New Rifle/SU-16 Questions

[heypete]

Greetings all. I'm the proud owner of a Kel-Tec SU-16B rifle here in California. Since I picked it up today, I have disassembled it to the furthest extent possible without touching the trigger group, wiped everything clean, lightly oiled appropriate parts, and reassembled it. It function-checks just fine. Before shooting it, I had the following questions.

1) Other than accepting AR-15 magazines and the AR-15 front sight post, does it have anything else interchangeable with the AR-15 platform? I know it uses an AR "style" bolt, but the rear of the bolt seems to be very different than the bolt in the M16/M4 I carried in the army.

2) Is there a recommended break-in procedure that I should follow? I have A-Merc .223 and XM193 5.56mm NATO ammo. Other than my Ruger 10/22, this is the first "new" rifle I've bought -- all the other stuff has been C&R or used.

3) The manual did not give instructions for cleaning/lubricating, other than "don't use much". Is there anything in particular that I should make sure is extra clean, remains dry, remains lightly oiled, etc.?

4) What do you recommend in terms of optical sighting devices? I plan to zero the iron sights for 100 yards (anyone have the Army simulated 300yd targets that one zeros at 25yds?) and am looking at getting a 1-4x optical sighting device for the picatinny rail on top. Possibly red-dot, holo, light-pipe, or other suitable sight that will allow me to fire with both eyes open. Budget is moderate, but not extensive.

5) The standard mags don't drop free when the release button is depressed; I've not tested this with USGI mags. Is there some way to gently sand the zytel receiver to smooth out the mag well and allow the mags to drop free?

6) Any other suggestions, comments, or resources that you know of in relation to the SU-16?

Cheers!

 

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Congrats on your purchase!

I've been debating the purchase of an SU16CA.

1) You're correct about the bolts.

2) I've personally never "broken" a rifle in other than a good cleaning prior to using it.

3) I'll leave this for someone more qualified to post about the SU16.

4) My personal preference would be an Aimpoint ML2/M2 or their new ML3/M3. An EOTech 512-series would be great as well.

5) IF it's the Kel-Tec magazines that are the culprit, I'd rather sand those. However, if the USGIs don't drop free, then I'd do as you suggested.

6) KTOG
KT Range

Someone more experienced with the SU will be in shortly!

-Jim

 

[PrudentGT]

Okay, been meaning to post my SU16 experiences for a while now. I have a pretty blurry picture of a 100 yd target, too, if anyone knows of a good place to temporarily store pictures online.

My experience was pretty bad at first. Kept failing to extract with SA battle pack stuff and Win white box. *However* after a few hundred rounds and a good, thorough cleaning it cycles like a champ. Went through several hundred rounds a few weeks ago using IMI 55gr stuff (I was digging the whole bipod thing, only guy on the range lying *under* the shooting benches that day). No failures of any kind, and once I got a feel for the sights at that range (A model w/ dayglo sights) I was grouping pretty well. In a perfect world I'd have a Sig PE90, but this *is* kali, so any mag fed .223 semi-auto is a welcome addition (plus I don't feel too bad about using it as a beater, it was only $500 or so. Eventually I'll have to order a couple cases of cheap russian fodder -- muwahahaha).

 

[Sactown]

I have a SU16CA. It ran perfectly the first time with Sellior and Bellot and SA surplus. No problems at all and good accuracy. My CA game with a threaded barrel that I added a Levang Linear compensator to. I also replaced the folding bipod with the Delta forend. Mine's topped with a Eotech. I got very good groups off the bench. When i clean it I just take it down like the instructions say. I made sure to lube the bolt. Mine's run like a champ. Not quite an AR, but that's what I'm left with in Kali. I'll be trying some of that polymer cased Natec pretty soon. $2.99 a box of 20. We'll see how it works out.

 

[larryw]

Make sure to take apart the recoil spring assembly thingy and clean it well; clean inside the 'tube', I use a nylon shotgun bore brush.

Grab an AR-15 chamber brush and a cheap aluminum pistol cleaning rod. Bend the rod at 90*near the end, thread on the brush and you can use that to clean the chamber and locking lugs from the ejection port.

Break in? Run a mag or two through it. Break it down and look for odd wear points. If all is looking good, put it back together and shoot up your ammo.

Enjoy, they're great fun!

 

[heypete]

Okay, been meaning to post my SU16 experiences for a while now. I have a pretty blurry picture of a 100 yd target, too, if anyone knows of a good place to temporarily store pictures online.

PhotoBucket.com is great, but TinyPic.com doesn't even require registration -- just upload and get a link. Not the best for pics you must archive forever, but it's great for message boards and whatnot.

Thanks to all for your assistance, I will definitely enjoy this rifle.

 

[Dionysusigma]

heypete: I know it uses an AR "style" bolt, but the rear of the bolt seems to be very different than the bolt in the M16/M4 I carried in the army.

That's because the SU-16 series are based off the AR-18 platform instead of the AR-15.

First, the original patent schematic of the AR-18 (many thanks to Max Popenker and http://world.guns.ru , without whom I would be almost completely ignorant ):

Second, the cross-section of the SU-16A (from Kel-Tec's website):

Hope this helps

 

[heypete]

First Impressions

Tonight I took my brand-new SU-16B to the range. The only work I did on it was cleaning and lightly oiling appropriate parts (the manual doesn't specify exact parts to oil, so I used common sense, oiled moving parts, but kept the gas system clean).

It shot like a charm. Using iron sights at 100yds, I was getting dinner-plate sized groups. I have no doubt the gun would be more accurate, but I wasn't expecting pinpoint accuracy at 100yds with iron sights. A scope, maybe, but not iron. Adjusting the front sight is easy, as it's identical to an AR-15. Unfortunately, the sight post was depressed all the way, so pushing the button with the tip of a bullet didn't work right. After much wrangling with a Leatherman and a pen, I asked around and another shooter had an AR-15 front sight adjusting too. Amazing thing, I should probably get one. Once adjusted, it held a zero.

Shooting XM193 55gr FMJ resulted in a substantial fireball out of the front of the 16" barrel. If this is an issue to some, I suggest getting the SU-16CA and putting a flash suppressor on the threaded barrel; the B model doesn't have that capability. Trigger pull was crisp and clean with little creep, and broke evenly every time. Shooting "American Ammunition" (A-Merc) resulted in similar accuracy to the XM193, but with a much smaller fireball. Unfortunately, several malfunctions occurred with the A-Merc: 1) FTE happened when the brass struck the brass catcher I was using, which was probably the fault of the catcher not the gun or ammo, 2) several primers were pushed slightly out of the back of the casing resulting in 3) one primer came completely unseated and disappeared, the same round also got stuck in the chamber and required a rod to tap it out.

The rifle handled just fine with repeated rapid-fire strings. Groups didn't drop or open up as the barrel got hot, though the foregrip got mildly uncomfortably hot to hold. During the 5 minute target-change period after every 15 minute firing period, the rifle cooled adequately, and the grip became cool to the touch. Note: If engaged in lengthy, rapid-fire firefights with an SU-16B, it may behoove you to wear leather-palmed gloves.

A small "ouchie" occured when I slammed a magazine home, pinching a bit of skin on my index finger between the magazine and the well. Left a nifty little mark. Once I dig all the pre-ban 30-round AR mags out of my basement where they've been sitting for years waiting for a non-AR rifle that would accept them (I couldn't afford an AR before the California ban, so I bought a bunch of mags), this shouldn't be an issue anymore.

In conclusion: I'm quite satisfied with the SU-16B. It has many of the positives of the AR-15, including a top-mounted picatinny rail for optical sighting devices, AR-style bolt, accepts AR mags which are cheap and plentiful, and has an AR-style front sight post, while being a pound or two lighter, folds into a compact package for storage or transport, and doesn't count as an EBR* in GFW* states like California.

* Evil Black Rifle and Gun Fearing Weenie, respectively.

 

[PrudentGT]

'ouchie,' gotta add that one to the *OGCL

Good report tho.

*official gun culture lexicon

 

[heypete]

I say "ouchie" only because the words that came out of my mouth were much more like than anything else. Definitely not suitable for printing.

On a totally different note, there's a surprisingly large number of nerve endings on the soft flesh on the side of one's finger. Just FYI.