New member, old gun

[Drill Sergeant Leader]

Folks,

I've a guy wanting to sell a Winchester '97 riot gun that he claims was made in 1900. From the description over the phone, it sounds like an old police gun with some undetermined LE markings on it. I have't seen it yet. He said he wants 550-600 for it.

I appeal to the experts herein: What do I need to look for on this thing to verify whether or not it's worth it? I plan to use it and not nail it to a wall. Are any of you aware of any chronic problems inherent with that particular shotgun that I should look for?

I'm pretty sure it isn't a damascus barrel.

The seller said he inherited it recently and is selling a bunch of other old guns I don't care about. He sounds somewhat novice. Like me, only a little more.

I don't want to rip the guy off if it's a keeper, but I don't want a lemon, either.

All replies welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[Legionnaire]

DSL, I'm not an expert on the Winchester '97 by any means. Do a quick search at gunbroker.com and/or auctionarms.com and you'll get some idea of what '97s are selling for. At first glance, it would appear that the price your friend is asking is not unreasonable for a very good to excellent condition specimen.

That said, unless you want to become a collector--and thus are willing to pay more for a shotgun you plan to shoot--you can find very serviceable late model Mossberg 500s or Remington 870s for far less. Personally, I'd buy either of the latter and spend the difference on ammo!

Hopefully others will be able to weigh in on what specifically to look for on the Winchester, though. Oh, and welcome aboard!

 

[Drill Sergeant Leader]

I did some lurking about on many of the auction sites recently and I agree that if the specimen is good, 550 might not be too much to spend. My concern is not knowing about some intrinsic flaw with the '97 that only gunsmiths and WW1 vets are privvy to.

My dream gun is a model 12 trench, as I used one almost exclusively for years as a military quasi-SWAT cop. I even won a local inter-agency, two-gun competition with "my" beloved 12 in Atlanta some years back. Can't find one that I'm willing to spend the routine asking price (1K-plus) for though. I could spare a couple of my dogs, but the wife would kill me.

I had an opportunity to see what looked to be a really nice specimen of a '97 trench at a local gun show recently with my two year old daughter. The finish was superb and it had the old ordnance markings on it. Asking price was 1550 firm with a grumpy "don't touch" sign on it. The seller looked like he could take me, so I left the gun and his table alone.

Anyway, I have a Maverick '88 with an ATI pistol stock and TAC-STAR sidesaddle (brass down) for duty use. I've managed to run probably 2000 rounds through it with nary a hiccup, save for a short stroke that was entirely my fault. Issue shotgun is a standard 870 police with a 50 pound, twelve-box bandoleer/sling that sits in the trunk and gets pulled out for inspections. The Maverick rides up front with me.

I shoot the Maverick as often as I can (200 or so rounds every 2 months when time allows) at our steel range. I'd like to shoot more (who doesn't?) but domestic obligations preclude a lot of that.

I didn't even know about the '97 until recently when I stumbled across the Norinco trench copy. Further research proves the real '97 is a tough old bird and, dare I say, sexy in a no-nonsense sort of way. Love that hammer. Looks like strictly business. Still, I'd like to be aware of "infamous" things to look for before I snatch it up. Like I said, it'll be a shooter, not an ornament.

I appreciate the feedback and the friendly welcome. I look forward to further dialogue and advice.

 

[Dave McCracken]

There's an old thread I did on the 97. Fine, classic shotgun...

 

[Capstick1]

Shotgun Question

I've always heard that it's not a good idea to fire modern shotgun ammunition in the older damascus barreled shotguns. If that shot gun does have damascus barrels but you still want to shoot it you can ship it off to Briley Manufacturing in Houston, TX and have them put a solid steel liner on the inside of the barrel. Be forewarned this might not be cheap. Personally if it were me I'd look around the pawn shops for a Remington 870. Those things never wear out.

 

[huntershooter]

I have never seen a '97 with a damascus barrel. I believe they were all "fluid steel".

 

[Drill Sergeant Leader]

I got my first look at the above '97 this afternoon. Wow! Gorgeous! Much better condition than I expected. The receiver and barrel finish is flawless. Really. I can't tell if it's been re-finished or not, but the bluing is suuuuper smooth and even. The action was like bacon cooked in butter - sinfully slick.


Only nits to pick are a slightly cracked forearm (not all the way through), some marks on the stock, and the magazine tube is just a little bit discolored. Otherwise, I honestly thought the guy was pulling out a new, old stock gun from his tattered case.

Any feedback out there as to the manufacture date? The serial number was 86XXX (XXX as in I can't remember the last three digits 'cause I forgot to write it down). Seller says 1900, but I think more recent than that, like somewhere in the 20's.

I've heard rumblings of liability issues with a hammer shotgun as a patrol weapon. Thoughts?

RE: damascus barrels - I don't know diddly about the '97. I just read somewhere that some of them had damascus barrels. I don't think I've ever seen one (damascus barrel) to know what it was.

As always, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it trmendously.

 

[brucets11]

For an original trench gun that's a low price. OK price for a '97 though. I've got two of them, one a 1908 model and the other's a 1905 model. I shoot them in cowboy matches and put a couple of hundred rounds a month through them. I use Winchester AA featherlites and they're terrific shooters and I see lots of them at cowboy matches. They hold up great and if you want to know the mfg date, go to

http://armscollectors.com/sn/windates.htm

If you buy one and want to know everything there is to know about taking one down, buy the following DVD by Lenny Magill;

http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/10...search-alias=aps&field-keywords=winchester+97

 

[mnrivrat]

You mentioned LE markings - where there any on the gun?

I am far from a good source so will keep it brief : A big difference in value would ride on wether this is an original short barreled factory gun , or a cut off/down gun.
Before spending that kind of money I would do a bit of reasearch to confirm it is a riot model. Some internet searches on fighting shotguns, nikitary shotguns, etc. might help. If origninal military there may some special markings like the flaming bomb proof marks.

If law enforcement I am not sure wether they would have special factory markings or not ?

At any rate - short barrel alone doesn't make it a factory riot or trench gun.

 

[lmccrock]

I bought a '97 thinking I would use it to shoot in cowboy matches, but I never started the cowboy thing. Anyway, mine is about s/n 240xxx which, according to one book, was 1904. So 86xxx made in 1900 might be correct.

What was the hottest load in 1900? Do you want to essentially proof-test a 100-year old shotgun with max buck or slug duty loads? Might be ok, I am far from expert. Something to think about.

Lee

 

[dust_101]

Also keep in mind for a patrol gun/safety issues, that the 97 and the Ithaca 37 allow for pseudo semi-auto fire by keeping the trigger pulled and sliding the action tube. Not sure if that is good or not for your needs but just haven't seen it mentioned yet. Otehrwise a great gun, the newer Norinco/Chinese versions pale in comparison.

 

[Drill Sergeant Leader]

After much deliberation with my Finance Minister, and frequent discussion with the seller, I came to the determination that I will not purchase said firearm.

While I was able to settle on a compromise "affordablity" price with the aforementioned FM, I was also able to get from the seller that the gun was not actually a '97 riot, but a chopped down '97 that had made many, many trips to the gunsmith for miscellaneous cutting, refinishing, and "antiquing" so as to look "...just right..." Seller would not come down on price of six-hundred bones and I couldn't justifiably cut into my beer budget for what amounts to be an elaborate "quasi-fake."

I sincerely appreciate all comments, and suggestions from everyone who posted. I hope I can be of equal service to you all someday...not that I'm much of an expert in anything.

Anybody know a good source for a functional (ain't gotta be pretty, just working) model 12 or 25 for a low price? I've decided to build a franken-gun out of one (aka...fits in a Chevy Impala vertical rack). I want to take advantage of the FM's benevolence before I make her mad again.