New Pistol, new certificate... or "how I spent my weekend"

[Ed Ames]

I finally got around to taking the Texas Concealed Handgun class. An amusing if slightly tiring way of chewing up 12 hours on a rainy December Saturday. I've now been fingerprinted, notarized, and have some of the worst photos ever taken to send to the state. That means maybe in another 60 days (give or take) I'll be able to carry (and won't have to fill out so many forms when buying new guns). It's progress.

As I'm sure everyone does when they are considering getting a CHL, I've been carrying around the house to figure out holsters and the mechanics of actually carrying. Like most noobs I figured you absolutely couldn't conceal anything but a mouse gun... imagine my surprise when (with the proper holster) a full size browning high power disappeared into my waistband/under my shirt. Well I guess many of you don't have to imagine. I was impressed. I decided that I could conceal a full size pistol without much fuss so I wasn't going to go shopping for a smaller gun yet. Then I discovered over the course of two weeks that I'm a corrosive person. My blued gun, which has looked new for years, started developing crevice rust even though I was only carrying a few hours a day and wiping it down and oiling the gun constantly. I need something with an anti-corrosion finish.

I know this next part is going to catch me some flack by the way... I'm pretty thick skinned though so I don't mind.

I looked at all the classics. Bersas and kel-tecs, springfields and even glocks. The kel-tecs are pretty specialized. I haven't made up my mind on the bersa. Glocks are expensive and they are so/so in my hand. XD seems nicer still. I really like CZ ... they have some NICE guns. I'm going to get myself a 75BD someday. I also found the Walther PPS very very nice. The problems all came down to a safety (I don't want to be dealing with a safety in a high-stress situation) and price. This is a carry gun. Carry guns are in and out of holsters, dropped, thrown, banged around, fiddled with, and constantly abused. I have no problem paying $500 or $1000+ for a range or hunting gun because I know it'll always look like new and will retain its value. I've got range guns that have been in steady use for 30+ years and look new. Same with hunting guns. The same guns, if carried concealed, get really beat up after only a couple years. Carry guns are also throw-aways... even if you don't use them they can be confiscated and they are a lot more likely to be stolen (because they are in cars and the like instead of safes). So to me a carry gun needs to be combat accurate, reliable, and cheap. At the same time I'm not too comfortable having to manually decock (that's my one complaint with the CZ-82). I was futzing around trying to choose one when I came across a much maligned name: Smith and Wesson. Specifically the S&W Sigma series. $299. 2 mags included. $50 + 2 mags mail in rebate. In the end my cost will be tax over $250 and ammo is my only other expense. The Sigmas have a seriously mixed reputation that mostly seems to be either "it's too cheap" (I don't understand the logic of that one), "the trigger sucks" (I've fired a lot of guns with worse), and "the old ones are hit and miss, the VE series is OK." (I'm buying new). ... so it seemed like it was worth a shot. $275 all up (tax included) isn't a bad price at all.

So on Friday night I head to a local store and pick up my swock. I get out of the store at about 8:45PM.

Saturday morning, 8:30AM, I start my CHL class. In the trunk of my car is my never-fired Sigma...

1PM... lunch time... get in my car, and drive from the classroom (which has a little private range attached but not available for use except for certifying) to the closest commercial range. Fired my sigma for the first time... Not nearly as bad as I was expecting. 100 rounds without any failures and four ragged holes in a sheet of paper later I pack up and head to a Subway for lunch.

Meatballs and Jalapeños... mmmm....goood....

Then my hour is up so it's back to the classroom for the second half of the show.

At 6PM, just about as the instructor has hit his stride and I'm about ready to go to sleep, it's time to bring out the guns and do the proficiency portion of the course.

Another 50 rounds through the Sigma has me "qualified", again without a hitch, and I'm ready to go. The gun is actually rather accurate. I could tell I was making some mistakes (I haven't practiced much since moving to Texas) but I put all the holes inside the 8 ring which is better than the guy with the laser-gripped .45GAP glock next to me could say (he had holes in his target from head to groin). Of course another guy with a glock (there were lots of glocks for some reason) easily outshot everyone else there. Skill is a major factor no matter what brand gun you are shooting. He also had, irony of ironies, a magazine failure part way through. Spring broke in a "genuine Glock" magazine. Seemed like a very good reminder that all mechanical devices can and will fail.

On that note and for the record... my HP was in the trunk of my car "just in case" the sigma didn't perform. So was my CZ-82. Yeah, yeah...

So I'm happy. A cheap new gun that works. A step closer to having my CHL. The weather even went from cold wet and miserable to clear skies and sunshine (though still chilly air)... all in all a strange, but good, weekend.

 

[Geronimo45]

I've now been fingerprinted, notarized, and have some of the worst photos ever taken to send to the state.

I swear that the DPS has a bounty on 'worst photos of the year', and pays off to those lucky photo-snappers that take 'em.
That's the only way I can explain three separate photos taken or sent to DPS, which show me as either a loony sheep, a thug, or a cokehead.

I do remember practicing dry-fire the night before the class. Didn't believe all the stories that the shooting part was easy.... but it was.
BTW, they let somebody use a laser? Wasn't allowed for my class.
Also... did they show you the DEA agent shooting himself in the foot? (I'm the only one in this room professional enough, that I know of, to carry a Glock .40. BANG)

P.S. My target looked like it was hit at range with a shotgun. It wasn't so bad, when another shooter had a target with enough vertical stringing that you'd swear it was a SMG target.

 

[BobbyQuickdraw]

Wow I can't believe Texas makes you go through all that.

When I lived in PA I got my CCW and it went like this:

Show up at Sheriff's Office.
Fill out paper.
Why do you want a gun? Protection.
Take Picture.
Pay small fee.
Background check.
Collect card.

Plain and simple, no qualifying, no finger printing, no hoop jumping. Tell them I want a CCW for protection and they give me the card.

The way it should be.

 

[ugaarguy]

I work at a shop that sells a ton of Sigma VEs. The only constant complaint we get is the heavy trigger. That complaint is mostly from new shooters, or folks who've only ever shot Glocks and similar autos. I'm a young guy, but a revolver fan, and the Sigma trigger doesn't bother me too bad. The ergos are great, and the guns work. The $50 plus two more mags holiday rebate is a great deal on top of a very aggressively priced gun. It's also US Made and backed, and has a lifetime warranty backed by a top notch service department. There's much to like with new Sigmas.

Good as the Sigmas are, I've really taken a shine to the M&P. If you're a gun guy who's always looking for an excuse to buy something, you should get a M&P while the same holiday rebate as on the Sigma is still in effect. The gun should be in the low $400s after rebate, which is a great price. The nicer trigger, changeable backstraps, Melonite finish over stainless slide, genuine Novak steel sights, and a few other features would justify the expense if I wasn't saving for a new rifle right now.

As for your rust issues try an anti corrosive compound. Eezeox is an oil which dries and leaves a corrosion resistant film, and I've had good results with it. I've heard good things about Sentry Solutions Tough Cloth, which is a dry lube / corrosion inhibitor impregnated cloth that's supposed to work quite well.

 

[Ed Ames]

Geronimo... the bounty theory would explain it. I've had bad photos, but never *this* bad. :LOL: And yeah, they did show the "professional enough" video among others (cop nearly shooting a handcuffed suspect who was being held down by another cop, etc.).

They let him use his laser. Didn't seem to be a competitive advantage. I might've understood *just* a vertical string (anticipating recoil) but this was more like a circular pattern. Hopefully he'll get some practice now.

Bobby... yeah, Texas really puts you through the wringer. Not very friendly. However, I disagree with you about how it should be. It should be, "hmmm... I think I feel like carrying today, shall I choose the 9mm or the 45?" and no license at all.

ugaarguy... I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding the Sigma... agressively priced and it has a lot of good featues in a value gun, but the trigger is different. Yet there's a stigma associated. The instructor, who had waxed enthusiastic about his .380 bersa during the class, "inspected" everyone's gun and ammo to make sure everything matched. When he got to mine his response was basically, "oh, one of those....." I had to laugh.

The M&P does look nice but I think my next modern gun will either be an AR or the PPS. Or maybe the CZ or... LOL... there's a reason I'm broke.

I'll check out Eezeox... that might be a good solution for a couple of issues. Thanks!

 

[NGIB]

Wow, a picture? In Georgia:

- go to courthouse
- fill out forms
- give money order and cash ($26 MO to GBI, $23 cash)
- get fingerprinted
- go home and wait a long time to receive in the mail

No class and not a soul ever asked me why or if I even knew what a handgun was.

(While I'm glad I didn't have to pay for a class it does worry me that it may be to easy and we'll have folks out there armed with no training and/or experience. Then again, the less meddling by the state the better I guess.)

 

[Ed Ames]

Texas has the same problem as California jut not a bad yet. The urban (and largely anti-gun) population is in control but the rural people have some power left. Leaves a rather split personality. I read the Texas newspapers and talk to people and it's pretty obvious that Texas today is like CA maybe 30 years ago. Texas is getting a lot of new residents and most of them are urban. The rural population is declining as the open land is converted to houses and the children of farmers are getting "real" jobs. As that shift happens Texas will be the next CA, formerly free and mostly rural but dominated by the big cities.

Of course "it can't happen here." sigh...

 

[NGIB]

Lived in Texas for 9 years (83-92) and I would have thought this was the last state that would ever end up with California type laws. If it can happen in Texas, it can happen everywhere...

 

[Ed Ames]

Maybe I'm wrong. I've just seen too many (Dallas area) newspaper editorials where people are gloating about how Texas is finally becoming urban enough that the cities can force the rurries to do what's right instead of having to negotiate with their constant obstructionism.

Coming from California and having seen how high density urban areas can dominate a large and diverse state I'm pretty sensitive to the problem.

 

[AndyC]

I'll be doing my CHL soon too - as soon as I get my pistol this coming weekend. I'm interested in seeing the differences in how I used to teach this stuff to how it's done locally - should be fun

 

[Jenrick]

Ed Ames: If you're getting a corrosion problem with an IWB holster, you might try OWB. I'm a very corrosive person as well, and OWB combined with a good undershirt keeps things from rusting.

When I looked at sigma I got the normal "there POS" response, but everyone who actually owned one liked them quiet a bit. Been looking at M&P's lately, that and the Sig P250 intrigue me mightly (if I was single I would have so many more guns).

On another note I honestly don't see the "urbanite" Texans out voting the rural folks. Texas has roughly four major urban centers: Austin, DFW, Houston, and San Antonio. Of those only Austin is really truly CA style wacky (so of course it's where I end up living and working, as a LEO no less). Houston has a low voter turn out historically in state wide issues, and even less on city issues. DFW and San Antonio tend to be fairly conservative, as a large portion of their register population lives in suburbs so far out they'd be a separate municipality in most other cities (Austin even has a few enclaves).

Additionally Texas has a LARGE number of fairly large VERY conservative towns. Georgetown for instance is now close to 60K people. It's about 30 minutes from Austin, and is about as Law and Order, conservative, get the gov't out of my backyard as you can get.

I think it's something to keep an eye, but the majority of the folks who move to texas who are going to try and change the "Texan" way of life move to the Austin area (job-security I guess). It makes Travis county an odd place to live, but the rest of the state benifits from them being all concentrated here.

-Jenrick

 

[Ed Ames]

I strongly suspect that all but a few people on this forum could pass the test and do the required shooting without any special preperation. The CHL law says "10 hours instruction". though

Quite a bit of the official part of the course (and test) was designed to discourage people from getting a CHL they don't really need. "You don't need a CHL to carry a gun at home." "You don't need a CHL to carry a gun at your business or in your hotel room." "You don't need a CHL to carry a gun in your car." Plus of course a healthy dose of "trained LEOs have a .869 second response time in identifying a threat even when they have a gun in their hands so don't expect to be able to defend yourself with a gun in your holster."

Turns out there are more reasons than ever not to get a CHL in Texas now. In September they clarified the "traveling" (carry in your car without a license) laws but they left a situation where you, today, as an unlicensed person, can have a handgun in your center console and not get into trouble for not having your license with you (because you have no license) or not telling a LEO about it but as soon as the license is issued you can be arrested for doing the same thing if you don't have the license on you and notify/give it to the cop as soon as possible. Getting the license actually reduces your rights in that way and a few others. Add a scare story about people getting strip searched for having the license but no gun and they are really trying to make sure you are serious before you send in your paperwork.

The other bad part is sort of a personal gripe of mine. The whole "It's a magazine, not a clip!" button was hit hard enough at the gun store where everything was "clip" "clip" "clip", but when the instructor starts referring to it half the time as a slide I just don't know what to say. Throw out any sense of what the right word is for any common concept you may think you know (Accidental vs Negligent, Magazine vs slide, and so on) and have fun with whatever you are given, knowing that you'll pass the legal requirements no matter what (assuming you don't have much of a criminal background).

 

[Ed Ames]

Oh, and because I missed seeing Jenrick's post...

I sure hope you are right about the urbanites not having much effect as a whole. Maybe I just have some sort of persecuted minority complex from my time in California. I grew up in a "conservative" area (Orange County, CA ... the Republican stronghold in SoCal) and it was still very anti-gun for all of that. Then I moved to a more rural part of CA where the average person was at least as pro-gun as anyone you are likely to meet in Texas... but they were totally dominated by the majority. It's a study in why this country is suppoosed to be a constitutional republic instead of a democracy.

It seems like good OWB concealment holsters are more expensive and maybe harder to get than IWB holsters? I'll definitely be trying it but I'm still very new to the art of carrying at this point.

So far I'm really impressed with the Sigma as what it is. It isn't a work of art, isn't a sports car... it's a Toyota Corolla gun at a Toyota Carolla price. Hard to complain about that even if Toyota Carollas aren't my favorite.

LOL at the "if I wasn't married"

 

[SHOTGUNJOE]

Congrats Ed Ames on your Texas CHL. My card was in my mail box exactly 6 weeks to the day here in the Dallas area . I look like a crazy person in my CHL photo - everyone in my class was laughing. I originally wanted a Springfield Armory XD .40 sub-compact for CCW - but I ended up getting the 4" service XD .40 (a little big & heavy). I realize now that I need my CCW smaller & lighter.

Oh well - live & learn.

 

[Autolycus]

Orginally posted by BobbyQuickdraw: Wow I can't believe Texas makes you go through all that.

When I lived in PA I got my CCW and it went like this:

Show up at Sheriff's Office.
Fill out paper.
Why do you want a gun? Protection.
Take Picture.
Pay small fee.
Background check.
Collect card.

Plain and simple, no qualifying, no finger printing, no hoop jumping. Tell them I want a CCW for protection and they give me the card.

The way it should be.

Actually the way it should be is that you buy your gun, get your holster and carry your gun around. That it. No permits, no background checks, etc. Just carry the gun and that is it.

 

[Fish828]

yeah bobby, I live in PA also and there is no hassle to get a CC permit. and tecumseh, that is the way it is in PA if you're not carrying it concealed - you can go in a gun store, buy a pistol and then open carry it in a holster on your belt right out of the store, no permit required.

 

[massglockman]

damn i hate mass its the worst state in the us i had to wait 2months for appointment then fill out app take pic get fingerprinted then wait 11 weeks for the damn thing in the mail

 

[Quoheleth]

Target qualification

Ed,

I'm curious as to how the qualification went. I gather the target was the torso-style (I don't know what it's called). What distance was the target fired upon? What score is needed to pass - and how is the target scored?

I ask because after months of...shall we say "negotiation"...my wife has OKed me going after a CCL. Of course, she did so laughing at me, "Just when do you think you'll actually be be able to use it???" But that's another thread...

Thanks,
Q

 

[Ed Ames]

If you are a recreational shooter the qualification shooting is EASY. As in their standards are way lower than you probably have for yourself.

It's a silhouette target ... they had pale orange or pale blue (two colors, maybe there are others?) but they were basically man shaped. The targets are solid color except for lines which are just paper colored. It's low contrast so at close range you can see the lines but a little further off they disappear.

I copied this off a web page that seems to be dead now...

3 yard line - 20 shots:

1 shot in 2 seconds, 5 times
2 shots in 3 seconds, 5 times
5 shots in 10 seconds, once

7 yard line - 20 shots:

5 shots in 10 seconds, once
1 shot in 3 seconds, 5 times
2 shots in 4 seconds, once
3 shots in 6 seconds, once
5 shots in 15 seconds, once

15 yard line - 10 shots:

2 shots in 6 seconds, once
3 shots in 9 seconds, once
5 shots in 15 seconds, once

There are multiple rings in the target and the goal is to get as close to the center as possible. At short range you hit the pale X and further out you aim for your group. There is a scoring scheme but it wasn't any challenge. They require 70% and you've needed to miss the paper a few times to get that. If they wanted to challenge people they would've started at 15 yards and moved inwards. That's what I would've done but I'm evil.

The instructor was watching the shooters more than the targets and I get the impression he was really looking for muzzle sweeps and the like. He never once went up to the targets and counted holes. He really concentrated on the marginal shooters. He said only two things to me and both were positive. He spent quite a bit of time discussing safety and aiming with a couple of the newer shooters (they both rented guns so I assume they hadn't had any practice in a long time if ever). Everybody passed though and at least in our case the instructor said he would've worked with or allowed a "do over" for anyone who had a bad run.

 

[QuakKillz]

Actually the way it should be is that you buy your gun, get your holster and carry your gun around. That it. No permits, no background checks, etc. Just carry the gun and that is it.

"should be" the key phrase there......

 

[Ritchie]

Thanks to the benevolence of the State of Colorado, I have the
government's permission to exercise that right.
Is it just coincidence that the two states that are permit-free are
also colder than the average state? Discuss.

 

[average_shooter]

There is a scoring scheme but it wasn't any challenge. They require 70% and you've needed to miss the paper a few times to get that. If they wanted to challenge people they would've started at 15 yards and moved inwards.

That's pretty much how the shooting qual part of the process goes here in MN.

Funny story, in my class I was the only one shooting .45ACP, I think a couple guys were shooting .38Spec. WCs and one .22lr. I shot last. One of the guys was looking at my target (silhouette) funny and asked, "Is that keyholing at three yards?!?" The instructor and I both looked at him and the instructor said "No, it's a .45, the hole's actually that big."
Guy:
Me:

ETA: Actually, I think it was partly due to how close the target was. I think the muzzle blast tore up the paper more than the bullet did. Cool effect, though, the target was pretty well shredded after 40 rounds.

 

[crebralfix]

TEXAS is NOT a pro-gun state (on the political level).

Total myth. Why people cling to these ideas is beyond me.

 

[ashgee]

Getting the license actually reduces your rights in that way and a few others.

That's a bit like how it was in the last place (small West-EU country) I lived. 3 permits there: Detention (should not leave the house), Sports (only leave the house on the shortest way to/fro the range), Carry (must have good reason).

A Detainer friend who lives on the outskirts of town had a small range set up on a piece of land he owns some 12 miles from his house. Got nabbed a few times transporting his gear in the trunk and was let off with a frown and a tut-tut each time.

A Sporter friend of his was caught well away from the permitted route/s on his way home from the range (mum in hospital after accident, he never thought twice) and got a $2200 fine but kept his gun. He later learned that someone else in a similar situation had not been so lucky and lost their gear on top of a hefty fine.

A story about a Carrier whose permit had expired and was permanently blacklisted from receiving any permits for 15 years couldn't be verified, but knowing the authorities in said place, I'll believe it.

Several friendly LEOs there have offered the same comment every time this sort of thing came up: "guy shoulda known better". When I joked about better not having any paper and just taking your chance, they actually thought one would stand a good chance of getting away with it if in the 'respectable citizen, just wanna protect my familly' category. Confiscation probable, but fine not so sure. Thought that was pretty amazing.

And for those who wonder about all that nabbing in the first place: in the few years I spent there, I was stopped by roadblocks at least a dozen times. SMGs poking through car windows no rarity, serious. They have good reasons for the roadblocks, but that's another story. I noticed one member here who lives in the place I mean, and he can confirm all of this, I reckon.