New Member, with Question..

[FLaviator]

First off i wanted to say "Hello" to everyone here, i've been lurking for a while, gathering information and generally enjoying the material, seems like you guys are a good bunch , i look forward to learning much from you guys, and hopefully contributing in the future as well!



Now! for my (possibly) stupid question, mostly as a result of my stupid (perhaps) actions.


I have a Pietta 1851 Navy Revolver in .44 caliber, it is my first Black Powder Gun, and is very fun to shoot (i've been shooting all my life with "normal" guns), but temptation finally gave in, and i picked one up from Cabelas on sale.


I've been to the range with it once, and it shoots great, BUT, upon cleaning and inspection afterwards, i noticed that the Lockup Bolt was Peening the Cylinder lockup notches (terminology correct?) Anyway, so in my typical "i can fix anything, i've done metalwork before" fashion, i decided i would take some material off the bolt to allow a proper fit, and to eliminate the peening of the bolt to the cylinder notches....


now for the possibly stupid part....i got a little over-aggressive with the removing of material... I didn't remove too much overall, but i did only remove material from one side of the bolt notch. Which, has given me a great positive lockup (very little play), but has also caused the cylinder alignment to be SLIGHTLY OFF when i look down the barrel, i can JUST BARELY see the edge of the cylinder (we're talking thousands of an inch) in the clockwise direction. (pictures below)






I think i already know what i am going to do to correct the problem, a new bolt is going to be ordered, which i will be a lot more cautious in fitting.. I have a couple pictures i'd like you guys to take a peek at, and tell me if there is a hazard to fire this weapon as is (i'd like to get to the range this week, and if there is a problem, i'd like to know beforehand...)


It may even be so small as to not be a real problem...but i don't want to create a safety issue by firing it, if it is indeed unsafe.



Thanks for the help ahead of time, and i hope i didn't ramble on too much

 

[Cap n Ball]

If you are in doubt...don't. Get the new part.

 

[mykeal]

From your pictures I don't see a problem, certainly not a safety problem. However, the real proof is how the chambers line up with the bore, and the only way to check that is to put a .44 cal wood dowel down the bore and see if it will fully engage each chamber without having to jostle the cylinder.

The dowel needs to be just slightly smaller than the bore land-to-land diameter so you might want to mike that to get the right size. A 7/16" (0.4375) dowel should work.

It's encouraging that you still get good lockup with no side or rotational play at full cock. That suggests there is no alignment problem.

 

[FLaviator]

Thanks for the help!


just got back from the hardware store, i picked up a 7/16 dowel (it fits very snugly in the barrel), and have used it to test the fit to each cylinder at full cock, and there does not seem to be a mating problem (smoothly slides in each one, without signs of binding at the barrel/cylinder mating point)

i didn't really think there was a big problem, but i figured you guys have been doing it for years longer than i, so i'd ask and be sure.

 

[Fingers McGee]

FLaviator,

These links should help you tune your Navy for optimum performance. The notches were peening cause the bolt wasn't fitted correctly. The links explain it all.

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One.pdf

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two.pdf

 

[FLaviator]

thanks for the advice Fingers


It seems that i figured out the Bolt fitting thing myself, but removed material from the opposite side of the bolt that they did... oh well, live and learn i guess...

 

[scrat]

also if you look in Blackpowder essentials the very first post you will see some articles on tuning a colt. This is basicly what you needed to do. but have removed a little too much material. what you need to do with a new bolt is put it in place check to see if you still need to remove some material. Then take out the cylinder only. then use a sharpie to mark the bolt so you know where to remove the material. then you need to use a hone or fine file and shave down to remove the sharpie mark. then do the other side until the sharpie mark is gone. Then try it again. This way you do not remove too much. and do not remove from below where the bolt goes into the cylinder.

 

[Hellgate]

I would not exceed 25 grs FFFg in that brass framed gun. I only shoot 20 grs with a .454 ball in mine and so far, so good. It is easy to shoot the brass frames loose by using heavy charges like 30 grs powder. It will likely pull the cylinder pin from its moorings in the frame and cause a lot of play in the cylinder. The cylinder gap will increase and drain power. At first, you can merely drive the wedge in a little farther to shorten the cylinder gap but eventually that won't be enough. So, resist the temptation to load a bunch of BOOMERS. Get a steel framed gun for that. I love my brass framed 44 Navy but I don't over load it as I have plenty of paperweights and don't need to create another one.

 

[FLaviator]

That's precisely what i've been doing Hellgate, i did a bit of research before i purchased, and at the price i bought it, the brass frame was the best choice for something that i wasn't sure about (although i am now, i LOVE blackpowder shooting)


I've been using 20grs of hogdon's 777, with a .454 ball which leaves a nice ring of lead... i tried 22grs once (by my calculations the equivalent of 25 grs regular powder), but i'm planning on getting some real BP soon as triple 7 is the only stuff available locally

I'm really thinking about my next purchase (even considering getting rid of a couple "normal" guns to fund my BP interests) I'm thinking my next is either going to be a Uberti Walker, or Pederlosi's Howdah pistol in .62 cal (20 ga)


not sure about a rifle/musket, i'm hoping to pick up something inexpensive at a gun show perhaps.


Black Powder is ADDICTIVE, most fun i've had shooting since i was a boy.

 

[DixieTexian]

It is quite possible that the peening on the cylinder is not due to how the bolt fits into the cylinder grove, but rather how the legs of the bolt engage the action on the inside of the gun. There are plenty of folks with the experience to guide you on fixing such a problem. Really, it is not that complicated. You just have to understand how the action works, and try and isolate each potential problem before you do any modifications. Have fun with your new addiction. You might as well start saving for a Walker now.

 

[BHP FAN]

Eventually,thet all get peening,and drag marks,and scratches.We call this ''realisim''.
Also even if there were a TINY amount of misalignment,that's what the forcing cone is for.
Also,DON'T use files,Brownells sells the proper stones [hard narrow Arkansas stones] for properly honing an action.