jrmoore7138
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- Oct 6, 2007
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I'd appreciate someone pointing me in the direction to find procedures for breaking-in a new rifle barrel. Thanks.
New Rifle Break-In
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jrmoore7138
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- Joined
- Oct 6, 2007
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Thanks for the help!!
Bartkowski
Member
I only bought a few of my guns new or with under 20 rounds through them, and I did not go through any true break in. My 7600 in 30-06 shoots around .5 .75" groups at 100 yards with 180gr. fusion ammo, and it has about 70 rounds through it. I don't think that you have to go through a real break in process to make your guns accurate so I just shoot them.
MachIVshooter
Member
I've never bought into the "break in" ideology. I just make sure to not overheat them and always clean from the breech end or use a good bore guide.
Of course, I don't really break in engines after building them, either. I just let them get to operating temp and then drive it like I stole it.
Of course, I don't really break in engines after building them, either. I just let them get to operating temp and then drive it like I stole it.
HM2PAC
Member
I took this from the Savage Website FAQ section. I have used it a number of times. Seems to work well.
FAQs: Barrel Break-In Procedure
Q. What is the barrel break-in procedure?
A. Although there may be different schools of thought on barrel break-in, this is what Precision Shooting Magazine recommends:
STEP 1 (repeated 10 times)
* Fire one round
* Push wet patches soaked with a powder solvent through the bore
* Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
* Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
* Push wet patches soaked with a copper solvent through the bore
* Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
* Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
* Push a patch with 2 drops of oil through the bore
STEP 2 (repeated 5 times)
* Fire a 3 shot group
* Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1 after each group
STEP 3 (repeat 5 times)
* Fire a 5 shot group
* Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1
They recommend the use of a patch with 2 drops of oil after the cleaning so that you are not shooting with a dry bore. It is also advisable to use a powder solvent and copper solvent from the same manufacturer to be sure they are chemically compatible.
FAQs: Barrel Break-In Procedure
Q. What is the barrel break-in procedure?
A. Although there may be different schools of thought on barrel break-in, this is what Precision Shooting Magazine recommends:
STEP 1 (repeated 10 times)
* Fire one round
* Push wet patches soaked with a powder solvent through the bore
* Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
* Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
* Push wet patches soaked with a copper solvent through the bore
* Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
* Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
* Push a patch with 2 drops of oil through the bore
STEP 2 (repeated 5 times)
* Fire a 3 shot group
* Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1 after each group
STEP 3 (repeat 5 times)
* Fire a 5 shot group
* Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1
They recommend the use of a patch with 2 drops of oil after the cleaning so that you are not shooting with a dry bore. It is also advisable to use a powder solvent and copper solvent from the same manufacturer to be sure they are chemically compatible.
General Geoff
Member
I would imagine that any so-called break in would be useless; as metal is metal, and a bullet being fired down the barrel will be just as effective at "finishing" the bore as some ludicrous patching/brass brush procedure.
RTFM
member
General Geoff said:
The great debate.
You do what you believe is right I'll do what I think is right.
But by doing it how is it going to hurt the barrel?
Sylvan-Forge
Member
I used to believe in this (and bore paste) but after reading Mr. McMillan's comments, I'm rethinking this a bit.
I remember seeing pictures of barrel steel on the microscopic level of what I presume to be an unlapped barrel. It looked sorta like
^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^
It made sense to me at the time that a bullet passing by at 1000f/s or more would leave some of itself imbedded in these valleys and roll the top of the peaks over, being sealed up more as firing progressed. In the pic it looked something like a rip-curl wave as viewed from the side.. Later, after the peak had been mushed over, covering the valley, it looked like a cut away view of a Hot-Pocket snack.
In the essay that accompanied the pictures, it was described that these pockets would be filled with fouling and cleaning chemical residue (evil Hot-Pocket) being the result of not undertaking barrel seasoning. Not seasoning would bring doom upon the barrel..
Rapid fouling would ensue, shortening the life and accuracy of the barrel (perhaps the shooter too..oh nooo!).
The one thing that didn't enter my mental picture at the time was twist.
I'd think that while passing by this peak and starting to roll it over, it would also be getting shear force applied and tearing at the top of the peak.
No Evil Hot-Pocket. Maybe something that looks like stippling or checkering (microscopically of course).
Maybe a real-life scientist type will do a comprehensive experiment and put the GREAT DEBATE to rest.
In the interim, I think I'm going to tone down my "seasoning" procedure a bit (1shot/season x3, 3shot/season x3, 5shot/season x3, after that, go with the opposing wisdom and 'just shoot the darn thing')
The Outers Foul-Out system would be cool for seasoning. I guess it would take a good while though.
Maybe it would make life simpler to just get lapped barrels..
Heck, I dunno
I remember seeing pictures of barrel steel on the microscopic level of what I presume to be an unlapped barrel. It looked sorta like
^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^
It made sense to me at the time that a bullet passing by at 1000f/s or more would leave some of itself imbedded in these valleys and roll the top of the peaks over, being sealed up more as firing progressed. In the pic it looked something like a rip-curl wave as viewed from the side.. Later, after the peak had been mushed over, covering the valley, it looked like a cut away view of a Hot-Pocket snack.
In the essay that accompanied the pictures, it was described that these pockets would be filled with fouling and cleaning chemical residue (evil Hot-Pocket) being the result of not undertaking barrel seasoning. Not seasoning would bring doom upon the barrel..
Rapid fouling would ensue, shortening the life and accuracy of the barrel (perhaps the shooter too..oh nooo!).
The one thing that didn't enter my mental picture at the time was twist.
I'd think that while passing by this peak and starting to roll it over, it would also be getting shear force applied and tearing at the top of the peak.
No Evil Hot-Pocket. Maybe something that looks like stippling or checkering (microscopically of course).
Maybe a real-life scientist type will do a comprehensive experiment and put the GREAT DEBATE to rest.
In the interim, I think I'm going to tone down my "seasoning" procedure a bit (1shot/season x3, 3shot/season x3, 5shot/season x3, after that, go with the opposing wisdom and 'just shoot the darn thing')
The Outers Foul-Out system would be cool for seasoning. I guess it would take a good while though.
Maybe it would make life simpler to just get lapped barrels..
Heck, I dunno
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I had right at fifty years of centerfire shooting before I ever heard of barrel break-in, around 1999.
I guess most any metallurgist would agree with me that soft metal can burnish harder metal. Just shooting copper jacketed bullets through a steel barrel will smooth whatever surface roughness got left from the rifling process.
Anyhow, not knowing any better, I'd just get sighted in and do some load testing and then go home and clean the gun. Mostly, to protect against rust.
Since I didn't know about all that break-in stuff, I just enjoyed the sub-MOA groups I usually could get.
I did notice some dgradation in group size in a couple of pet rifles. My '06, after around some 4,000 rounds, and my .243 after maybe a thousand. So, Hoppes with copper remover. Et voila! Back to sub-MOA! 100 yard target: Three-shot, half-inch from the '06, three behind a dime from the .243.
Probably good enough...
Art
I guess most any metallurgist would agree with me that soft metal can burnish harder metal. Just shooting copper jacketed bullets through a steel barrel will smooth whatever surface roughness got left from the rifling process.
Anyhow, not knowing any better, I'd just get sighted in and do some load testing and then go home and clean the gun. Mostly, to protect against rust.
Since I didn't know about all that break-in stuff, I just enjoyed the sub-MOA groups I usually could get.
I did notice some dgradation in group size in a couple of pet rifles. My '06, after around some 4,000 rounds, and my .243 after maybe a thousand. So, Hoppes with copper remover. Et voila! Back to sub-MOA! 100 yard target: Three-shot, half-inch from the '06, three behind a dime from the .243.
Probably good enough...
Art
Sylvan-Forge
Member
And they say ignorance is bliss! Indeed!
Well, Mr. Eatman, your 59 some years of CF rifle experience is good enough for me.
Well, Mr. Eatman, your 59 some years of CF rifle experience is good enough for me.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Aw, it was my father and uncle's fault. I'd wounded a jackrabbit with my .22, and he squealed and kicked. They figured I needed something better, and there was this old DCM Enfield 1917 lying around. My uncle didn't worry about child labor laws, and got me to reloading for the both of us. That was back around 1950, and I've been pretty much useless to society ever since.
Been fun, though.
Art
Been fun, though.
Art
Smokey Joe
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Messages
- 2,617
The best answer is...
"It depends."
The only really pristine rifle I've obtained since learning about bbl breakin, I subjected to the "full treatment." (Shoot once, clean, repeat 10x, etc, etc.) Took most of an afternoon.
That rifle displays almost benchrest gun accuracy, but since it's a .300 WSM I don't use it for that, as the bbl heats up with 3-4 shots, and has to be let to cool down. Fun to shoot a relatively big rifle that accurately, though!
OTOH, I also have a heavy-bbl honker of a .243 that I bought used, so of course know nothing about the original breakin. That rifle I just started shooting. Have taken second place in an informal benchrest match with it (and the trigger, not the bbl, kept me from having a chance at 1st!) That rifle remains the most accurate I own; no breakin at all.
And like all the other "experienced" riflemen, there have been any number of rifles passed through my hands prior to breaking-in being common knowledge. Some of those shot really well. Some did not.
Have yet to make up my own mind as to whether a break-in procedure has a positive effect on a bbl, and if so, when. There is at least one custom bbl maker in my area who says under no curcumstances are his bbls to be broken-in; they are already lapped smoother than smooth, and breaking them in would simply entail unnecessary wear & tear from the cleaning rod.
"It depends."
The only really pristine rifle I've obtained since learning about bbl breakin, I subjected to the "full treatment." (Shoot once, clean, repeat 10x, etc, etc.) Took most of an afternoon.
That rifle displays almost benchrest gun accuracy, but since it's a .300 WSM I don't use it for that, as the bbl heats up with 3-4 shots, and has to be let to cool down. Fun to shoot a relatively big rifle that accurately, though!
OTOH, I also have a heavy-bbl honker of a .243 that I bought used, so of course know nothing about the original breakin. That rifle I just started shooting. Have taken second place in an informal benchrest match with it (and the trigger, not the bbl, kept me from having a chance at 1st!) That rifle remains the most accurate I own; no breakin at all.
And like all the other "experienced" riflemen, there have been any number of rifles passed through my hands prior to breaking-in being common knowledge. Some of those shot really well. Some did not.
Have yet to make up my own mind as to whether a break-in procedure has a positive effect on a bbl, and if so, when. There is at least one custom bbl maker in my area who says under no curcumstances are his bbls to be broken-in; they are already lapped smoother than smooth, and breaking them in would simply entail unnecessary wear & tear from the cleaning rod.
USSR
Member
Ah, our monthly "break in" thread.
Don
Don
I'll admit that I don't have any special knowledge about this subject, but from what I've read virtually all benchrest competitors do follow some form of barrel break in procedure. Now, they also do things like individually polishing the brass they use for reloads and measure the exact length of their chambers, so I think it's fair to say that they go over and above anything that is practical or necessary for a recreational shooter or hunter, but if there was nothing at all to barrel break in, I don't think those guys would all do it.
Ignition Override
Member
As a bit of a beginner, when a (used) Ruger Mini 14 barrel heats up quickly (using Remington and Wolf ammo), should you stop shooting after about 60 rounds, or will further shooting/heating cause any long-term problems or 'warping' anywhere?
USSR
Member
I_O,
Unfortunately, the "long-term problems" with the Mini 14 began the day it left the factory.
Don
Unfortunately, the "long-term problems" with the Mini 14 began the day it left the factory.
Don
Dad got me a Win Mod 70 Featherweight 30-06 in 1963 when I finished high school. I knew nothing about "break in" We just shot it, I found an old fashioned sporting goods store that had a reloading press and they taught me the basics of reloading. I soon bought my own equipment and shot it a lot
even getting into casting first using a small pot and charcoal grill for heat source. After shooting with cast I would most likely shoot a couple of old military AP rounds through thinking it would get any lead out. It seemed to work as I never in all these years have detected any buildup and can go from cast to jacketed without any problems.
I had learned how to shoot and could get less than moa out of that rifle with several different loads, including my cast at the time. My eyes and the fact that I do not shoot as much now do not let me achieve that level of accuracy now.
even getting into casting first using a small pot and charcoal grill for heat source. After shooting with cast I would most likely shoot a couple of old military AP rounds through thinking it would get any lead out. It seemed to work as I never in all these years have detected any buildup and can go from cast to jacketed without any problems.
I had learned how to shoot and could get less than moa out of that rifle with several different loads, including my cast at the time. My eyes and the fact that I do not shoot as much now do not let me achieve that level of accuracy now.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
IO, the Mini won't be hurt by heating and the attendant large groups. After cooling down, it goes right back to the starting point for the first shot or three from a cold barrel. The deal with the Mini is not so much the number of rounds, but the interval between shots. That's why they work quite well for hunting but not for bangity-bangity-bangity rapid fire.
Example: Some nearly-thirty years ago, there was a fantastic population explosion of jackrabbits in northern Nevada and SW Idaho. A buddy of mine and I went out from Winnemucca, parked the truck over a marshy area, and shot jackrabbits for about two hours. We killed maybe fifty each; maybe a few more. But one shot every minute or two never affected our ability to make one-shot kills.
Art
Example: Some nearly-thirty years ago, there was a fantastic population explosion of jackrabbits in northern Nevada and SW Idaho. A buddy of mine and I went out from Winnemucca, parked the truck over a marshy area, and shot jackrabbits for about two hours. We killed maybe fifty each; maybe a few more. But one shot every minute or two never affected our ability to make one-shot kills.
Art
whiskeytangofoxtrot
Member
I clean a new rifle up, polish up the barrel, and shoot it. I've done the break-in procedure in one bolt gun, and the other I did not, needless to say they both shoot the same types of groups.
Grizzly Adams
Member
The best way to break in a new barrel is to fire about twent to thirty rounds through it as fast as possible and then stick the barrel in a barrel of water!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
My gut feeling is most folks could do more harm with a cleaning rod by running it back & forth 28 times after every shot!
My break-in procedure is to go shoot 3-shot groups while sighting in the new scope.
Then go home and clean the bore throughly, including copper solvent if necessary.
Then start working up handloads and cleaning as necessary, but only if copper fouling rears it's ugly head.
As long as you don't over-heat the barrel, shooting it is breaking it in just fine.
rcmodel
My break-in procedure is to go shoot 3-shot groups while sighting in the new scope.
Then go home and clean the bore throughly, including copper solvent if necessary.
Then start working up handloads and cleaning as necessary, but only if copper fouling rears it's ugly head.
As long as you don't over-heat the barrel, shooting it is breaking it in just fine.
rcmodel
Agreed. Poor technique can ruin the barrel. And, for a used barrel, proper cleaning may improve groups.
Considering my "new" rifle was apparently test-fired at the factory under who-knows-what conditions, I try not to worry about it. Besides, most of my rifles are probably more accurate than me anyway (lousy bulk ammo not withstanding).
This is just another one of the many things that may contribute to accuracy. At one point or another, I've heard the following as being contributors to accuracy:
-Type of rifling
-Crown
-Cleanliness
-Trueness of the barrel
-Twist
-Ammo (**this is a biggie)
-Chamber
-Barrel material
-Lined/non-lined barrel
-Trigger
-Length of action
-Type of action
-Bedding/floating
-The shooter
Far too much for me to worry about. However, I do not make my living with my rifles as either a LEO, solider, marine, writer, or engineer.
I shoot for fun. When shooting becomes not fun, I don't want to shoot. And if I don't want to shoot, then I have some expensive paper weights, an angry wife, and a lighter bank account with nothing to show for it.
What will make shooting not fun for me? Meticulously cleaning the barrel after every shot. My 4 MOA fingers and 2 MOA ammo won't notice the difference anyway.
My guess is there is a good chance Gale McMillan knew more about barrels than the combined knowledge of this board so, for myself I feel safe following his advice. Which is what I do, and the rest of ya's can do what pleases you too. That way everyone stays happy right?
Some Gale wrote on the subject if anyone's interested
http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html
Some Gale wrote on the subject if anyone's interested
http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html
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