New Rifle Cartridge -- .204 Ruger

Status
Not open for further replies.
-Okay wait a minute. The .17HRM is a good deal, for two reasons: the jacketed bullets shoot more accurate than plain lead and the spitzer bullets feed more reliably in semiautos.
. . . .
-though the ammo does still cost too much.... :)/
~~~~~~~~~
This new Ruger business I have no use for however.
I am poor, so for center-fire varminting it's very-probably going to be .223 for me.
Cheap ammo=wins.
~
 
I'm thinking of coming out with my own "New" cartridge...

The 9876543210 SpittleSplatz...

The SpittleSplatz is the first rifle capable of trans-light velocities. That means if you miss, that's OK, because the SpittleSplatz can actually reverse time, giving you a second chance at your target.

Energy at the muzzle is an impressive 8x10(43) foot pounds, making the SpittleSplatz fully capable of taking any thing in this, or any other, world. The SpittleSplatz is also amazingly gentle on barrels, normally only sending the chunks and pieces a few hundred meters.

For all of its raw powder, though, the SpittleSplatz has surprisingly little recoil, thanks to our new groundbreaking "Dimensional Recoil Arrester" system. In use, the DRA actually deflects felt recoil into another dimension! The result is faster follow up shots, with the added benefit of your fillings staying in your teeth, and your teeth in your skull.
 
Put me down for one will ya Mike ....... be fun at the next shoot!

lol.gif
 
I'd be interested in seeing how fast that light bullet sheds energy.

John
(That was great, El Tejon.)
 
I am merely a conduit through which information flows.

It is interesting to see the folks loudly proclaim that they are just too cool for this room, by offering off-target comments.

It appears that at least some of the posters here didn't even bother to read the release I posted the link to.

No, it does not burn up barrels. Less powder, less barrel errosion.

I don't have a stake in this at all, and don't care. I do, however, find the rapid, rabid, and negative comments interesting.

Is there a need for this cartridge? Of course not. Then again, need has nothing to do with our choices of rifles and cartridges. Thanks goodness.

Will a varmint cartridge with velocity near the Swift, with much less recoil, and with much longer barrel life be something to interest some varminters? I don't know.

I'm just glad the companies are still in there pitching.
 
Guntalk said:
'I'm just glad the companies are still in there pitching'


Mmmmm. I agree. It's nice to see the companies persuing innovation.

But don't we already have alot of round wheels? Do we really need to keep inventing rounder ones?

And I'll be the first to say that I'm far from an expert on internal ballistics and/or metallurgy, but I just don't see how they can achieve the stated velocities without barrel erosion; the two just go hand in hand.

Or am I missing something here?
 
"I am merely a conduit through which information flows."

Ok, Mr. Gresham, right there it appears that you think we're attacking YOU, instead of the concept.

That would be a great big no.

I read the release, and am still overwhelmed at how underwhelmed I am.

It wouldn't matter where the information came from. I'd still be underwhelmed.

Yes I, too am glad that the companies are still pitching. When they come out with something truly interesting, I'll be there.

I do have to ask, though...

"No, it does not burn up barrels. Less powder, less barrel errosion."

Is that your personal hands-on observation, or is that what Ruger's claiming? Judging by how your statement is worded, that's Ruger's claim. You haven't had a chance to work with cartridge yet (I doubt that anyone has yet), so pardon me if my "markingcrapometer" starts sounding...
 
Hi, Mike:

Nope, I didn't think anyone was attacking me. I did find the immediate regative reactions interesting though. It was obvious that some did not read the release.

There are, of course, those who just have to put down everything new if only to make them look cool on the message boards. Such is life.

I have found Hornady's info to be pretty reliable. It is my understanding that burning less powder (in this case, a LOT less powder) would contribute to less barrel wear, but since I haven't done the test, I can't say if it will or won't. They may be using the high intensity powders they use in the Light Magnum rounds. That might change the picture.

As I said, I'm just relaying the news from the show.

Some new scopes here, new binocs, new pistols, new Tikka rifles, new Mauser rifles coming from Serbia, etc.

I can't really find any holes in the lineup of cartridges now available. Still, new stuff sells guns. It's new stuff that allows us to give ourselves permisson to get another gun (at least, in some cases).

Then again, Sig introduced a 1911 pistol. Sigh.

Hodgdon bought IMR powders.

Some big shakeups at S&W personell. Still in the works. Remington has furloughed 900 employees without pay for a month.

There probably is 50 to 100 percent excess capacity in firearm manfacturing. I sense a slow shakeout in the works, but it could take a decade.

Safe prediction, 'cause in 10 years, no one will remember it!!! <grin>
 
A problem Tom I think, is the dichotomy between, on the one hand ''They (the companies) are still pitching'' .... and the other which is .... ''How many diameters of wheel do we need''!:)

I, for one ... am ''over-calibered'' .. certainly when it comes to reloading! So ... I guess there is a temptation to approach this with a smigeon of cynicism ... simply because, with what we already have .. we can load up, load down ... up bullet weights, reduce bullet weights .... and so on. Seeming to give pretty much about as much choice as average shootist might need.

I'll be honest tho ... and trying to keep an open mind ..... I am interested in about any new caliber, variant ... up to a point.... it sparks curiosity but ... the ''practical self'' then comes along and reminds me just how many ''variants'' we have already, how many have fallen by the wayside and just how much willingness the shooting fraternity has or may have, to adopt ''yet another''.

That said ... it is good you should bring this to our attention ... how else would we manage to stay in touch .. for that alone thanks are due. The downside of course is and always will be ... a tendency for some derision to creep in from some sources ..... almost inevitable.

That tho cannot detract from the pure ''newsworthyness'' of the subject matter.
 
The buying habits of the gun folks is an interesting study.

This evening, I'm in the bar with the editor of a major gun mag (none that I write for) and two CEO's of gun/ammo companies.

One story was funny. The gun company brought out a lightweight .357 magnum snub nose revolver, so they dropped their .38 Special snub nose.

After all, you can shoot the .38 Special in the .357, right?

Oh no! The customers didn't want a .357 Magnum with all that recoil. They wanted a .38 Special, by God!

So, the company brought back the .38 Special model, and sold a bunch! No amount of talking could convince the public that they could shoot .38 Special ammo in a .357 Magnum.

It is well to remember that the majority of the gun buying public isn't as savvy as the folks on THR.
 
I remember the same predictions back in the 1970s and 1980s.

S&W, even before the Agreement was having periodic furloughs. So were other manufacturers.

That was happening back in the 1920s and 1930s and earlier, as well, which is why one of the reasons why Winchester got into the hardware business, why Smith & Wesson made its own line of automatic closing toilet flush valves (NOT a joke), and why most companies have branched far outside of the firearms business as either primary or secondary business associations.

Ruger? Their precision investment casting business dwarfs the gun end of things.

S&W? Mountain bikes and HOT SAUCE? :rolleyes:

The firearms business has always been, and always will be, in a state of flux as it, and the environment, changes.

I remember back in the 1970s when it was seriously predicted that most, if not all, American firearms manufacturers would cease to conduct manufacturing operations in the US within 25 years. Those were the days of the Japanese making firearms for just about everyone.

I'm sure that people were saying the same thing in the 1950s and early 1960s when the surplus market was making lots of industry people very unhappy.

The firearms business will adapt. We've seen that adaptation with the introduction of CNC machinery that was touted as the "cure" to all of the QC problems that came about as the companies adapted to changing economic conditions from the 1950s through the 1970s.

The face of the firearms industry may well very VERY different 10 or 15 years from now. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

The rule of business has always been adapt or die.

And it will always continue to be so.
 
Varminting cartridge they say???

===========> .22lr & .223 <===========

What more do you need?

I guess if you have money to burn on new rifles and expensive new ammo the .204 Ruger is right up your alley.
 
Sounds interesting to me. I might give it a look.

I always yawn when I read posts that add absolutely nothing to the thread.
 
Aw, you guys! Don't be so cynical.

Guilty as charged when it comes to Ruger. The Gold Label remains a distant myth, their much hyped single-barrel trap gun only saw 200 units or so and whatever did happen to the XGI?

A .20 caliber might sound like a good idea until you need bullets. I suppose the .17 caliber cleaning equipment would work.

What amuses me however in the flood of the latest and greatest new cartridges to hit the market is why I would want any of them when the .223, 6.5x55, .30-06, .375 all seem to get the job done. Why have a dozen run-of-the-mill rifles in strange and wonderful calibers when for the same price you can have four top grade firearms?

Paul
 
"Why have a dozen run-of-the-mill rifles in strange and wonderful calibers when for the same price you can have four top grade firearms?"

Because we want to. And so far, we don't have to justify that to anyone.
 
This thread has more posts diverging in more directions than any other thread I've read, in recent memory, especially when one considers how narrow the original topic of Guntalk's original post was:

A new round.


Am I really excited? Not very. Interested? Sure. Why not? If we stuck to what was tried and true, we'd never have moved from flintlocks to percussion muzzleloaders. (After all, you can depend on a flintlock. A flintlock won't let you down!)

Some of this stuff is hit and miss, if you'll pardon the expression. I'm mildly surprised that the .17 rimfire is such a big splash. Tickled that it is. What harm in having more types and styles?

I've got a nice .22 LR, and a few months ago picked up a .22 Hornet, which basically has my varmint range filled, right? I suppose I could get a 6MM and a .220 Swift to round things out. But I like the elegance of the low end on a smaller varmint. The .20 caliber offers new opportunities in sectional density for a given weight and velocity.

Am I going to buy one? Dunno. Until this year, I never thought I'd ever be interested in a Hornet, 'til I learned how efficiently they burned powder to give good punch for minimal noise. I'll have to see how barrel erosion goes, what the bullet is capable of, what the energy drop off looks like... etc, etc. In other words, I'll let the gun writers test it on the manufacturer's dime, and make my decisions on that, rather than on an initial report of a press release. :)
 
I think Ruger just wants their name on a caliber, sort of like Glock and the ".45 Glock Auto Pistol" caliber.
Nope. They've already got the .480 Ruger pistol cartridge.

Problems:

One's already been mentioned, the bullets are going to be scarce for a long time.

For those who buy, you're going to need some new cleaning equipment. And it's not going to be easy to find. When was the last time you saw .20 caliber jags, bore brushes or cleaning rods for sale?

Why use the .222 as the basis for this? The .222 and .223 are so close in every respect that it's hard for me to imagine why someone would pick the more rare of the two cartridges (by a LONG shot) on which to base a new caliber. Sort of like if Remington had decided to base the .260 Remington on a shortened 6.5x55 Swedish case instead of of a shortened .308 Win case.
 
As far as cleaning goes, .20 is a common airgun caliber. If those jags and brushes would screw into any typical firearm cleaning rod I don't know.
---
Airgun cleaning rods are often different, in that they are unsheathed steel 1-piece, that use a plastic muzzle bushing and brass jags that are fatter than the rod.
~
 
Mr. Gresham....Questions from the audience, here....

What is the bullet diameter of the .204 Ruger? Is the bullet interchangeable with the 5.45x39 bullet? If so, will this lead to the legitimization of the 5.45x39 in American rifles (so long overdue, IMHO)?

If the gun companies are looking for some good "proprietary" rounds to legitimize, why not the 5.45x39 and the .41 Special? I'd be the first on the block to get one of their .41 snubbies if I could get some ".41 Taurus Special" ammo (ballistics similar to .40S&W 180gr. loads). Or how about a "6.5x45mm Bushmaster" for AR-15's?

I don't mind the gun/ammo companies coming up with new items, but I'd like to see them legitimize the existing wildcats first...:cool:
 
Actually, that's pretty darn good. The 69 g Sierra MatchKing BTHP heavy .224 bullet has a S.D. of .194. A 40g BlitzKing Hornet bullet has a S.D. of .114.
Releasing a new round with an SD of .192 and a velocity of over 4200 fps is actually kind of interesting. Wonder what the BC of the bullets will be, and how they'll be constructed?


Seems like the Ruger article was telling us what the BC was, .192 and didn't mention the sectional density.

If the BC truely is .192 the little bullet is probably going to shed a surprising amount of it's velocity inside of 300 yards. I don't think it will compare all that well to the more favored high vel. 22s at the longer varminting distances, say compared to .224 bullets like 75-80grns from a 22-250.

The little 20 might be fun for distances out to 300 yards but who else here thinks that it's gonna be similarly limited like the little 17s? Perfect no wind situations and the thing will probably be lots of fun.


I'm with whoever stated, ""Why have a dozen run-of-the-mill rifles in strange and wonderful calibers when for the same price you can have four top grade firearms?"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top