New Ruger .338 RCM

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Photobucket pics seem to show up pretty well. That would be my best recommendation...OK, it's the only way I know how to post pics on these sites...:rolleyes:.

Dennis
 
Will check that out when I get a chance. At any rate, it was a very good bear -- my best to date. Squared just a tad under 7 feet. Have no clue on the weight, but I've shot a number of 300 lb. hogs, and it was way north of that mark. Needless to say, I was very happy with the outcome -- especially after hunting hard for 5 days only to succeed in the last hour of the last day. Certainly makes for a memorable hunt and good story.:D
 
New Bear with 338 RCM

OK, trying to see if I can upload a photo here... fingers crossed.

Kentucky_Windage
 
Sorry about the multiple stabs at it... first time uploading a photo here. Anyway, there's my first critter of any kind with the 338 RCM, taken 4/29 on Vancouver Island. Bear squared just under 7 ft. One shot, 180 yards, double lung through-and-through with 225 grain SST. Bear tumbled 30 yards down a steep slope but was lights out. I was very pleased with caliber/bullet performance -- no to mention the bear. Beautiful hide, will make a beautiful rug.
 
Nice bear; nice rifle; nice job.

I'm not as SST fan, but that may be mostly because I just don't like the look of plastic points...:D.

Dennis
 
I was a bit skeptical about them, too, and didn't understand why they didn't just load the Interbonds -- until I watched Mike Fyfer smoke a ton of big African plains game with the SSTs on TV -- and then tested them myself. In reality, they hold up very well because they combine the internal jacket belt of the Hornady Interlock with a heavier-than-usual jacket. The through-and-through shot on my big bear speaks volumes...
 
Yep...if they'd just dump the plastic points I'd try some...:rolleyes:.

In truth -- I shot the big boar with a 200-gr Interlock, lead point and all, at 2750 fps and the bullet went in one side and out the other of the pig -- through the spine and the shoulder. Pig fell over dead instantly, so I can't imagine any improvement...:D.

Dennis
 
The only improvement would be a small improvement in the ballistic coefficient -- plus the performance boost of the factory-loaded stuff using Hornady's magic pixie dust. But dead, as they say, is dead. :D

I'll be looking to shoot another hog myself soon, on the 19th-20th, using another 338. That would be 338 Fed this time, as it's the only rifle I've zeroed thus far -- with decent groups -- using factory copper ammo. We'll see what I turn up -- trophy or tasty. Last time was trophy. Monster boar with a muzzleloader just before the People's Republik of Cali-whacky lead ban went into effect. Think I may go for tasty this time.
 
Nice pig...:).

I have a .338 Federal...a custom-barreled Mark II RSI. Very handy little rifle, and it shoots 185 TSX's at 2600 fps into tight little groups. Also kills mule deer nicely, if last year's experience is any example.

Dennis
 
Thanks.

My 338 Fed, a Ruger stainless Hawkeye, shoots 185 TSX very well, also. Must be the magic pill for that caliber. Shot it again today, and it's consistently sub-MOA -- one the few rifles in my collection that actually LIKES factory copper ammo. Several of my Weatherbys hate the stuff. I've not tried it in my .257 Wby Mag yet, which I suspect will shoot it well based on multiple reports for that caliber, but I refuse to mess with perfection in that rifle. I flat refuse to ever feed it anything other than 120 grain Nosler Partitions. I picked up the Hawkeye 338 Fed cheap used, and am very happy to make that my "California rifle," in view of the lead ban over much of the state. It will certainly do for a hog gun and the occasional deer; otherwise, most of my big game hunting is out of state.

Where do you hunt mule deer? Those two words always get my attention...
 
Where do I hunt mule deer?

Well...over the years I have hunted them in Oregon, Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota, Idaho and Montana. The one with the .338 Federal I killed in Montana last year. This year I will hunt for mule deer in Idaho, Montana and South Dakota, plus blacktails in Alaska. Maybe whitetails somewhere, though I have a ways to go to sort that out.

Where in California do you live? My wife is down there near Sacramento visiting her mother at the moment.

Dennis
 
Ah, you're obviously a fellow mule deer addict. I'd just as soon hunt good mule deer as anything else. I'm in Ventura County, up out of the concrete jungle a bit. Canyon country... have deer, coyotes, and occasional mountain lions and black bears visiting the hills that begin right out the back door -- but I can't mess with them right here. Do most of my deer hunting out of state these days. I like places like Texas and Kentucky for whitetails, and Wyoming, Montana and New Mexico for mule deer. Best live Mulie I've ever seen was in New Mexico. Legit 30-inch 4X4 with huge double drop tines and great mass throughout. Unfortunately, I was holding a muzzloader and he was thumbing his nose at me at 225... just a tad far with the smokepole.
 
I shot my first mule deer in 1977, in Colorado when I lived in Oregon. Yeah...I'm a little attached :D.

Can't imagine living in California, though. Both of my daughters do, even though neither one was born there or lived there until they were adults on their own. I was there a couple of years -- 1971 through 1973. Taught me everything I needed to know... Way too many people; way too much control. I like it a lot better here, though if I could find a place with less external control I'd move there in a heartbeat.

Too each our own, of course :).

Dennis
 
OK, I can report on my .338 Fed now with copper (in addition to my earlier posts re. the .388 RCM). Made a three-hour run north yesterday and shot this nice meat hog late yesterday afternoon with the .338 Fed (Ruger Howkeye 77 Stainless) shooting Federal factory loads with 185 grain TSX. I'm not a big fan of copper, but needed to iron out a "California-legal" rifle. The guide, a fellow I've hunted with for a couple of decades now, purely hates copper. Says wounds are typically through and through, but lots of hogs run off a ways from hits that would have anchored them with lead, or so he asserts. Given the volume of hunters he deals with, I wouldn't question his observation. That wasn't the case with this hog, however. Entry wound just behind point of shoulder, with the round smashing a couple of vertebrae and exiting through the ribs on the offside. Of course, not much of anything runs very far with a smashed upper spinal column. :D

_DSC3510-8x10-cx.jpg
 
I've killed hundreds and hundreds of hogs with Barnes X bullets. Can't say that I agree with your guide buddy. In fact I've found them to be about the best choice on big hogs that there is.
 
He didn't say they didn't work... just said he didn't like them because he has to trail more wounded hogs, for longer distances, than he had to when hunters were using lead ammo. If the stuff works for you, that's wonderful, but I believe his observation is valid (certainly it is from his perspective with regard to his hunters, who span a wide range of competence). There is certainly no shortage of reports, covering many different species, of lots of through-and-throughs with copper, with game not dropping DRT or close to it. This particular guide, by the way, has been at it for well over 30 years (that's just since I've know him) and his hunters number in the hundreds annually. Of course, we all know bullet placement is key, but I am beginning to suspect it may be even MORE critical, in some circumstances with some calibers, with certain copper rounds. Apart from that issue, I don't like the stuff because many of my MOA-shooting rifles (with lead) simply don't like copper -- at all. The fact of the matter is that many rifles simply will not shoot copper accurately. Non-lead proponents don't like to talk about that dirty little secret, but accuracy issues are commonplace. Plus, the stuff is expensive. The poor, one-rifle hunter who can't afford the high cost of ammo or the luxury of buying new rifles until he finds one that can shoot copper accurately... is simply screwed in California now. Either that, or he'll keep going out and risk wounding and losing more game with a suddenly less-accurate rifle. Talk to a a lot of California hunters who've had the stuff shoved down their throats and, believe me, you'll get a hatful of negative feedback on copper ammo. Personally, while I don't like the stuff, I'm happy to have found at least one rifle in my collection (after a lot of royal pain in the butt testing) that will shoot the stuff .75 in. all day long, and I'm comfortable enough with the performance to feel confident that the bullets will do their job if I do mine. However, anyone who went through a similar torturous process just to be able to hunt legally across most of this idiotic state is not likely to turn into a big copper bullet fan anytime soon.
 
KW,

While I totally agree with you about the CA lead ban and the idiocy within CA. I have to say that the accuracy and copper thing is generally a user problem not a rifle problem. I've never meet a once accurate rifle that I can't properly tune up to shoot TSX bullets to match grade accuracy with hand loads.

The number one problem people have with accuracy and copper bullets is their cleaning technique. Or lack of it. The best copper cleaner on the planet is Wipe Out foaming cleaner. Before you even think about trying a TSX load in a gun let it sit for 24 hours with a snout full of Wipe Out foam.That is a good starting point. I've never seen a rifle that I can't get to shoot really good with Barnes TSX bullets. The terminal performance is superb as well with TSX. I've killed Cape buffalo X 2 with Barnes one elephant half a dozen elk or more, same number of deer, Pronghorn X 4 or 5 inyala, kudu, blue wildebeest, black wildebeest, springbok, impala, blessbok, zebra, warthog, gemsbok, baboon, and conservatively 200+ feral hogs with TSX bullets. I've never had one "pencil" through I've never had the slightest trouble with one exception with a TSX not performing as advertised on game.

The buffalo I killed in Zim last May was my 5th and I killed him with one shot from my .375H&H using a 300gr TSX. It was the fastest kill I've ever seen on a buff with a body shot. As far as hogs go I've seen them shot with and I have shot them with just about every imaginable caliber and bullet choice out there. I've had a lease on a ranch in Northern Texas for the last 12 years and I personally kill between 50 and 150 hog a year on that place and my guests generally pitch in for 15 to 50 depending on the year. I have seen and I have shot all different sized hogs with everything from ballistic tips to square nosed solids out of double rifles. If you gut shoot a hog with anything it is going to run off and leave little or no blood. That is where the "pencil" myth comes from, that and the fact that a hogs vitals are further forward than a deers plus the fact that about 90% of the guys who come out and do a guided hunt for hogs can't shoot worth a crap in the the field.

My observation is that not only do you get better penetration with a TSX but I've found the initial shock and knock down to be every bit as good as a conventional or premium lead bullet. I've heard about a Barnes not opening and slipping through but I've never seen it personally. The one weird thing that I have seen with a TSX was last year on Pronghorn. I had a TSX enter the chest just behind the shoulder and do a 90 deg turn and exit out the brisket. I've seen a Nosler PT do almost the same thing once upon a time out of a .270 Weatherby on a pronghorn. It hit the critter on a perfect broad side shot right behind the shoulder and exited the right eye! Sometimes stuff happens no matter what bullet you are using.

PS

I'd be pissed if my state told me I had to use copper bullets too! What CA really needs is a couple of dozen strategically placed LGB's in Sacramento, Berkley and a few other choice areas.;)
 
We're getting a little off topic here but that's what makes the forum go round, right? I agree that handloaders can generally get copper to shoot OK in most rifles, but the masses who don't handload are STUCK with whatever results their rifle(s) turn in. I also agree with you that proper cleaning is critical in getting good accuracy with copper ammo, but that was not an issue with my rifles. I am a huge fan of Bore Tech Eliminator. Stuff is incredible -- it's non-corrosive, has no ammonia, and works unbelievably fast. I use plastic brushes with it, but that's not even necessary. It will remove copper using just a handful of patches. At any rate, four of my rifles would not shoot factory copper ammo well at all -- and they are all very accurate rifles with their preferred lead loads. So, yes, it can be a HUGE problem for guys who don't handload -- and that may help explain the higher incidence of wounded hogs. I've since spoken about this with several other guides I've known for a very long time, and they're all reporting more problems since copper became mandatory. (Also lower deer tag sales/lost revenue). I had to laugh re. your observation about 90% of guided hog hunters not being able to shoot "worth a crap" in the field, because you just insulted a WHOLE BUNCH of people! I don't know what the actual percentage is, but certainly there's some merit in the observation that not everyone can shoot well in the field. See, now that's the PC way to say it. *laughing* You sure you're not from Texas?

Reminds me of something funny one of my Canadian bear-hunting guides told me. Said they cringe when hunters show up from Texas. They immediately start asking where the stand is and how come animals aren't just walking out in front of them. To be fair, they're equally wary of California hunters, who they say always show up overgunned. I may have changed his mind with my 338 RCM. He was fairly covetous of that rifle by the time I left. (See, I can too stay on topic!).
 
H&H--Agree with you 100%--basically the same animal list +/- (several sheep, moose, a longer list of African animals, though not as many of each, plus lots of Asian Mountain critters). I've been using nothing but Barnes X bullets and their improvements for hunting in various calibers and cartridges since 1989, i.e. I'm one of the original users. Clean barrel will produce loads as accurate as the rifle will shoot with anything. I use Barnes X's and derivatives because they preform on game like nothing else. When I spend $25 or $30 K on a hunt, I want the best performance available in the bullet. Barnes accomplishes that, no exception in my observations.
I don't worry too much about those that use factory ammo. The majority of that group aren't very serious shooters or hunters, anyway, hence most (not all) are, to be polite, a bit lacking in shooting skills.
 
moosehunt - Regardless of whether you like or dislike copper ammo, your statement is, to put it politely, elitist. It's the factory ammo shooters who underwrite the industry, and it would be a serious mistake to label most as "lacking in shooting skills." I use factory ammo not only because I must frequently write about/report on performance, but also because my time is extremely limited and I just don't have the time to reload for every firearm in my collection. Not everyone has the means to drop 25-30K on a hunt, particuarly in the current economy. I would not be so quick to dismiss those who don't -- and those who don't handload -- as simply not being very serious about their shooting or hunting. They are the majority, and that majority keeps the firearms/ammunition industry afloat. Without a supporting industrial base, our second amendment rights are illusory at best. Why do you think the antis are constantly attacking the industry via every judicial and regulatory path they can find? You say you don't worry about too much about those that use factory ammo? That's like saying you don't worry about he heart, soul and lifeblood of America. If every hunter took that attitude, our sport would quickly be history.
 
Let me clarify a bit. When I said I wasn't too worried about those that use factory ammo, I was referring to comments regarding their problems in getting good accuracy out of their stuff. I maintain that the majority (not all) of those that use factory ammo are not real serious shooters or hunters, and that consequently they tend to be a bit lacking in their shooting skills, consequently, a little loss of accuracy from copper bullets is not a major loss in their situations. I am not suggesting that I don't concern myself with those shooters/hunters in general, just their lack of getting top accuracy out of copper bullets. The point is, most people that hunt or shoot very much reload, and can develop excellent accuracy loads with copper (Barnes) bullets. You are a writer and have to write about their ammo, so of course you shoot it--but I bet you don't buy much of it. That is not to be taken as a slander--it's your job, somewhat of an enviable one, if I do say so. I know that not everyone (not even a lot of folks) go on relatively expensive out of country hunts; that wasn't the point. The point is that when I spend that much, I want the best bullet, and my experience tells me unequivically that that is a Barns X derivative. If I could afford the expensive hunts, I think you know what I mean--the Altay Argali or Bongo or Giant Eland, etc--the hunts that are truly expensive, I would without question be using the best bullets available, i.e. Barnes X types. And they would shoot accurately because I loaded them!
 
There are zillions of factory-ammo-shooting whitetail hunters out there, to use just one example, who would strongly disagree with your characterization of them as not being real serious hunters or shooters. I would submit that, down in Dixie, them's fightin' words!

The conversion to copper in California has not gone as smoothly as proponents of the lead ban would have you believe. We've already seen significant impact in tag/license sales from hunters who just said "the hell with this" and quit hunting in California. That's exactly what the antis want, and you can bet it's only a matter of time before they find excuses, using pseudo-science, to impose similar bans elsewhere. Arizona is already inching in that direction. The well-funded HSUS is on record as having declared that their goal is to eliminate all sport hunting, starting in California, and the lead ban is just one more tool in their arsenal, which includes microstamping and every other lunatic idea they can think of that makes hunting ever more expensive or difficult for the masses.

Re. the accuracy issue, I can only report on what I've experienced, and there's a big difference between a little loss of accuracy and a gross loss of accuracy. I'm sure you would not want to be that poor fellow who owns only one rifle and can't really afford to feed it premium copper ammo -- and who finds himself legislated into the position of shooting an innacurate rife or giving up hunting. That's the reality now across most of Callifornia, where the fish and game commision has just voted to further expand the lead ban.

While I'm happy to have finally found a rifle/factory copper ammo combo (in .338 Fed, happily) that works for me here in the People's Republik, I still prefer lead in my rifle diet, thank you very much, and we can agree to disagree over our individual preferences. The bottom line is that copper ammo will certainly get the job done -- but not without big headaches for many hunters.

We all know that the "best bullet" depends on what you're hunting and the conditions under which you're hunting a particular species. Just as monolithic solids are the preferred medicine for some applications, there's no good reason to force people to abandon the use of plain-Jane softpoints if/when that's all that's required to do the job.

And yes, I do buy some of my own ammo... under duress at times, admittedly... but I am not a happy camper when the premium stuff won't shoot worth beans.
 
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