New member 9mm reloading questions oal berry’s

[Duck45lc]

Hi all been lurking around for a while and decided to join recently. Been reloading for a several years but relatively new to auto loaders. Just started loading for 9mm been loading 45acp for a couple years. I have always stuck with published load data strictly but having difficulty finding data for berry’s 124 rn and berry’s 124 hhp. Have data in western #1 for berry’s 124rn but oal is too long for my colt competition 1911.
1.160 will plunk but not spin. Some will some won’t. 1.155 will plunk and spin so figured 1.140-1.145 would be a good working oal for this gun. Loaded some up at starting load of 5.4 gr AA5 up to 5.8 gr with poor results lots of unburnt powder. Max load listed is 6.4 not sure weather to keep loading up to that to get it to clean up or just try a different powder. Concerned about pressure with shorter oal. Western #1 lists identical data for rainier 124 rn so I was wondering it they are interchangeable across the board. I have data from Vihtavuori #11 for rainier 124rn and plenty of n340 or 3n37 to try if that would be a better route. Their data is based of of 1.142 oal that would fit my gun perfectly.
Have all but given up on the berry’s 124 hybrid hollow points as I will have to load them to 1.060 and the only data I can find is 1.126 on the Vihtavuori app.
Sorry for the long rambling post.

 

[Blue68f100]

Use the OAL that works in your gun, Start low and work up. Keep on going up with charge, the burn should clean up. Watch for over pressure signs as you go.

My experience with plated is that you loose accuracy around mid jacketed load.

Before load data was available most used lead to 1/2 way up jacketed with std plating. The TP could take full jacketed data.


Welcome to THR

 

[redcon1]

In front of me, I have a box of 9mm loaded with Berry's 147 gr HHP on top of 4.7 gr of Longshot. They shot well. better than factory I think but it's not like I put the gun on a rest or anything. They were certainly adequate however. They all plunked just fine btw and, as I recall, I barely had to flare the case mouth to seat them and I don't think I even had to crimp them.

 

[Duck45lc]

Thanks for the reply
Going to have to work up some more with aa5. Was hoping to try a different powder as I have had trouble getting aa5 to burn clean with light bullets in 45acp. Was hoping to use Vihtavuori data if the rainier 124 data is interchangeable with berry’s.
Not sure if 147 grain berry’s are a more tapered ogive maybe. Damn short leade in my colt 1911. Not as bad with 124 rn having to drop oal 0.015 but the hybrid hollow points dropping 0.070 makes me a little concerned on a starting point. I might end up getting my barrel leade reamed so I can stick to book oal. Not sure if this would have negative effects on accuracy with factory or reloaded 115s or not. I really want to order some mpr 124s to see how deep I have to seat them before I have barrel reamed as well. That looks like the bullet I will use to try to wear this thing out on. Price and quality seem to be of high regard here.

 

[Hugger-4641]

It really depends on your gun. All of my 9mm guns will take the 124hp and 124rn at recommend col, except one: My Taurus G3c has a tight throat and has to be loaded short, usually around 1.06. Because of this, I just load all my ammo to work in this gun and test very carefully if near max powder charge.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks for the reply
Going to have to work up some more with aa5. Was hoping to try a different powder as I have had trouble getting aa5 to burn clean with light bullets in 45acp. Was hoping to use Vihtavuori data if the rainier 124 data is interchangeable with berry’s.
Not sure if 147 grain berry’s are a more tapered ogive maybe. Damn short leade in my colt 1911. Not as bad with 124 rn having to drop oal 0.015 but the hybrid hollow points dropping 0.070 makes me a little concerned on a starting point. I might end up getting my barrel leade reamed so I can stick to book oal. Not sure if this would have negative effects on accuracy with factory or reloaded 115s or not. I really want to order some mpr 124s to see how deep I have to seat them before I have barrel reamed as well. That looks like the bullet I will use to try to wear this thing out on. Price and quality seem to be of high regard here.

The OAL listed in the load data is reporting what OAL they used in the development of the data. It is not meant to be law and you are not required to use it. Like said above, the best OAL is the one that works best in your gun. (without cartridge limits of course) In no case should you have to modify your gun to use a bullet you're reloading with. I usually use the longest OAL I can and still pass the plunk test. Of course I don't make it so long that the bullet doesn't have proper depth in the neck. Don't think you have to use their OAL but consider it when approaching the max charge. You will figure it out with the help of your barrel.

 

[lordpaxman]

@Duck45lc, welcome to THR!
Of the powders you mention, I’ve seen similar results with AA5, some unburnt powder. I’ve not tried Western, yet, but have used quite a bit of VV. VV is a single base powder, very forgiving, very nice metering and burning and a great felt recoil. I’d recommend trying it, you mentioned N340 which is one of the slower ones. N320 is also a great choice for your bullets and used a lot in competition.
Check the VV app again, and you’ll find 125 gr hollow points at a much shorter COL, for N340 and that should make you a bit more comfortable in using that powder with your necessary COL. I’ve found the same thing where my 1911 barrels have short leades and have wanted to ream them, but can’t bring myself to do that yet. Another advantage with the VV powders is they are well behaved when you have to work outside the lines. You’ll need to work that out for yourself, but check the app and the loads and you’ll have something you can work with . Let us know how it goes. Good luck.

 

[Atavar]

I have had the same concerns as the OP. I wish that seating depth in the case was one of the given datum’s along with OAL.
When trying to develop loads for non mainstream bullets the bullet length for a given weight can vary.
Variances in loaded case volume can vary significantly with a .06 change in OAL.
I do wonder about pressure changes due to this volume change.

 

[Duck45lc]

Thanks fellas just being overly cautious I suppose. (8 kids 9 chickens 4 cats 1 dog 10 finders and 2 eyes failing but still functional ). Have had to adjust oal in the past to hit the crimping groove but those were on cartridges with much lower operating pressures. Will try some Vv data for n340 that I have on hand for the 124 rn. Not sure if the rainier 124 is a close match to berry’s I will just stay a few tenths from max when working up. Just trying to match up bullet oal bearing surface to be in the same zip code as the data I start with. just got a box of Sierra 125 jhp and they are listed in the vv app at oal 1.035. They measure.550 long with a little longer bearing surface as well as a rounder more blunt ogive. The 124 hybrid hollow points are .535 long so I will get around to trying them with that data as the seated bullet in case will be shorter.
I have several different cheaper powders for plinking to try as well including unique 231 cfe pistol and universal if somebody has a pet loading with those willing to share.
Now it’s just finding the time this week to do some loading. Also cold as heck here in the Midwest.

 

[bullseye308]

(8 kids 9 chickens 4 cats 1 dog 10 finders and 2 eyes failing but still functional )

Really, that seems a bit excessive, nobody needs 4 cats.

Over the years I have tried many bullets in my 9’s. Some from Zero were the best I found and used the for about 8 years in many guns. Their 115 and 124 fmj were consistent and cheap in bulk back then. One of my guns just had to have the 124 at 1.05, the rest could go to 1.135. It is a thing and it happens, but since I load for each gun for accuracy, I may have 3-6 loads stocking at any given point in time and labeled for which gun it goes with. Occasionally I’ll have 2 or 3 that share a load, but not often.

I prefer to load as long as I can for function, but once I determine how long I can go, the real test is to find the sweet spot which is usually a bit shorter and most often at 60-75% of max charge weight. This is my experience and referencing 9mm only. This is repeated for every type of bullet, weight, profile, jacketed, plated, or cast. It all gets logged in the book for that gun.

The only real concern loading shorter than book length is if you are loading at the upper end of the spectrum. The shorter you go, the higher pressure goes, and it’s not linear. This is important to understand. If you are loading midrange pal is not as important as far as pressure is concerned. This is why you always should rework up a load if you change anything about the bullet or the oal. If the pressure curve was linear life would be better, but it is not.

 

[Duck45lc]

Got home from work and loaded up some berry’s 124 rn using load data in Vihtavuori #1 for rainier 124 rn. Starting load n340 4.7 grains at oal 1.142. Shot 5 and they felt good mild recoil ejection was maybe a little weak but more energetic than white box 115s. Accuracy was acceptable. No unburnt powder but cases were a little dirty on the outside not unique sooty but gray film not too bad. Good seat on primers no bulging of case. They would almost go back in the case guage. Loaded 5 more at 4.7, 4.8,and 4.9 to try out but ran out of daylight and it’s Valentine’s Day so better knock it off for tonight. Max load is 5.1. Thanks for the input guys.

 

[lordpaxman]

Thanks for the range report, always good to hear how things went, even better that you were successful! I’ve found VV data to be on the conservative side, which isn’t a bad thing, but you’ll probably find your higher charge weights to be satisfactory.

 

[Rule3]

Back to the 'plunk test" I was not aware that "spinning" was part of it even though I have read it before? I just drop them in and then if they drop out . it's good.

 

[Duck45lc]

Sorry for the delay on further testing weather kids and work. Got home last evening and fired the ladder I had loaded on v-day.
Berry’s 124 rn n340 oal 1.142 win cases Tula spp.
4.7 grains performed same as the other day
4.8 grains seamed to have slightly better accuracy no pressure signs slightly better case seal but still a little dirty on one side of case.
4.9 grains accuracy same as 4.8 but outside of cases are cleaner bot still a little film that is easily wiped off no unburnt flakes.
Going to load more at 4.9 for more testing. Haven’t had very good conditions for accuracy testing as these were shot in light rain cold and windy conditions offhand but all loadings were able to stay within 5 inches off hand. 7 yards.
First time using Vihtavuori powders and have heard praises for how clean it is. Also was surprised at how bulky it is really fills the case. The 4.9 loading is relatively clean but still nothing to write home about in my opinion. Lordpaxman you may be right on the conservative data from Vihtavuori will have to load some at book max of 5.1 and see how they perform. Normally I like to stay a couple tenths from max for safety. Would like to get a chronograph before going higher than 4.9. Maybe Father’s Day
Rule3 on the plunk test when I was trying to load at 1.160 per western data they would plunk in but were sticking and not easily coming out at 1.155 they were coming out freely but I could feel them dragging the lands when I would spin them. Also if I rammed them in aggressively they would stick slightly. So went down to 1.145 and they plunked in and out great and spun freely as well. No expert at this but I see what you’re saying.

 

[Duck45lc]

Loaded several more berry’s 124 rn at 4.9 grains n340. Overall satisfied with performance for just plinking. Will probably latter up more when I get a chronograph.
Still haven’t tried the 124 hybrid hollow points but scouring this forum and reloading manuals to get a good starting point for my reduced oal of max 1.06. Working oal will be more like 1.050..
Have Sierra VV and hornady data that list data for longer jacketed bullets at the same or shorter cartridge oal. Would it be prudent to try starting loads and work up utilizing this data for berry’s 124 hhp.
Also just received 1000 124 mpr bullets and will have to seat them to 1.040 - 1.035 to work in my colt. May start a new thread for those as I listed berry’s in the title of this one.

 

[Duck45lc]

Finally got around to loading some berry’s 124 hhp. Ended up using Sierra 6th data and started at the lowest listing for n340 at 1.050 oal.
3.5 gr didn’t lock slide back or eject cases
Same result up to 3.8 grains.
3.9 gr 2 out of 3 locked the slide back and all cases ejected clear of the slide at least.
4 gr all 3 locked slide back and ejected but just a foot away from my feet.
4.1 grains felt pretty good with ejected cases going 3-4 feet. Cases were relatively clean starting at the 4 grain mark. Accuracy wise offhand at 7 yards was acceptable. No pressure signs and they still feel like powder puffs although everything feels soft in an all steel 5” 1911. Not sure weather to keep going up or not. Probably wait to get a chronograph to see velocity before I go any higher. Just loaded 3 at each level and shot one in mag at a time while testing this evening. I loaded up 20 at 4.1 to test tomorrow for feeding.
Max standard pressure loading with this data for Sierra 125 jhp is 4.2.

 

[n2omike]

If you like hollow points, RMR has jacketed 9mm hollow points in stock at less than $0.11 each... actual jacketed, and can be pushed a lot faster than a plated bullet.

115 grain 9mm JHP
https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...ollow-point-mini-multi-purpose-round-bullets/

124 grain 9mm JHP
https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...hollow-point-multi-purpose-round-bullets-new/

I do have some Berrys 230 grain hybrid hollow points in .45... Those look really cool, and I believe they will work amazingly well at blowing up water filled milk jugs out of a 1911!

 

[Duck45lc]

I just got 1000 124 rmr mpr bullets to try. Haven’t started on them yet but excited to. Going to have to load short at 1.04 to work in my barrel though. Just trying to find a good load for these berry’s first.

 

[Duck45lc]

Stopped at the range over lunch and the 4.1 gr loads shot and fed well other than pretty weak ejection but no jams. Think I’m going to go ahead and load some at 4.2 to test tomorrow. Vihtavuori app has load for the same Sierra bullet data I have been using out of the Sierra 6th but maxes out at 4.4 instead of 4.2.

 

[Duck45lc]

Didn’t wait for home this afternoon and loaded some at 4.2 grains n340 and I think I’ve found a winner. Very accurate and good ejection no pressure signs and the cases are very clean. Be interesting to see how they are for velocity.

 

[RBRK]

My findings are 124 FMJ RN 4.7 N340 1.126 OAL 1070 fps using a lab radar. 4inch barrel. You are on the light end at 4.2. Probably around 1000 fps is my guess.

 

[kmw1954]

First I have seen of this thread or I would have responded sooner.

I have 8 different 9mm, 4 different 380 and 2 different 45acp. The 380 and 45acp I shoot many different projectiles including hand cast lead in the 9mm all I ever load and shoot are plated bullets, either Berry's or Xtreme in all forms from 115gr RN to 124gr Flat point.

I have loaded and used AA#2, AA#5, Ramshot Silhouette, HP-38, Bullseye-86 and Universal Clays. The AA#2 and the Silhouette are my favorite.

https://ramshot.com/load-data/ Open the PDF this site has the most comprehensive listing of Berry's Bullets I have been able to find.

 

[Duck45lc]

Thanks for the link and responses. RBRK do you think I’m light even at my reduced OAL of 1.050 for the hhp 124?

 

[RBRK]

I missed that, you are maybe 1020 at that length. I load some RMR 124 on N350 @1.100 5.2 grains and I am at 1050 fps. As long as they feel good and eject ok and not dribble out of the gun you should be fine. You can bump them .1 or .2 and see. I used to load for lightest and still function, now I load more for about 1050 for 124 grain and 1100-1125 for 115 grain. 950-970 for 147 grain.

 

[Duck45lc]

Thanks for the input rbrk. They are shooting pretty good at 4.2 but I’ll try going up a couple tenths see how they feel. Would like to get them 1050-1100 per berry’s recommendation but no chronograph yet.