Has the Remington 870 Reputation for reliability been ruined in this decade???

[Deltaboy1984]

Well I got a old one I got back in 1982 it is a Wing master and I have had zero problems. Now I have seen some Express shotguns that are for sure not up to stuff compared to mine after years of use and abuse in the Delta of Arkansas on the Mississippi Flyway! Remington IMO is going down hill due to Wal-mart and cheap american consumers in the pumpgun dept.

 

[Virginian]

Wal Mart is the absolute proof that the overriding, number one thing in the consumer's mind is price. Second place is so far back you can't even see it. People complain about the service, the out of stocks, the quality, everything, but they keep coming back.

 

[Moon]

I bought an 870 Supermag to replace my dated and banged up Mossberg in 2001. I thought I was moving up the ladder (removable chokes, 3.5" chamber, and it had a finish on it, unlike my thoroughly trashed Mossberg). I got rid of it last year. I just never could get it to run. The gun routinely failed to cycle, and it cost me game. That was unacceptable, and I'm one and done with Remingtons. I'm not saying that they are all bad or anything, but my one experience was negative. And to be honest, it is good to go back to the reliable old Mossberg. The gun has stood the test of time, and in my case, absolute abuse. Sometimes you just have to dance with the girl that brought you, even if she isn't pretty.

 

[oneounceload]

Remington sells the Wingmaster that has a high gloss blued finish and fancy walnut stock but no one buys it because it costs $650. People who are willing to spend that much or more on a shotgun are buying over-unders not pumps. Pumps are not prestige items but utilitarian guns now. Remington probably sells 40 Expresses for every one Wingmaster. Either sell a product for the price people are will to pay or go out of business.

$650 for an O/U???....more like $2500 and up....When a decent quality O/U starts about $2500, and a decent semi starts about $1000, $650 for a quality pump doesn't seem to bad at all, especially to the folks who appreciate a quality made product. Unfortunately, most folks would rather skimp on something and get the cheapest POS they can.......and then complain all over the internet about it.

Good quality, especially American-made, isn't cheap......but if you want cheap, then China and Turkey most certainly fill the bill. Since a lot of folks seem to think that way, Remington, among others, has responded with a price-point specific gun. To meet that price-point, they skimped on anything and everything.........

 

[TheProf]

So...does this mean I made a mistake of trading my Mossy 500 for a Remington 870? Is the Rem 870 still superior to the Mossy 500? (And I just learned that the military uses the Mossberg 500. Which makes me wonder why they did not choose the Remington 870.)

 

[Pizzagunner]

If my Mossberg 590 18.5" cost more than any current market 870, I'd still have bought it.

The idea of "Remmy superiority" is mostly a myth these days that was built upon the merits of the old school built Wingmasters, not the cheapened crap numbered 870 on it somewhere, somehow, and pumped out of the factory for most of the past two decades.

The Mossberg is more thoughtfully designed than is the 870, and I wouldn't own a pump gun without the tang safety and the action release where Mossberg correctly put them.

 

[RandKL]

evidently it's some sort of black oxide finish on abrasive blasted surface. fairly vulnerable to rust.

Yep. According to Remington it's bead blasted white metal that is then chemically darkened. I'm assuming it's akin to cold bluing. Whatever it is, it rusts. And it being bead blasted, the rust is made to be 3d....and removing 3d rust is next to impossible without a full polishing.

rich

 

[556A2]

The idea of "Remmy superiority" is mostly a myth these days that was built upon the merits of the old school built Wingmasters, not the cheapened crap numbered 870 on it somewhere, somehow, and pumped out of the factory for most of the past two decades.

The Mossberg is more thoughtfully designed than is the 870, and I wouldn't own a pump gun without the tang safety and the action release where Mossberg correctly put them.

The first sentence is BS because the Mossberg does not have milled steel receiver. The Remington is superior, but the Mossberg is not a bad shotgun.

The second sentence is BS because its subjective.

 

[Leadhead]

How much does it cost a factory to polish a chamber? All that work to make a gun and someone saves 5 minutes of work by neglecting to inspect and polish chambers......I don't know how any shooter can accept this BS!
Charge me an extra $25 already and give me a gun that works.

 

[ScareyH22A]

I purchased a 20" 870 Express at Big 5 in March. It took 150 rounds to break it in. Until then, I could not extract a dozen or so spent shells because the forearm wouldn't rack back. I had to forcefully pull the forearm and it came back. Upon stripping it down for cleaning, I found that the receiver had some sharp edges that eventually worn down smooth. That's all it is, just a sharp machined edge on the receiver. I'm assuming that all new Express need to be broken in, that's all.

 

[MAX100]

How much does it cost a factory to polish a chamber? All that work to make a gun and someone saves 5 minutes of work by neglecting to inspect and polish chambers......I don't know how any shooter can accept this BS!
Charge me an extra $25 already and give me a gun that works.

The chamber problem is probably because they don't change out their tooling as often as they should. That's the reason why some are OK and have no problems and ones that do were cut with dull worn reamer. They are letting some barrels go through that should have been scrapped or reworked.

Saving on tooling cost and scrap saves the company lots of money.


GC

 

[smithmax]

FWIW, it seems like Mossberg has pretty good customer service. If you are having issues they are pretty willing to help you out.

 

[zombienerd]

I have an 870 Express, straight out of the box broke the ejector after three cycles. Had to send it back to Remington for repair, it took them 2 months to get it back to me.

Since then, however, I have had zero issues with it. over 200 rounds through the gun with no issue. Mixed brands and loads of ammo.

 

[jlv08]

After going thru this thread and reading about how the venerable 870 has faired as of late, I noticed some comments about "cheap Chinese crap".

I will inform you that Remington is part of a group that is bringing in "cheap Chinese crap" and other manufacturers are doing the same like Stoeger.

I took the plunge and bought two "cheap Chinese crap " shotguns and will tell you that they are NOT crap!

I will state that I have owned and repaired quite a few firearms of all makes and living here in Tidewater, Va, where folks hunt deer over hounds, the shotgun is employed 100% of the time.

I've been inside Remingtons, Winchesters,and Mossbergs mainly and most of the time neglect and cleaning issues where the problem.

I've seen the rust bucket Expresses more than I care to say and Mossbergs rattle like a dog passing a peach pit.

I've worked with metals all my life and my NEF pumps, for example, have some very good metal and machining in them. NO PLASTIC!! Real walnut stocks and forearms.

Not bad for "cheap Chinese crap".

MyChicom SKS has also been a great shooter and dead nuts reliable.

When our elected officials sourced out American jobs, they sourced out quality.

Folks overseas know that they can produce good quality for less and this has proven itself in some areas.

Don't take this as a defense of Regimes that suppress human rights.

The people who build "cheap Chinese/Turkish/ Spanish/Japanese/etc Junk" don't even have the right to own weapons like we do and if they make a firearm that I can rely on, say in the case that has been proven by the performance of my SKS and Pardners, I'll buy "em and do so without worrying about surface rust or a forearm that won't cycle due to a stuck shell.

That's my two cents.

 

[Virginian]

We are getting exactly what "we" as a group of buyers ask for. No, it isn't worth $25 to 99.99% of the buyers to have a polished chamber, and a forged extractor, and quality control to check the parts, and/or the final product. And while some less than satisfactory models are getting out there, not enough are coming back to warrant a change. A good looking and/or smooth finish isn't worth anything at the sales counter anymore - all black and plastic is perfect.

 

[ArmedBear]

The second sentence is BS because its subjective.

No, it's not, at least not the tang safety.

The tang safety is superior, ergonomically. It's quicker to flick it off while mounting the gun. One can get one's trigger finger into position while taking the gun off-safe. Putting the gun on-safe can be done without reaching around the gun. The shooter can see whether the gun is on S or F without turning the gun.

Guns that are made with less regard for price point, and quick deployment in the field, i.e. O/U and SxS shotguns, have tang safeties. They could have safeties wherever the shooter wants them. They have tang safeties.

The only reason to go with the trigger guard mounted safety is for an easier modular design. It's there for the benefit of the manufacturer, not the shooter.

Learn to loathe the 870 safety: go bird hunting with Wingmaster shooters, and find out somewhere along a steep, rocky trail that someone keeps his safety off because it's easier to make quick shots on quail that way.

That said, I have an 870 and an 1100, with the safety in question. And I have three shotguns with tang safeties, acquired over some years. Said three are all I've hunted with since I got them.

 

[Pizzagunner]

A "milled steel receiver" ain't all that and a bag of chips when the rest of the shotgun is still a cheapened bird gun masquerading as a fighting shotgun.

At the low price points of everything south of a real deal Wingmaster, you aren't buying an heirloom. If one wants a cheap heirloom an old M37 should suffice and still net one a better shotgun than an 870 Express.

One can still find a "milled steel receiver" AK. The ergos remain crap compared to the "delicate" aluminum and plastic AR.

That's where I see the "debate" between the 870 and the 500/590 has a parallel. Yes ergos are subjective, but a deal breaker they are when they are garbage.

 

[gentleman987]

They have gone down hill for sure. Mine had extraction problems and the slide would lock up. I polished the chamber and it works fine. i would have payed an extra $15 for a gun that didnt need that in the first place.

 

[Leadhead]

We are getting exactly what "we" as a group of buyers ask for. No, it isn't worth $25 to 99.99% of the buyers to have a polished chamber, and a forged extractor, and quality control to check the parts, and/or the final product. And while some less than satisfactory models are getting out there, not enough are coming back to warrant a change. A good looking and/or smooth finish isn't worth anything at the sales counter anymore - all black and plastic is perfect.

Well I guess I agree that if people are still buying them and Remington is "getting away" with it then I guess it's the buyer's fault....but really I don't blame the buyer's for making the decision to cheapen the product.
It reminds me of a recent development in plywood's.....somebody decided that if they shave a 1/16" of everysheet they can make more money! Personally I'd rather pay the extra cost and get a full 1/2" 5/8" 3/4" or whatever....7/16",9/16" and 11/16" plywood is bs.
It's not like carpenters were making the request for thinner materials but I guess if we keep buying them it's somehow are fault?

 

[Virginian]

A tang safety may be superior in your estimation, but that ain't worth 2 cents in my bank. I prefer a trigger finger safety because I can maintain a good grip throughout the motion of taking off the safety. Hows that for ergonomics? Truthfully, I don't think it makes a whit worth of difference. I have used both for 50 years and can't remember a miss because of the safety location.
Actually, the Canadians started the plywood shaving. Goes right along with what the sawmills did to 2x4s ages past.
And yes, as long as people keep buying them and not making Remington make them right, the accountants will keep dictating the "cost saving" methods. I wonder how many get bought and never even fired. The accountants dictate how to do everything now days. Screw the customer, it's all about the shareholders. Pardon me while I puke.
It doesn't mean anything, because I don't need any guns at the moment, but if I was in the market for a cheap pump, and I couldn't find a good used Wingmaster, I'd get an Express. I just greatly prefer the feel and fit of a Remington. It's not a fact based decision, it's pure emotion, but I don't care. If the chamber was rough, I already have a hone. If the MIM extractor breaks, I have a forged one somewhere around here. And if I have a rust problem, I'd spray it with Rustoleum. Then it would all be my fault.
P.S. - If you prefer a Mossberg or a Brownning or a Nova, I am certainly not saying you shouldn't get that. We still have that much freedom even in Obamanation.

 

[JohnBT]

"and they put Winchester out of the shotgun business "

Huh? I was around then too and that's not right, unless you are referring to the Model 12 being dropped in 1959. They still made, and make, shotguns. One of my favorites is the SX-1, another quality product.

John

 

[556A2]

The tang safety is superior, ergonomically.

Ergonomics are subjective also, because I despise tang safeties.

 

[Leadhead]

Virginian, I don't know who started the plywood shaving, but it's BS!
I've only notice it creeping in in the last couple years in Canada.
Is it like that too with American plywood or are you just getting our skimpy sheets?

Sorry for the detour boys.

 

[Neezer]

my Express work just fine

 

[Virginian]

Since I stopped working for Weyerhaeuser I don't keep up with it like I used to brand wise, but whenever I buy plywood I measure it; the stuff I am getting. You'll look at 3/8" A/C and it'll measure okay, and then you look at 7/16" it'll and come up shy a 32nd. I like the latest trend - less product in the same package. Check your weights. WalMart dog food very quietly went from a 44 pound bag to a 40 pound bag. And then they put a smiley face on it when they dropped the price - a whole lot less than 10%. Just one example.