New Remington 870 - another failure to extract story

[monduconstruct]

Actually I think Gun Genie is saying $938 for the one I wanted this morning ... then MA taxes ... cripes!

 

[oneounceload]

Big Green is not the Big Green I used to know

Unfortunately, very true - I have a Model 7, 700 BDL and an XP-100 - all over 20 years old and all have great triggers and are accurate. My 1100 has an issue now and again, but nothing a new spring can't fix.

I'm sure they mean the gun to fire out of the box repeatedly - but as has been beat to death on these forums, there is an issue that generally seems to include rough chamber finishes that help in making FTE more of a reality.

Would perfectly finishing the chambers add some cost? Undoubtedly, but is it enough to bump it completely out of its price point? It seems to Cerebus that it is.

How to change their minds? Communicate the displeasure to them en masse, stop buying their products until changed. Those tactics work in other industries as well

 

[Virginian]

If it don't work, make them fix it. I have yet to hear of someone who tried that and they didn't fix it. That may make them institute some quality control if enough people do it. Accountants are running companys these days, and the numbers drive the actions. I do not believe they have a quality control team working on Expresses. Look at a new Wingmaster or Sporting Clays model and you will see where the quality control team is spending their time.

 

[smokeyandthebandit05]

Buy a new Ithaca 37 or a BPS and forget about the Express. That gun is the worst example of cutting cost I have seen.

This is what I did. I went to a gun shop looking for a nice 870 or a similar pump 12 gauge. They wanted $400 something for the 870. That day I held alot of shotguns...some ~1000+. When it came down to it I bought a Browning BPS hunter over the 870 and Im glad I did.

 

[greyeyezz]

You want an 870 that extracts? $780.

Nonsense. There are a million used 870's out there for sale.

To the OP polish the chamber with a drill, steel wool and oil, you can check the grooves in the receiver where the action bars run for a bur. The 870 is a very uncomplicated weapon.

 

[AKElroy]

To the OP polish the chamber with a drill, steel wool and oil, you can check the grooves in the receiver where the action bars run for a bur.

While this is of course the right fix; It is perfectly appropriate to blast Remmington for shipping even ONE express without doing this themselves. They are quick to point out that they do this for the 870p. One should not have to do anything to a NIB firearm to get it to function reliably.

 

[greyeyezz]

This is 2010. Very little is made with any integrity nowadays. Even LMT is using MIM parts in their AR's now.

 

[Big D]

And that makes it ok to turn out 870's that are not up to snuff out of the box? In my opinion I equate everyone turning a blind eye to Remington's problems to a police officer who does not write his mayor a ticket for almost killing someone for extremely wreckless driving....

 

[Gord]

Question: how many of the reported 870 FTEs are due to Winchester ammo? MAX100 brings up the multitude of threads dealing with the FTE issue, but my guess is that most of those eventually turned up a mention of using Winchester promo loads by the OP...

My 870 will hang on those Winchester shells, literally half the time, even after polishing the chamber. It also extracts everything else I've tried - Federal, Remington, Wolf, S&B, Fiocchi, Estate and probably a few others - absolutely flawlessly. I've gone out of my way to buy a box or two of "crappy"/bottom-shelf ammo whenever I've been able to find 'em, just to see whether my 870 had issues with any of them similar to those it has with Winchester shells. There have been none.

You draw your own conclusions...

 

[Al LaVodka]

My own conclusion? Um, that the NEW Winchester is just as bad as Remington has become!?
Kidding!
I think...
Al

 

[Zack]

My 870 got it last year in the fall, has had no problems yet, only about 200 rounds through it so far. I paid $270 for it.

You can always try a saiga 12 I hear a lot of good things about those.

 

[Kali]

wow up until reading this thread I was planning on buying an 870 this weekend. now im thinking BPS or Mossy 500.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

If it won't reliably extract from two different barrels, one of them not a Remington, then it seems there might be a problem with the extractor itself. Maybe it wasn't cut right. Maybe there's a burr that keeps it from fully engaging.

Seriously, people, what do you expect from a manufacturer run by a holding company like Cerberus? The key decisions are being made by MBAs, accountants and marketing people. The bottom line is god to them. They don't care whether your gun works, they may not even care whether Remington exists 18 months from now. All they want is to be promoted out of the place with a big pay increase. If their bright idea makes the numbers look better for a few months and they realize their goal, why should they care about what happens afterwards? Remington is being sacrificed to the god of quick profits. I say this as a guy with a safe full of Big Green products...thankfully, older ones.

Saigas make more sense all the time. It's good that we have some place to turn to get reliable arms at decent prices. In some strange way, it seems the Russkies are repaying us for all the trouble they caused in the past.
Bob

 

[MAX100]

The chamber problem goes back a few years before Ceberus took over. Remington was 200 million in debt when they were bought out. It hasn't gotten any better since Cerberus.

GC

 

[bluetoothless]

After much research for a salt water tolerant 12 ga. pump I went with a Remington 870 XCS Marine Magnum. They made this model for a short window of time supposedly due to added cost/lack of sales from their patented black matte TriNyte finish atop of electroless nickel. One of the main reasons I chose this over Mossberg or Winchester was ...pardon the pun "it's bulletproof" claims from staunch supporters. I thought luck was in my favor when local Gander employee ordered one from another store for couple hundred less then many brokers that couldn't even find one anywhere. Too excited to notice defects in finish on barrel lip and magazine tube until a day later on 2/25/10. Called Remington that day despite comfort knowing I had two year warranty and one additional from Gander. Remington customer service wanted me to send gun in to their QC department and be without until parts were available. I insisted otherwise and they agreed to order and send new barrell and mag. tube extension as soon as they are made available by factory.......Told they were on backorder most likely fifteen day wait, but promised thirty day max. Eight weeks later(tomorrow) they still don't know when the parts will be manufactured and cannot get Management on the phone. I have written two letters via email and responses weren't made until I followed up with phone calls. What's going on with America's oldest firearm manufacturer? MSRP on XCS Marine Magnum was close to $900 originally and I was willing to pay that for presumed quality.

 

[Pocket Rocket]

You want an 870 that extracts? $780

I have the same extraction problem in my 870P ($764 back in 2007) with the cheap-o shells. Bulk pack Winchester and Federal stick and I have to either bash the stock on the ground to extract or rack the slide with a slightly forward motion before pulling rearward. I can, however, run any cheap Remington through it as well as any quality shells like Federal's LE, Fiocchi, etc. While I think the gun will function when I need it, I still would like it to function even with the economy stuff.

 

[rc601962]

Pocket, I would take the gun into a good gunsmith. It should only cost $75 or so to have them fix this. If your gun is a defensive gun, you need to have confidence in it.

 

[Big D]

Although I own an older Remington 870 and like it, I was blown away by the short time I owned a Mossberg 500A Mariner, which I stupidly sold! But its ok, I'm picking up my new Mossberg 500A Persuader tomorrow. I will say this....my older 870 (with ejector spring broke off) does not run 100%, although suprisingly it does still function well enough to shoot, but I no longer trust it 110%. I never had a problem with it until the ejctor spring broke, so theres your sign. Now I also bought a brand new 870 20ga Magnum, which I purchased in '06 or '07, and had no problems with it up to the time I sold it in July of '09. I've had relatively good experiences with Remington, but I personally prefer the Mossberg after owning one for a short amount of time. To me, the company and products are a hell of a lot better than Remington at this current point in time. Look, when a company under the same corporation is turning out pump shotguns (NEF Pardner for example) that are better than the company that has been doing it for a lot longer (Remington), something is wrong. Yeah, the opposition may be Chinese, but damn Remington needs to be bitch-slapped back into reality and start making products like it used to.....for a reasonable price. A person should not have to fork out $500 to $1000 dollars for a good, HD shottie like people are having to do now for the 870P versions. The 870P is what Remington should have been offering all along, around the $350 dollar price point, but no they'd rather be out sold by a sister company.....man its sad.

 

[rc601962]

The sad part is that the 870P is reported to have chamber problems too.

 

[Big D]

You're kidding?

 

[Joe Mamma]

You know what was going through my mind when all this happened?

SOMEONE COULD DIE IF THEY TRUSTED THIS GUN.

It is not a joke and we are not Remington's quality control team. You don't get to knowingly put out garbage and then get a chance to "make it right".

It is criminal negligence.

I agree with you. I also have an 870 which had significant failure to extract problems. After shooting many rounds before I could figure out how to fix it, I took it to a Remington certified armorer and he fixed it. I had to pay him though.

There are a lot of people who buy 870s because they are supposed to be so reliable it's not even an issue. But, the reality I that I tell people to think twice before buying an 870. It's not a reliable gun.

Joe Mamma

 

[greyeyezz]

So Remington won't fix this under warranty? Call them, raise hell, demand a shipping label and have them fix it. If enough people do this maybe they will get tired of fixing guns that should have went out right in the first place.

 

[bluetoothless]

Remington called me Wednesday and said they finally got the barrell in and shipped it overnight so I got it this morning. Surprisingly eight weeks later the replacement Remington 870 XCS Marine Magnum barrell's bead sight base was on relatively straight which will allow Trak Lock II Ghost Ring front to be mounted properly, but it had the identical finish imperfection on the muzzle lip! I am pretty certain it's the electroless nickel shining through the black TriNyte possible where a drip or burr was sanded off??? They found a way to order the magazine tube extension, but it's on backorder also!

 

[bluetoothless]

Gander Mountain offered to buy original shotgun back upon arrival of replacement they ordered from another location. Curious if Remington had a bad batch and this new in box model will have same defect? If it does I may just keep original model registered to me and hound Remington for re-finished barrell being sent back. Didn't like that all interior parts of Mossberg weren't protected like 870 XCS MM and am concerned with location of safety also.

 

[Big D]

Shotguns have been around and surviving hard use long before Remington started spraying their shotguns with a supposed "protective" coating on the inside. I really do not see any use in a protective coating being put on the inside of a gun....it will wear off after a certain amount of use. If you care that much about it, get some krylon and spray a few coats on the internals. But from my point of view, there is essentially no use for it. And Remington charges WAY too much for their "Marine" finish. I spotted one in a gunshop that had rust all over the barrel.....so much for their "special" $800 dollar finish! As far as the safety is concerned, I belive the Mossberg has the best safety of them all....it allows you to always have your trigger finger in the ready position rather than having to push the safety off the 870 with the trigger finger and then go back.