ron

 

[rg1]

2 tenths intervals from min to maximum from Hornady data will give you approx. 130 rounds to test. 4 tenths about 70 rounds loading 10 rounds of each charge. Too many to do a range test at least at my range. All the clears and short shooting sessions and you'd be there all weekend before getting all them tested. Time to let the barrel cool between groups, probably cleaning would be a good idea after a certain number of shots. I also predict it will take at least 2 or more trips to find the best your rifle will shoot a certain bullet. Add one more powder to the 10 rounds per charge and you better hope you have a backyard range. I recommend loading only 3 rounds of the start charges and maybe only testing one or two rounds until you work up to 22 grains of H335 and 55 V-Max bullets just to make sure there are no pressure signs. Possibly when you get to 22 grains and above, load ten test loads but only shoot 3 rounds to see how they group. All the way to maximum shooting 3 rounds. If you get a good group with the 3 rounds shot then you can go back to the extra 7 rounds and test to see if they still group like the 3 round test. Like mentioned Hornady's maximum data is mild and many shoot up to 25 grains with H335 and 55 grain bullets. I'm just warning you that it takes hours to do a test at a public range and you'll end up hurrying or not getting all loads tested. It'd take all day to really test 70 to 130 rounds if you had a private shooting range down on the farm. I still bet it takes more than one range trip to find what you're looking for but I have got lucky with one range trip with one of my rifles. I always have unfired test rounds so I highly recommend a good collet bullet puller from Hornady or RCBS. If your rifle likes factory Hornady 55 V-Max, I'd start off seating your 55 V-Max to the same length. Have fun.

 

[SARuger]

I live 5 min from my range and I do as the others do, start at the min and work up .5 until .5 from max. I load 5 rounds at each level.

Let the barrel cool between rounds and while doing so, check your casings for signs of over-pressure. Stop when you see them.

I will do load test for 2 or 3 rifles in one range trip just to maximize my time on the bench. I get the targets ready at home etc. Anything to make my time more efficient.

Just think, the combinations are endless! Lots of trips to the range!

 

[Blue68f100]

With the 223 I would not jump in 0.5gr increments. You would likely jump over the sweep spot. I jump 0.3 gr at the low end then around mid way switch over to 0.2 gr increments. Then when I with end 0.3 gr of max I step in 0.1gr increments. If your using mixed brass I would separate out the LC ( and all Mil) brass for it will likely have a smaller volume and you will reach max pressure much sooner than the others. I tried the H335 and did not have any success with it. Looking at the crony number the data improved but I hit max pressure long before published max. After every round you need to examine your brass looking for over pressure signs. If any presents it self you need to determine if it's one particular head stamp or all. The is why I prefer to do load work up with matching brass. Different mfg will most likely have a different case volume.

Then if your allowing your gun to cool 2 min between shots it adds a lot of time to the trip. 15 min to fire 5 rounds not counting setup time. After some point your concentration will go and the shots after that may not give you any valid data.

 

[spitballer]

I've learned to enjoy the trek to the gun range where I do most of my shooting, even though it's 62 miles away. There are closer ranges, but they're not as challenging. For determining what my rifle likes I found the chronograph indispensable. I have a 12" twist so centrifugal force is less than 9" and bullets have the potential for more velocity, BUT I'm also limited to lighter bullets.

The key for me was interpreting numbers on the chronograph, and using the first shot of the day to make adjustments. For example, I have five shots as follows:

2974
3008
3015
3042
3027

My interpretation is that the bullet tightens up where velocity peaks at 3042 and this is where my charge needs to be set at for the first shot of next group (yes, after the barrel has cooled). This is very simplified but you get the idea.

I'm compelled to add that if you are running a [Savage] .223 with a long barrel (30") you may have a frustrating situation because the case doesn't hold enough of any single propellant to give an effective pressure curve IMHO. You need that bullet to be tight at the muzzle, and this means moving your peak pressure as far forward as possible. The only way I've been able to accomplish this effectively is with a half-and-half load of ball powder with the faster powder up front to tighten up the bullet before it exits the barrel. Maybe you can find a better way. Any long barrel using slow powder can produce startling velocity, BUT the only way to keep it accurate is to keep that bullet tight at the muzzle.

 

[NVSB4]

Good place to get free target downloads is MyTargets

 

[Lr_athlete32]

To the OP,

I also am very new to reloading and wasted much time using data in my Hornady 9th edition trying to find a 55 grain vmax load as you are.

I was using the data and got nowhere near the published velocities (about 500fps slower at one point) and even when using the hornady "maximum" load of varget, could only produce 2500fps.

With a 55 grain bullet, you can use a compressed load of varget (27.5gn) and not even begin to see pressure signs. So why was hornady listing the red highlighted "max" as only 26.4gn? Because their info is what we call lawyered.

This basically means that the recomended loads are so low, they are protected from legal actions and what not. You should use the powder reccomendations from the powder companies.

In my example, I was using varget, and realize you're using benchmark. But, I did look up the 55 grain load you seek on hodgdons website and found that what you think is your max, could be pretty low.

Do yourself a favor and go to http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

This is all I use anymore and wish I wouldn't have wasted so much time with underpowered loads and wondering why they were so slow.

The nosler website was the same way when trying to load some 50 grainers.

Hope this helps you as much as it would have helped me, best of luck.

As always, be safe.