New Remington 405 gr .45-70 factory loading

[.455_Hunter]

I was at Sportsman's recently and they had a new Remington .45-70 loading, featuring the famous 405 gr JSP at 1600 fps, as opposed to the classic 1330 fps. This generates essentially the same energy as the more modern 300 gr loadings, and is indicated as NOT for use in Trapdoors.

Does anybody have experience with this loading?

The crimp was pretty intense, with some uniform creases, and I am not not sure if they would cause chambering issues. I purchased some HSM .32-20 that had similar case folding, and they would not chamber in a .32 Hand Ejector.

 

[3Crows]

Well, that is news to me! That is interesting for sure.

I am still concerned to run copper jacketed bullets through my Marlin that has only seen HCL loads from plinking level to bear stopper level. I say this because if this ammo had existed previously I would have not been shooting HCL loads hardly at all, instead of entirely. Hmmm.

 

[bfoosh006]

Also news to me... I love my Browning 45/70 Carbine>

Its about time for some more modern 400ish gr 45/70 loads from a Major Manufacturer.

 

[Peakbagger46]

That looks awesome! I drew a T-Rex tag for October. Since all the oak brush in the area limits shots to close up and personal, I will consider using this round. I will of course pack my wonder 9 pistol for a backup just in case.

 

[troy fairweather]

I'd say that's about as fast I'd run the 405 rem. Any faster they start to come apart, but by then it's on its way out of the animal. I've shot cases of the old 405 ammo for the brass, should be nice in the shorter lever guns, but with a 400+ grain bullet it doesn't have to be going fast to kill. Helps with drop tho.

How much a box is it, the Remington 405 have been so over priced.

 

[.455_Hunter]

How much a box is it, the Remington 405 have been so over priced?

Mid-$30's- Much less than other "higher performance" loadings.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Well- I picked-up the last two boxes at the store. We will see how it does.

In the finest tradition of current Remington ammo production, the primers are two different colors mixed in the box.

 

[Demi-human]

In the finest tradition of current Remington ammo production, the primers are two different colors mixed in the box.

It always amazes me what some companies consider “Professional Production”.

I have thought for a long time the only Remingtons products to not have received the Corporate Blood Sucking has been their Centerfire ammunition. I love the 220grain Blackout ammo they make. Runs perfect and straight!

I like the forward thinking, but something as petty as a primer color does give me pause.
Are they unable to keep them separate during the primer change in the system?
Wrinkled cases? From the factory? Isn’t that where they make them? How do they not know how to avoid that?

Anyway, I hope they are every bit as awesome as they sound for you “Grand Daddy Big Bore” shooters.

New stuff is good, even if it’s for old cartridges.

 

[Riomouse911]

Those will be some good big game loads for sure. I’ve loaded lots of the Remington 405 gr JSP that I bought in bulk from Midway over a healthy dose of IMR 4198 for years.

They put a hurtin’ on the intended targets as well as the shoulder.

Stay safe.

 

[troy fairweather]

There new loading is still about 700-800fps slower then what's the 45/70 can do with a 400 class bullet, they can be nasty on both ends. But trapdoor speed will kill anything that walks on land.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Pic’s of the box please!

 

[3Crows]

https://www.remington.com/ammunition/centerfire-rifle/core-lokt

 

[MEHavey]

I was at Sportsman's recently and they had a new Remington .45-70 loading, featuring the famous 405 gr JSP at 1600 fps

Their new loading is still about 700-800fps slower then what's the 45/70 can do with a 400 class bullet

Ahem... are you describing a 45-405-70 doing 2,400 fps?
(inquiring minds want to know)

 

[3Crows]

I would think that might turn your rifle into a kit? The BB 430 grain is 1880 FPS from the 18.5 inch barrel, the BB 405 grain is 1955 FPS and HMS Bear Load 430 grain is 1800 FPS. These are all +P loads. I could not imagine 405 grain bullets at 2400 FPS from any lever gun, maybe a Ruger No. 1?

 

[MEHavey]

QL tells me that max practical Ruger#1(22")/pressure(60ksi)/compression(110%) for a 45-405-70 is 2,165fps
(And I'm not even going to hint at what powder/charge)

 

[troy fairweather]

Ahem... are you describing a 45-405-70 doing 2,400 fps?
(inquiring minds want to know)

I've gone up to 2300 with the 400 swift. That's with a 22" from my Siamese mauser . I think if it had a 26" barrel with the never powders today 2 400 can be reached. Same for the no1 ruger.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Pic’s of the box please!

Here is a pic at SG Ammo...

https://www.sgammo.com/product/remi...ment-405-grain-spcl-soft-point-core-lokt-full

I might see the same case folds at the crimp in the picture as my purchased ammo, so maybe they are supposed to be there.

 

[3Crows]

The crimp folds are supposed to be there. Whatever die process they use, that is how it looks. I am not fussing at anyone but I do tire of Remington bashing. I am sure this new ammo is fine.

 

[MEHavey]

As others have noted, that's a rolled cannelure in the case to prevent bullet setback into the case volume.
Perfectly normal

 

[3Crows]

I use the Lee Factory Crimp die for my 45-70 reloads. I am most certainly not an expert or even a good reloader. I follow the cook books and what I do know for sure is that I do not want my reloads seating the bullet back into the case under the heavy recoil that a 45-70 can generate and with the rounds stacked in that tube, it certainly could happen with a poor crimp. And that could be a bad thing.

 

[ECVMatt]

I will definitely get some for my GG. Although I mostly hand load, I do like to support companies when they move things in the right direction.

 

[MEHavey]

I've gone up to 2300 with the 400 swift. That's with a 22" from my Siamese mauser

Take a look at Barnes' MAX loadouts (55,000psi/Ruger #1) for a 24" barrel.
They entirely consistent with the data in Post #15 above.

Chopping 50fps off their data for a 22" barrel/400gr bullet leaves me w/ ~2,100fps/55,000psi
Using the velocity-cubed ratio for pressure estimation, you're looking 72,500 psi to reach 2,400psi

What test, analysis, and/or instrumentation are you using to determine the pressure associated w/ your load ?

 

[troy fairweather]

Take a look at Barnes' MAX loadouts (55,000psi/Ruger #1) for a 24" barrel.
They entirely consistent with the data in Post #15 above.

Chopping 50fps off their data for a 22" barrel/400gr bullet leaves me w/ ~2,100fps/55,000psi
Using the velocity-cubed ratio for pressure estimation, you're looking 72,500 psi to reach 2,400psi

What test, analysis, and/or instrumentation are you using to determine the pressure associated w/ your load ?

Was running a very long col, plus have it throated for the swifts. Used a 30" drop tube to get powder in, and I'm not saying these were sammi spec they were hot. Used a chronograph, my barrel always ran pretty fast think it was 40-50 fps slower then a marlin cowboy my dad had at the time.

Trapdoor to middle range marlin loads is all I use anymore, like I said went up to 2300fps. Maybe if I had a 26" could reach 2400.

 

[Demi-human]

I am not fussing at anyone.

Good. Then stop there. When one owns as many “R”s as I do, I am allowed to be petty about primer color, as they make those too.
Yes, those are cannelures, not creases from too tight a crimp.

A Lee factory crimp die can be modified to make a set-back cannelure on any case one wishes to. Once they’ve been pressed into a case they don’t come out, however. I find them to be performance enhancing on my Bushmaster.

(Funny. I probably wouldn’t have said anything if not for the word “bashing”.)

 

[3Crows]

A Lee factory crimp die can be modified to make a set-back cannelure on any case one wishes to. Once they’ve been pressed into a case they don’t come out, however. I find them to be performance enhancing on my Bushmaster.

Could you explain that further please. The modifying of the die? Not sure I follow that as to how to accomplish or why I would want to. Maybe another thread is needed for that.

I am sorry my wording upset you, it was not intended to cause a fuss.

The barrel on my GG is so accustomed to lead I am not sure I would purchase of of these new full pressure rounds, I have only shot 20 of the trapdoor rounds before switching exclusively to lead cast bullets, mostly the MBC 405 grain for hand loads and HSM Cowboy for fun (and some hunting) and HSM Bear for hunting. But had these been available when I bought the rifle I would have been more likely to stay with a jacketed bullet using the trapdoor for fun (and some hunting) and the full pressure rounds for hunting.