New Pro-Gun Argument: It's a Cultural Thing

[CmdrSlander]

This is a blanket response to the demand that guns be banned by anti-gun groups, especially those with left-leaning politics:

Guns are an integral part of certain subsets of American culture. To you they may represent death and evil, but to other people, who are just as American as you are, they represent security, sporting, history and camaraderie. These views are not limited to any one region but they are more common in rural areas as well as the American south and midwest.

In the aforementioned cultural subsets, guns can play a major role in their social interaction, with gatherings occurring at shooting ranges, gun shops, and shooting competitions. The vast majority of these people do not seek to bring harm to anyone with their guns unless they are forced to in a self or home defense scenario. (Even weapons that are considered 'assault weapons' by some groups, such as the AR15, are frequently employed by hunters and target shooters. The AR15 was designed to be a lightweight and accurate firearm, capacity is variable at the discretion of the shooter, nothing about the AR15, or other 'assault weapons' is intrinsically evil.)

Though you may not understand nor seek to understand this culture, though you may fear it, you cannot seek to eliminate it. You would not do so in any other situation, you (liberals) have often advocated for cultural tolerance and the acceptance of differences no matter how large. You do not have to accept gun culture, but you should seek to coexist with it, not combat it.


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Alright THR, what do you think of this argument?

 

[Captain33036]

I have gone through quite a number of arguments with anti-gun people who relentlessly bleet, guns kill people, guns kill.

And after all this, I now have but one reply, "What, you never read Beowulf?"

 

[TurtlePhish]

It sounds good. Definitely not as "numbers" based as other arguments, but then again, neither are most of the antis'. I've thought about the whole "cultural tolerance" (or lack thereof pertaining to gun owners) thing and I've also wondered how people manage to advocate coexistence while simultaneously arguing against another form of it.

 

[JustinJ]

Guns are an integral part of certain subsets of American culture. To you they may represent death and evil, but to other people, who are just as American as you are, they represent security, sporting, history and camaraderie.

Most who support gun control object to what guns facilitate, not what they represent.

Though you may not understand nor seek to understand this culture, though you may fear it, you cannot seek to eliminate it. You would not do so in any other situation, you (liberals) have often advocated for cultural tolerance and the acceptance of differences no matter how large. You do not have to accept gun culture, but you should seek to coexist with it, not combat it.

All people you probably refer to as liberal do not support gun control as all people on the right do not oppose it. And i suspect one who supports gun control would reply to you that slavery was once a part of southern culture as well but that alone does not make it acceptable.

 

[DefiantDad]

I applaud the effort to give more ammo to debates against anti-gunners, but I don't think the culture argument directly addresses the PURPOSE of the Second Amendment, which has nothing to do with hunting, sport, etc.

All those things are just by-products of citizenry owning firearms.

And JustinJ made a good point, that some aspects of "culture" can be questionable. We find the "culture" of some people eating dogs abhorrent, and some other cultures might condone underage sex, and some even allow husbands to beat (and kill) their wives.

 

[CmdrSlander]

Most who support gun control object to what guns facilitate, not what they represent.



All people you probably refer to as liberal do not support gun control as all people on the right do not oppose it. And i suspect one who supports gun control would reply to you that slavery was once a part of southern culture as well but that alone does not make it acceptable.

I understand we cannot paint all liberals with the same brush, I have some liberal views but wholeheartedly support gun ownership. This argument is tailored to liberals who also oppose gun ownership, not necessarily to all liberals on the basis that liberal = anti, which is not true.

 

[JustinJ]

I understand we cannot paint all liberals with the same brush, I have some liberal views but wholeheartedly support gun ownership. This argument is tailored to liberals who also oppose gun ownership, not necessarily to all liberals on the basis that liberal = anti, which is not true.

If you understand that then don't do it. Instead of the term liberal us the term "anti" or "gun control proponents". Also, don't forgot that not all on the right are pro gun. The current republican presidential candidate for example signed a state wide "assault weapons ban" while governor of Massachusetts.

 

[danweasel]

Yes it is VERY important not to drop the Lib-bomb when advocating for gun rights. I know from personal experience if you start out with the term liberal or another negative term you might as well not start at all.

 

[bobbo]

Painting everyone with the same brush does nothing but make people who may not agree with you on everything turn around and agree with you on nothing. That is the sort of discussion that makes it so hard to get any compromise in many areas -- the "I'm right, you're wrong, and never the twain shall meet" never helps. Ask Congress how that attitude works out.

To the beginning of your premise, I'll play the devil's advocate by replacing one noun and seeing if it can work:

The Klan is an integral part of certain subsets of American culture. To you they may represent death and evil, but to other people, who are just as American as you are, they represent security, sporting, history and camaraderie. These views are not limited to any one region but they are more common in rural areas as well as the American south and midwest... Though you may not understand nor seek to understand this culture, though you may fear it, you cannot seek to eliminate it. You would not do so in any other situation, you (non-bigots) have often advocated for cultural tolerance and the acceptance of differences no matter how large. You do not have to accept Klan culture, but you should seek to coexist with it, not combat it.

Well, that didn't work... Doesn't mean I like gun control, just that your particular argument doesn't stand up very well. Better to discuss it in a friendly atmosphere (i.e.: here) rather than blare it on the loudspeakers to gun-grabbers who may tear it apart. .

 

[berettaprofessor]

Ain't exactly a new argument.....

 

[Yelovitz_503]

I like this argument. It seems to confront some of the hypocrisy (or hypocrazy) that one encounters when trying to have a reasonable conversation. It's hard to talk facts with someone who has already made up their mind without needing facts, and to whom facts that don't confirm their preexisting bias are irrelevant. I like your argument, but will it work?

 

[Texan Scott]

CIRCUMCISION is a cultural thing (not that it stops people from getting upset about people 'maiming their babies for religious reasons').
Gun ownership is a legally, Constitutionally guaranteed civil liberty and fundamental to my inherent right as a human being to defend myself. Antis do not respect 'gun culture' ... have you never heard them talk about our 'culture of violence'?
Very few hypocrites are AWARE that they are hypocrites... they have persuaded themselves that their subjective, self-servingly inconsistent double standards on 'cultural sensitivity' are valid because they 'mean well'.
Reason with those that WANT to listen and learn; don't waste your breath on the rest- just vote them down.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (Matt. 7:6, KJV)

 

[Walkalong]

If you understand that then don't do it. Instead of the term liberal us the term "anti" or "gun control proponents".

Exactly.

 

[jbrown50]

The term "gun culture" is the anti's way of establishing a temporary geographical border between us and them. For now, until they can gain back their lost momentum, they're willing to concede the Midwest, Southern and other non-urban areas as long as we allow them to maintain their majority hold on urbanized America.

There's no such thing as a "gun culture" in America. It's a term they use to maintain their foothold. The term also alludes that we're some type of neanderthals who's thought process isn't as progressive as theirs. They're just waiting for us to die off so that they can eventually save society from these evil guns.

We should not allow them to maintain any footholds.

 

[blarby]

Sadly, any new firearms legislation will not have any effect on the existing illegal firearms possessed with evil intent in America.

Gangbangers, potential murderers, sociopaths, and other undesirables will not simply relinquish their arms at the signing of a new law. Those who wish to do evil in possession of any weapon will simply find another means of acquiring it, or another weapon.

In this latest tragedy, its very obvious that should he the attacker chose to have done so, he could have carried an explosive device into the theater capable of just as much destruction as he wrought with small arms. The only reason he did not is that he himself wanted to inflict each wound, end each life....and he had some sort of theory that he could escape that situation with his own life. Very sad, but very true.

This is not a standard legal weapons owner. This is a violent sociopath.

In truth, if you wanted to make a law that would prevent this tragedy, as well as another one in nearby Columbine....all you would need to do is outlaw social deviant and castigated 14-30 year old males who were failures in academic environments.

Hows that for some targeted legislation ? Not real fun is it..............but its true.

Its not the victims' fault.

Its not the weapons fault.

Its not the theaters fault.

Its not your fault.

Its not societies fault.

Its not my fault.

The fault rests solely in the lap of that "tie-died orange haired" freak.....no one else.

Society has a habit of producing violent aberrations in even the most peaceful and harmless of environments.

We are, by nature, a predatory and violent species. One that is frequently shortsighted and self serving at the most basic primitive level. When we feel that.... that ability to sustain ourselves in this society no longer exists, that primal creature takes over- no longer salved by the constraints of a polite society to which we no longer have the ability nor desire to connect with.

This too, is sad, but true.

No amount of litigation or restriction will prevent such aberrations, nor quash their ability to inflict their wounds of self perceived vitriolic justice on the society that has wronged them.

Its almost as if its a genetic glitch.

KILL KILL KILL

We have a motto, humanity.

Death is its banner- and it always has been......always will be.

The ability to take life , and the lives of others, into our hands as a responsibility or debt as individuals is both a very constructive and powerful force at the core of humanity.

It has both a light, and dark, side.

Even the mightiest of human spirits can be reduced to our primitive selves by failure, and use the abilities within and without us to lash out .......

But in the end, those failures are our own. Not that of our brothers.

They may be effect, and direct cause. Action however, rests solely in the hands of the individual.

That is something that no law, no test, no background check, nor assay will ever be able to detect- the will of the individual.