New Tikka T3 Lite .308 owner with a few questions!

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Hi all,


I recently got a Tikka T3 Lite chambered in .308. Don't worry, I already installed a Limbsaver recoil pad I heard without one is quite painful with heavy loads.

I have a few questions for those who might know:

1. Will the 1:11 twist stabilize 175 grain SMK rounds just fine out to 1000 yards? Is the Federal 175 grain SMK BTHP the right round to do it? Using the JBM calculator, a 155 grain A-MAX @ 2800 fps has about the exact same trajectory as the 175 SMK @ 2650 fps. Does that sound right, so I could use these two rounds interchangeably with the same 200 yard zero?

2. Will frequent shooting of light, fast loads (150 grains @ 2,850/2,900) wear down the stainless steel barrel too fast?

3. Should I clean the barrel after each range trip, even if I only fire 10-15 rounds? Will a few patches with CLP do? Do I need a bore guide? Any particular cleaning kit or type of rod that you would recommend for this gun? I'm kind of new to bolt-actions incase you couldn't tell.

4. I bought an EGW 1 piece Picatinny scope mount (for a 4-14x IOR Valada), which I heard is pretty high quality. Should I use blue loctite, and do I need a torque wrench?

Thanks for the help guys! Any other random pointers on the .308 T3 are welcome.
 
1. I ont own a .308 but do have its big brother an '06. I wouldsay it should stabilize the 175's but no guarantees. My 1/10 works alway up to 208 and 220's just fine.

2. I dont think shooting 10 or 20 rounds fairly fast would wear your barrel out. A 100 as fast as possible would probably cause damage.

3. That will cause an argument no doubt. I only CLEAN mine after groups open up. I strip and oil it after every range trip including bore. But only strip copper completely with copper solvents after accuracy fades usually areoun 100 rounds or so. a chamber guide is a major help as cleaning from the muzzle repeatedly can damage the rifling close to muzle which is the most important part and damage the crown which will ruin accuracy generally.

4. blue loctite will be fine. You dont necessarily need a torque wrench. I just snug them up really good. Some peoples snug is different than others. Ive seen many stripped screw heads and many loose mounts.
 
1:11 twist will be fine for 175smk, the original remmy 5r is a 1:11.25 twist if I remember correctly and all of those hammer 175's. I wouldn't worry about a 308 burning a barrel out regardless of how you shoot it, it's a very mild caliber in barrels. I wouldn't worry about cleaning the barrel. When my last match barrel was replaced it had 2000tds down it and was never cleaned. The barrel still shot amazing but I was just changing calibers. My current barrel is chambered for 6mm creedmoor and its approaching the ~1300rd range and I have never cleaned it.... It shot a .3 group the other day so is say cleaning is overrated. IMHO a torque wrench is a must for people mounting scopes and bases. It doesn't have to be a crazy expensive one. Your looking for consistency in your torque.
 
I shoot a T3 (Hunter version) in 308 and have used it since (about) 2004. To answer your questions:

(1) I've not had any problem shooting 180 grain Sierras and suspect the 175 SMK will be even better. My rifle really likes the 180s, but absolutely loves the 165s.

(2) Nope! Shouldn't wear down the barrel.

(3) I use a Pro Shot Micro Polished cleaning rod. Tipton also makes great rods. No it's not absolutely necessary to clean after 10 - 15 shots. If you have the time to do so that would be great, but it's not necessary.

(4) The EGW rail is excellent and is what I have on my rifle. Blue loctite is what you need to use. A torque wrench would be best, but if you don't have one just don't over tighten (twist the hell out of the screw). Snug firmly with loctite and all will be fine.

Tip: Shoot often! That is if you can afford it and can find the ammo or reloading components.

The 308 is not that punishing on recoil, especially with the Limbsaver. Mine has the standard factory pad and it is not punishing at all (my perception - opinions certainly vary). Of course my rifle weighs just a tad more than the T3 Lite, but not that much more.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. So I don't need to clean the bore every time I shoot it? Is every 200 rounds good enough? I heard a good rule of thumb is to clean it when the groups start to open up.

Should I get a .308 bore-snake for when I do clean it?
 
I only use a bore snake for a quick cleaning in the field if needed. I don't rely on it for a thorough cleaning. For that I use a good high quality rod, brushes, patches, and jag. I thoroughly clean my rifle after (approximately) 100 + rounds. Groups opening up is definitely a key to get out the rod and go to work.

If I were shooting long range competition, I'd clean more often. However, I only shoot long distance with friends for fun and to sustain the skill needed to do so if necessary. Competitive shooting is something I no longer enjoy due to numerous reasons (age, failing health, travel expense, lack of need to compete). When I did compete, I'd clean after every range session. At my age (59), there are many things to which I'd devote my time than cleaning a rifle after every session. But, that's me and you may have cause to do so.

As far as cleaning solvents: I've used just about everything out there at one point in time in the past 50 years and there are many that work with good results. (This is a whole 'nuther endless and mostly senseless debate since there are so many products that do work). However, with respect to copper removal; there is only one product that I now use since I do believe it far superior to anything else and that is KG-12. So, when you finally detect that you may have copper build up, give it a try.

http://www.kgcoatings.com/cleaning/kg-12-big-bore-cleaner/

For carbon fouling just use whatever turns you on. Lubes? Well, if it rotates oil it! If it slides, grease it! Lots of good stuff out there. To each his own.
 
a full cleaning is not needed at 200rds, just make you waste ammo to get the barrel back to fouled where it shoots like it should to start with.
 
If your groups don't begin to open up prior to 200 rounds, then you have a "miracle" rifle.
 
That's like saying my rifle shoots good at the beginning of a 250rd match but not at the end, just not true. Look at the PRS series of long range matches and take a survey on how we clean. These are shooters with the best gear money can buy, if they thought cleaning was needed it would happen.
 
Thanks again for the replies. I ordered an IOR Valdada 4-14x50mm mil dot scope for the gun. Would Burris Xtreme Tactical Medium rings work, or do I need high rings? Thanks
 
Yeah I have to agree with the comments above, a 1:11 twist should have no trouble with a 175gr SMKs I shoot 180s accurately in my 1:12 twist Winchester 308, as far as barrel wear is concerned don't worry the 308 is not overbore enough to wear out a barrel fast no matter how you load it, expect many fine years of shooting and several thousand rounds before you need to worry about that the 308 is a LONG way from being a barrel burner.
I only clean my T3 every other trip to the range, the rifling seems to have rather smooth edges I hardly get any fouling out of mine unlike my Savages.
Recoil of the 308 is not harsh (to me) even with 180s, you don't NEED a limbsaver but I like a nice recoil pad on every high powered rifle I shoot, they just feel better to me.
 
Nice scope! My buddy has one with the "Mp-8" reticule I think. The dot fine enough to dissect bullet holes at 100 yds.
 
Congratulations on getting the Tikka. I just got a stainless in 30.06 but haven’t fired it yet. Mounts and Burris Signature Zee rings are inbound now as I am setting it up with a Burris Ballistic Plex 3-9 for long range shooting.
You have a few questions and I will try and try and explain some concepts which will differ from what others have posted as follows:

Will the 1:11 twist stabilize 175 grain SMK rounds just fine out to 1000 yards? Is the Federal 175 grain SMK BTHP the right round to do it? Using the JBM calculator, a 155 grain A-MAX @ 2800 fps has about the exact same trajectory as the 175 SMK @ 2650 fps. Does that sound right, so I could use these two rounds interchangeably with the same 200 yard zero?
Yes the 11 twist twist will stabilize about anything you want to shoot. Check out
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
It is pretty self explanatory, just fill in the blanks and anything you get over 1 will be a winner for you.

You will note it asks for the length of the bullet and they also have that data for you to pluck.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml#Sierra
You will see they list the bullet length for the 175MK as 1.240 so plug this into the above program and you will see it will stabilize all the way down to 1000 fps when fired from a 13” twist rate barrel. If I were buying a new barrel I would go with a 13 twist. I have barrels at 13.8 and 14 twist and they stabilize a 168 just fine but nothing heavier.

As far as two different bullets using same 200 yard zero, I have had it happen but it is rare as bullet in bore times differ with different velocities and the barrel is moving before bullet exits and you also have a problem with different vibrations from different loadings. I think you will be better off using 175MKs for everything to keep life simple.



Will frequent shooting of light, fast loads (150 grains @ 2,850/2,900) wear down the stainless steel barrel too fast?
The rule of thumb is heavy bullets and slow propellants will eat barrels much quicker. Add in rapid fire and that doesn’t help the situation either. As well Vihta Vouri propellants are made from cotton linters and are cooler burning.l

Should I clean the barrel after each range trip, even if I only fire 10-15 rounds? Will a few patches with CLP do? Do I need a bore guide? Any particular cleaning kit or type of rod that you would recommend for this gun? I'm kind of new to bolt-actions incase you couldn't tell. For longest barrel life you should clean frequently and as soon as the last round is out the muzzle.
Consider this:
1. When you fire your rifle and look down the bore after shooting you will see dust like objects. This is carbon residue from the burning of the propellant.
2. What the hardest natural substance known to man? Carbon
3. What is added to steel/iron to make it hard? Carbon
4. It is well known carbide tool bits will cut most high speed and stainless steels and contains? Carbon
5. Diamond dust (carbon) is an abrasive that will remove material from most all metals and is used as a lapping compound as well.
6. When the rifle is fired the carbon remaining in the barrel after the first shot is soft for a period of time however as it cools it becomes quite hard. Thusly if you just put your rifle away you have left all the residue in the bore which will become an abrasive as it cools.
7. Left dirty and cooled down you now have a bore full of abrasive carbon dust which the next bullet downbore will have the abrasive embedded in the bullet jacket and you are from that point on lapping the bore which will cause premature barrel failure. By failure I don’t mean catastrophic failure but the internal dimensions will be changed as the abrasive residue removes barrel material thus the accuracy will deteriorate at an advanced rate. Basically the same principle as “lapping” a barrel is performed except the barrel will become larger internally the further down bore you go as it picks up more abrasive material as it moves along. Bing or Google “barrel lapping process”.


A one piece rod is close to ideal and also get a bore guide. I use Dewey one piece rods and bore guides. I make a carrying case from 1 ½” electrical PVC pipe and put a cap on one end and a clean out on the other. Makes a almost indestructible cleaning rod carrier that will keep rod clean and straight. Wad a old rag up and put in bottom to cushion rod handle when you drop it in for storage. Write your name and rod caliber with Sharpie permanent marker on outside.

As far as bore cleaner I use several. Ed’s Red known also as ER and you make it yourself. Obtain a 2 gallon fuel can, add 2 quarts Mercon Dexron Transmission Fluid, 2 quarts of mineral spirits (a high grade paint thinner) and 2 quarts of K1 kerosene but I also use off road diesel. It is an excellent bore cleaner and stays wet I know for 14 months left in bores. Excellent for locks, cable controls etc. I leave bores wet with it. I also store rifles muzzle down so excess bore cleaner runs out the muzzle and not soak into action area/bedding.

Some of the new miracle bore cleaners are actually too good as they leave a residue in barrel that is so slick the bullets tend to slide foreward when they contact the rifling destroying the bullet’s surface integrity.

Personally I do not know any top flight shooter that uses CLP in their match rifles and this includes the Army Marksmanship Unit and the Marine Corps Rifle Team nor Navy Rifle Team.

A number of folks now use Mobil 1 Synthetic Motor (0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20 will do). Mobil 1 keeps carbon soft and is also excellent in gas systems for semi auto rifle with good results.

Grease Auto and Artillery GAA (military surplus is also quite good). I have found it in flea markets, surplus places etc. You can also use Grease, Aircraft Wide Temperature Range WTR with good results. If you have any friends that are aircraft mechanics it is known in the civilian world as Aeroshell 33. I grease my vehicles with it. It is available on ebay at times a well.

This is especially good for hunting trips as you can pre grease patches and carry in a jar. I cut military patches (2”X2”) in half and wrap them around a 6.5MM/270 plastic bristle bore brush which makes your patches last twice as long or you can use a 22 cal bronze brush and use the whole patch. Both of these will give you a snug fit in 30 cal bore. Note: You don’t put grease on patch like your wife puts icing on a cake. If you see grease glopped up on patch after you work it in put another patch with it and transfer the excess to another patch. In short you want a patch with grease and not grease with a patch! ! ! A bottle of bore cleaner at the range or out hunting will be spilled quickly.

The greased patches snatch up the carbon residue quickly and you will see your patches turn very black. Make about ten-twenty passes with each patch and change it out for the second patch and repeat. Then same for a third patch. On the third patch just remove and leave bore as is.

Check out this thread: http://www.shootersforum.com/gun-cleaning/63278-besides-politicians-our-worst-enemy.html



I bought an EGW 1 piece Picatinny scope mount (for a 4-14x IOR Valada), which I heard is pretty high quality. Should I use blue loctite, and do I need a torque wrench?I use 222 Loctite. Can’t tell you anything about your scope selection. I use Burris,Leupold, Unertl, Lyman, NC Star (handgun scopes on rifles) and Weavers. Bear in mind there are lots of scopes out there that will not take lots of sight changes as the internal mechanisms are not designed for multiple changes like a target shooter requires.
I would estimate if you clean every 10 to 12 rounds while barrel is warm as outlined above you should get 10,000+ rounds on your barrel. Barrels are like wives, treat them well and ……………………………..
Also keep a round life log on your rifle. I go to Wally World and get the cheap bound composition books. I then take them to a print shop and get them to shear the books in three equal pieces leaving back spine in place. On the back spine I drill two holes about 2” apart and run mason’s twine cut about 14” long through the two holes and tie a knot in other end.
You can Prusik knot (one loop) the log book to your rifle barrel, trigger guard etc and keep a detailed log of all loads you try, how they work. Record round life etc.
 
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