New manufacture of magazines in low supply

[peacebutready]

I noticed there's a great shortage for some magazines like for the CZ 70, M70A, Star B, and probably others not coming to mind right now. Why don't the magazine manufacturers, companies capable of building magazines, or even engineers/machinists working on their own make them for sale? They would sell.

 

[JohnBiltz]

They would sell a few. Probably not enough to cover production and stocking costs.

 

[Odd Job]

What we need is more conversions. Easier to make minor modifications to magazine A (if it is easy to get) so that it works the same as magazine B (the one that is hard to get).
I need to get hold of R55 Benchmark magazines but they are very hard to find. Well, one guy had some second hand mags on Ebay for $100 but that's a lot more than I want to pay!

I should have bought more of those mags back in the day before S&W canned the R55 series of rifles.

 

[wally]

There is a company that specializes in making mags for out of production guns. I believe its called Triple-K. Unfortunately the quality is not the best in my somewhat limited experience (Star BK).

They list one for the .32ACP CZ 70:
https://www.triplek.com/product/cz-model-70-32acp/

 

[Monac]

Because a good, functional, durable magazine is hard to make, and requires expensive tooling to get the cost per unit down and accuracy of manufacture up. Magazines that do not fit properly are a very common cause of jamming. But badly worn or mistreated old guns for which magazines are out of production often jam even with good magazines. Demand is never as high as the guy who needs a magazine for HIS gun thinks it is, so it is a case of slow sales and many complaints.

I know somebody who can hand make magazines. If he is going to earn a reasonable hourly rate for his work, for a person of his skill, the price is going to be in the high hundreds for the first one, maybe more. If you've got a Savage 45 automatic, or a Colt 1905 45 auto, it might be worth it. Otherwise, forget it.

I don't want to be entirely negative though. Technology ought to offer some kind of answer, perhaps involving the use of plastics, which has done so much to get the cost of pistol frames down. But most magazines are tightly dimensioned to work with spring steel, and I don't know if there are plastics with that level of strength yet.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Basically comes down to---buy a more popular gun

I regularly get Glock, S&W, Ruger and 1911 mags on SALE---no shortage there.

 

[AZAndy]

Technology ought to offer some kind of answer, perhaps involving the use of plastics, which has done so much to get the cost of pistol frames down. But most magazines are tightly dimensioned to work with spring steel, and I don't know if there are plastics with that level of strength yet.

ETS makes some transparent plastic Glock magazines.

 

[Havok7416]

There is a company that specializes in making mags for out of production guns. I believe its called Triple-K. Unfortunately the quality is not the best in my somewhat limited experience (Star BK).

They list one for the .32ACP CZ 70:
https://www.triplek.com/product/cz-model-70-32acp/

I went looking for those guys to post the link here and had a complete memory fail! That k you for finding that!

 

[Speedo66]

Be nice to find an additional mag for a first gen Browning BLR that doesn't require a gazillion dollars plus your first born.

 

[peacebutready]

There is a company that specializes in making mags for out of production guns. I believe its called Triple-K. Unfortunately the quality is not the best in my somewhat limited experience (Star BK).

Yes. It is $38 for the CZ 70. I heard the same thing about quality.

 

[jmace57]

Regarding Triple-K - At one time, I had 12 1903 Colts. In a trade, I ended up with a couple of Triple-K mags. The 1903s are notoriously finicky about using anything but originals which are expensive. The strange thing was I tried them in all 12 guns. They worked in 6 of them, feeding flawlessly and in 6 they did not work at all with FTF and stovepipes.

 

[CapnMac]

Basically comes down to---buy a more popular gun

Or go to a lot of gun shows and get familiar with the vendors who have the 10-20 tables of magazines.

The obscure/low demand mags are just deadweight that take up case space to them, so, often they will do a decent deal on them.

Sometimes.

 

[Tallball]

You can get lucky. I bought a Sig... is the P230? The little 380 service pistol? They are out of production, as are the mags, and mags are expensive. They seemed to be going for $50 minimum. The first time I took it to the shooting range I glanced at some random magazines they had sitting around in the glass display case. The clerk didn't even know which pistols any of them fit. Wouldn't you know, one fit my "new" Sig. It cost me $9.95 plus tax.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I've looked at Triple-K mags a number of times over the years, but have heard far more complaints than praise from satisfied customers. Gunshows may be your best option -- although at the last 5-6 shows I went to, there weren't any booths set up with a big supply of oddball magazines.

 

[browningguy]

I think just about everyone that wants a magazine for a Star B, or CZ70, or M70A probably already has one, maybe more. But come to think of it I haven't seen any mags for my Dryse 1908 lately.

 

[mjsdwash]

maybe im alone, but the one tripple K magazine I got worked just fine, and still does. They didn't have an exact match for me, but sold me a similar, but shorter model. I had to cut off the ledge at the bottom, and put a block on it, but it feeds fine. They make low cost leather holsters that work nicely too.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

They didn't have an exact match for me, but sold me a similar, but shorter model. I had to cut off the ledge at the bottom, and put a block on it, but it feeds fine.

I think the term best applied here is "damning with faint praise." You made it work, but you were lucky and resourceful.

 

[hdwhit]

peacebutready wrote:
Why don't the magazine manufacturers, companies capable of building magazines, or even engineers/machinists working on their own make them for sale?

Because it might infringe on the copyright, trademark or design patent of the original magazine. Even where those protections are not truly applicable, the maker of the replacement mangazines would still run the risk of being sued anyway by the holder of the original design and would then have to fund the cost of the legal bills to defend themselves. The profit from 500 or even 5,000 magazines wouldn't begin to cover those costs.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Because it might infringe on the copyright, trademark or design patent of the original magazine. Even where those protections are not truly applicable, the maker of the replacement mangazines would still run the risk of being sued anyway by the holder of the original design and would then have to fund the cost of the legal bills to defend themselves. The profit from 500 or even 5,000 magazines wouldn't begin to cover those costs.

I underlined the last sentence, above, for reasons explained below.

There was little or no patent protection for Communist Bloc weapons -- some of the weapons being discussed -- made prior to the fall of the Soviet Union. Some patents last only 17 or 20 years, and even those may be tied to an older patent that expires earlier.) That could be an issue with some of the German-made guns from that period, but it didn't seem to stop FEG when they made (and still make) variants of FN weapons (such as BHP "clones" with similar internal components, some actually interchangeable with FN-made High Powers.).

A variation of the second point you mentioned above -- the cost of setting up production for relatively rare weapons which bring with them an intense but very limited demand for magazines is probably a much bigger impediment, even when there's no legal challenge! (China [or Vietnam] could probably fill this vacuum and make a little money, but importing guns and parts to the U.S., one of the bigger markets, isn't a slam-dunk.)

 

[Tirod]

S&W 3Gens are in that situation, a .45ACP mag is becoming harder to find, and the shorter compact mags definitely so. Yet originally there were about 3-5 each available as issue to every cop and the public bought just as many if not more.

Peruse the gun auctions and you see them supplied with one or two - the more resourceful gun stores sideline the rest and put them up for sale separately at the going rate. So a gun sold to them with five mags becomes a gun resold with one and four of them are listed for $45 apiece.

Secondly, reading forums you get the idea there are folks buying up every old mag they can. It's like the .22 craze, their are more mag buyers than the market can sustain. Posts with pics show 35-50 magazines in the hands of an owner of two or three compatible pistols. Why? "Because they aren't making them any more." And these are the same guys culling their collection of mags selling off the duds for the high prices. What was service carry of three to five mags rotated when on official duty becomes 10 -15 mags for a day at the range shooting their old collectible. Because they don't want to reload just a few constantly or put that much wear and tear on them.

There is also a distinct difference in application one army to another with mags - the Russians issued three AK mags per soldier and in peacetime that's all they got. They made do with them. In America the supply sergeant hands out dozens but you turn them in at the end of a range session. In combat dozens more. We are more used to having lots of mags for high capacity guns and we are willing to find and get them. In other countries it's not considered necessary or even possible. Goes to a shooter's mindset and what they are used to.

Am I saying there are hoarders of mags, not quite. But someone with 10-15 for one gun at the range does look like he's blessed with abundance when I'm down at my station trying to figure out how to cut a mag catch in a 1911 mag for a S&W 4566 and get some more shooting time compared to loading time. The only issue right now is good 1911 mags are just as expensive as S&W. In a few more years when originals pass $65 I will rethink it. Beats trying to tweak ProMags into a semblance of reliability.

 

[Havok7416]

S&W 3Gens are in that situation, a .45ACP mag is becoming harder to find, and the shorter compact mags definitely so. Yet originally there were about 3-5 each available as issue to every cop and the public bought just as many if not more.

Peruse the gun auctions and you see them supplied with one or two - the more resourceful gun stores sideline the rest and put them up for sale separately at the going rate. So a gun sold to them with five mags becomes a gun resold with one and four of them are listed for $45 apiece.

Secondly, reading forums you get the idea there are folks buying up every old mag they can. It's like the .22 craze, their are more mag buyers than the market can sustain. Posts with pics show 35-50 magazines in the hands of an owner of two or three compatible pistols. Why? "Because they aren't making them any more." And these are the same guys culling their collection of mags selling off the duds for the high prices. What was service carry of three to five mags rotated when on official duty becomes 10 -15 mags for a day at the range shooting their old collectible. Because they don't want to reload just a few constantly or put that much wear and tear on them.

There is also a distinct difference in application one army to another with mags - the Russians issued three AK mags per soldier and in peacetime that's all they got. They made do with them. In America the supply sergeant hands out dozens but you turn them in at the end of a range session. In combat dozens more. We are more used to having lots of mags for high capacity guns and we are willing to find and get them. In other countries it's not considered necessary or even possible. Goes to a shooter's mindset and what they are used to.

Am I saying there are hoarders of mags, not quite. But someone with 10-15 for one gun at the range does look like he's blessed with abundance when I'm down at my station trying to figure out how to cut a mag catch in a 1911 mag for a S&W 4566 and get some more shooting time compared to loading time. The only issue right now is good 1911 mags are just as expensive as S&W. In a few more years when originals pass $65 I will rethink it. Beats trying to tweak ProMags into a semblance of reliability.

At least you can buy new 3rd Gen springs from Wolff. So unless you smash the mag body you should be ok for many years to come.

 

[Monac]

Because it might infringe on the copyright, trademark or design patent of the original magazine. Even where those protections are not truly applicable, the maker of the replacement mangazines would still run the risk of being sued anyway by the holder of the original design and would then have to fund the cost of the legal bills to defend themselves. The profit from 500 or even 5,000 magazines wouldn't begin to cover those costs.

I would be very interested to know if the design of a magazine to fit a particular pistol was actually patentable or copyrightable. I have never seen a magazine marked with a patent number, except some early Colts that referred to a basic box-magazine patent of the 1880's. Nor have I ever seen a magazine with a copyright mark. Also, for many popular pistols designs, the life-span of any patent would be long over by now. Even the Glock pistol is what, 30+ years old now?

And I do not see at all how a magazine could be a trademark. That just does not make sense. Of course you cannot use the manufacturer's trademark ON it, but that is a completely different thing.

I could easily be wrong, of course, but I would like to actually know by specific reference than by idle speculation.

 

[peacebutready]

I would be very interested to know if the design of a magazine to fit a particular pistol was actually patentable or copyrightable. I have never seen a magazine marked with a patent number, except some early Colts that referred to a basic box-magazine patent of the 1880's. Nor have I ever seen a magazine with a copyright mark.

I have a vague memory of the "devel" follower on the Chip McCormick magazines. There may have been a lawsuit over it.

 

[peacebutready]

A variation of the second point you mentioned above -- the cost of setting up production for relatively rare weapons which bring with them an intense but very limited demand for magazines is probably a much bigger impediment, even when there's no legal challenge! (China [or Vietnam] could probably fill this vacuum and make a little money, but importing guns and parts to the U.S., one of the bigger markets, isn't a slam-dunk.)

I noticed there are Tokarev magazines made in Taiwan. Maybe that company should make them for the firearms we are discussing.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

That Taiwanese firm still has the same problems as any other maker -- there simply may not be enough demand to justify start up... Tokarevs are still being made in parts of the former Soviet Bloc, and countless thousands still available and in use, leftover from both before and after WWII.. Unlike some milsurp guns, there are probably hundreds of thousands Tokarevs still in owners hands.