I have been reloading pistol cartridges for awhile in .38, .44, and .40. I just ordered a SW AR in .223 and will likely want to reload for it. Aside from the dies what else will I need to purchase? What else do I need to know about reloading rifle versus pistol? I have a lee 4hole classic turret press.
New to reloading .223
- Thread starter newguy07
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Cases need lubed before resizing, need to trim rifle cases more then pistol, you will most likely run into military crimps with 223 other then that you put in a primer, powder, bullet and go shoot. All the basic reloading principles and safety measures apply to both rifle and pistol there are just a few extra steps in the rifle area.
greyling22
Member
first off, it's a pain. but...
you;ll need case lube. if you don't use it, and lots of it, you'll stick cases in the die. even if its carbide. you also need a case trimmer if you're going to reload the brass more than a couple of times. unlike straight waled pistol cases it grows longer after firing. If you're planning on using the auto disk you'll need the universal rifle charging die, and probably the double disk kit.
I've done it for a while, but I'm about to bag it and just buy steel cased ammo. it's about the same price as rolling my own. At least for the AR. my bolt gun likes the homemade stuff.
you;ll need case lube. if you don't use it, and lots of it, you'll stick cases in the die. even if its carbide. you also need a case trimmer if you're going to reload the brass more than a couple of times. unlike straight waled pistol cases it grows longer after firing. If you're planning on using the auto disk you'll need the universal rifle charging die, and probably the double disk kit.
I've done it for a while, but I'm about to bag it and just buy steel cased ammo. it's about the same price as rolling my own. At least for the AR. my bolt gun likes the homemade stuff.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
If you're using a Pro Auto-Disk powder measure with your turret press you will need the Double-Disk Kit to allow the proper powder drop in the .223/5.56mm.
cerberus65
Member
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When I added my first rifle caliber I got case lube and a free-standing powder measure.
dbarnhart
Member
I had been reloading .45acp for years when - like you - I decided to start reloading .233
The Biggest Thing: Crimped Primer Pockets
If you acquire milsurp brass the chances are nearly 100% that it has crimped primer pockets and you'll need to remove the crimp. There are many tools for doing this job and I've even owned and used several. The universally acclaimed best tool is Dillon's Super Swage 600.
The Biggest Thing: Crimped Primer Pockets
If you acquire milsurp brass the chances are nearly 100% that it has crimped primer pockets and you'll need to remove the crimp. There are many tools for doing this job and I've even owned and used several. The universally acclaimed best tool is Dillon's Super Swage 600.
I think you need a rifle charging die, too.
You'll also need a hammer and a block of concrete for the first time you stick a case, LOL.
I used to stick cases trying to batch lube with Lee lube. I went through that hassle so I could avoid washing off the lube afterwards. Lee wipes off really easily. But after my third stuck case, I switched to an oilier lube. Wash off in a bucket with water and dishsoap. Then tumble dry with my regular media.
On a classic turret press you're going to end up not getting the full use out of all 4 holes, since you have to batch process for sizing and trimming, and you don't need a final crimp. So you'll be sizing/decapping with one die, then switching between two dies to prime, charge and seat. So you might want to disconnect the auto advance.
Let's see. What else do you need to know? Loading .223 is NOT WORTH the time and money for plinking loads. Only do it if you like to reload high quality ammo. Compared to the calibers you mentioned, you'll be saving maybe 25% a box, vs the 50% to 75% or more you're saving on your pistol loads. You can't shoot cast or plated bullets out of a .223, and rifle powder costs more and you have to use a heck a lot of it. And it'll take you 5 times as long due to the brass processing.
Hmm, one other thing to know is you can use SRP in 40SW and .38, so long as your handguns can reliably pop the primers. Just back off a touch and work your loads up, again, to be safe.
You'll also need a hammer and a block of concrete for the first time you stick a case, LOL.
I used to stick cases trying to batch lube with Lee lube. I went through that hassle so I could avoid washing off the lube afterwards. Lee wipes off really easily. But after my third stuck case, I switched to an oilier lube. Wash off in a bucket with water and dishsoap. Then tumble dry with my regular media.
On a classic turret press you're going to end up not getting the full use out of all 4 holes, since you have to batch process for sizing and trimming, and you don't need a final crimp. So you'll be sizing/decapping with one die, then switching between two dies to prime, charge and seat. So you might want to disconnect the auto advance.
Let's see. What else do you need to know? Loading .223 is NOT WORTH the time and money for plinking loads. Only do it if you like to reload high quality ammo. Compared to the calibers you mentioned, you'll be saving maybe 25% a box, vs the 50% to 75% or more you're saving on your pistol loads. You can't shoot cast or plated bullets out of a .223, and rifle powder costs more and you have to use a heck a lot of it. And it'll take you 5 times as long due to the brass processing.
Hmm, one other thing to know is you can use SRP in 40SW and .38, so long as your handguns can reliably pop the primers. Just back off a touch and work your loads up, again, to be safe.
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dbarnhart
Member
>>>Loading .223 is NOT WORTH the time and money for plinking loads<<<
You're kidding, right? My 223 plinking reloads cost me $118/thousand
You're kidding, right? My 223 plinking reloads cost me $118/thousand
i just started loading .223 myself this year. it's cake first of all! what i did was made my own lanolin and alcohol mix for lube, i lubed up about 100 or so cases in a plastic bag (drop the cases in the bag, spray 'em down, and then shake the dickens out of her), then i sized them without the priming (take out the auto index rod on the press), then i tumble them to get the lube off. then i inspect each case right before i prime it, charge it, and seat the bullet. it's been a real joy to load on the turret press. i've been loading hornady bullets with H4895. It's worked real slick for me this far.............you'll definitely need the lee deluxe dies (it's the one that has the crimp die with it) and i believe they come with the rifle charging die. You will need the double disc charging kit too if you're charging on press. do yourself a favor and make sure you use the spacers for the longer screws ( i didn't do this and was pullin' my hair out ). there's tons of videos on youtube as well that'll help ya along the way............
The biggest think that helped me was a bump gauge. It makes adjusting your sizer die a breeze. I would call it a necessity. At first I was over sizing my brass and it would not chamber. The tool is used to measure how far back you are pushing the shoulders of the cartridge. It is much more precise than using a case gauge. Take a case you fired in your rifle and adjust your sizing die so that you are -.002 under the fired case. If you have multiple rifles chambered in the same caliber you should probably go -.004 under.
CB
CB
danbowkley
Member
Kinda depends on the intended use, really. If you're using an AR or other autoloader, you'll probably want to crimp the bullet pretty firmly. I do love me some Lee factory crimp goodness, YMMV. The upshot with an AR is you can get by with being somewhat less anal about weighing charges and stuff.
In my bolt guns, I'm downright OCD about everything. I weigh cases and sort them accordingly, use an electronic powder measure to weigh every charge to 0.1 grain, seat the bullet to exactly touch the lands in my rifle, and so on. Really up to you how far you wanna take it, and I'd suggest this level of OCD only after you've acquired the basics.
Really it's not much different from loading pistol; you need case lube, you have to be mindful not to lube the shoulder, you have to trim cases (again I like the Lee trimmer, it's pretty much impossible to screw it up though it is a little time consuming), and some powders are harder than others to meter well. Oh and you don't have to expand the case mouth, which is convenient. If you're using a bolt gun, seating the bullet is as close to crimping it as you'll need to get.
My fav load for .223: 24.0 grains of Varget under a Hornady 60 grain VMax moly seated to 2.250 inches. Brutally accurate, as in 10 round slightly ragged holes at 100 yards. So accurate it's not really a lot of fun anymore.
In my bolt guns, I'm downright OCD about everything. I weigh cases and sort them accordingly, use an electronic powder measure to weigh every charge to 0.1 grain, seat the bullet to exactly touch the lands in my rifle, and so on. Really up to you how far you wanna take it, and I'd suggest this level of OCD only after you've acquired the basics.
Really it's not much different from loading pistol; you need case lube, you have to be mindful not to lube the shoulder, you have to trim cases (again I like the Lee trimmer, it's pretty much impossible to screw it up though it is a little time consuming), and some powders are harder than others to meter well. Oh and you don't have to expand the case mouth, which is convenient. If you're using a bolt gun, seating the bullet is as close to crimping it as you'll need to get.
My fav load for .223: 24.0 grains of Varget under a Hornady 60 grain VMax moly seated to 2.250 inches. Brutally accurate, as in 10 round slightly ragged holes at 100 yards. So accurate it's not really a lot of fun anymore.
ironhead7544
Member
I use Imperial Sizing Wax and then tumble clean. Hate wiping off cases. Wideners has bulk bullets fairly cheap. For practice I use IMR4198. Not top velocities but good accuracy and less powder per round. Trimming is the hardest and most time consuming part of rifle loading. Little Crow has a drill powered trimmer for that. After I trim and tumble I gauge the cases. Only trim the long ones. No crimp is necessary for most loads.
Some pistol measures, or measures with pistol inserts, will drop enough powder to load .223. Check and you'll know about yours. If it won't handle .223, hopefully it can accept a "rifle" insert that will work.
While lubing cases is more trouble than using carbide dies with no lube for pistol calibers, it isn't a real big deal. I use RCBS Case Lube II and Imperial. Either can be applied by hand. I put a little RCBS lube on my left pointer and middle finger and use them along with my thumb to wipe the cases as I feed them. Doesn't take much, just a fine film on most of the case. If you put too much on the shoulder you can get "lube dents". Same thing if you get carried away with the body, but it has to be really overdone there. then just tumble it off after sizing. Or rinse it off, or wipe it off, but tumbling is easy.
Trimming is more critical. Trim to 1.750 and trim again if they get to 1.260. It may take two or three firings with new soft brass, to 4 or 5 firings with more used cases which have work hardened a bit. just have to check them. I use a Possum Hollow trimmer chucked up in a lathe. It works great and is fast. You have to deburr and chamfer afterwards, just as you would if you used a Forster or RCBS hand trimmer. The Wilson is a good one as well. The Giraud and Gracey trimmers deburr and chamfer as they trim, and are fast, and a bit pricy, but are the way to go if you do boatloads of .223.
Another thing to keep an eye on are signs of case head separation. Proper sizing will go a long way to keeping this from happening. You should be able to wear the brass out due to loose primer pockets etc without signs of incipient case head separation.
You can use a paper clip or other tool with a little bend on the end to feel inside the case for the "rut" that is a sure sign of impending separation.
When sizing for autos, sizing to fit a case gauge will keep you out of trouble. It will make sure your length is OK, but more importantly, that your headspace (assuming a proper chamber) is OK. Excessive headspace, whether mechanical or artificially induced by pushing the shoulder back to far, will cause case stretching and case head separations.
Using a case gauge for bolt guns works great as well, but many of us like to size to fit the gun with bolt guns, keeping case stretching at an even smaller amount, by "partial" full length sizing. Just push the shoulder back enough to chamber.
Primer pockets in .223 are often crimped, which is not a problem (usually) when decapping, but it is when repriming. We must remove the crimp so we can prime them again. There are cheap and easy ways, like this Hornady tool which I have. I chuck it up in a drill press. Then there is what is considered the best, the Dillon Super Swage. How many cases you will do doing will determine what you need, or are willing, to spend on a tool.
I probably missed something, but this should help. AC
While lubing cases is more trouble than using carbide dies with no lube for pistol calibers, it isn't a real big deal. I use RCBS Case Lube II and Imperial. Either can be applied by hand. I put a little RCBS lube on my left pointer and middle finger and use them along with my thumb to wipe the cases as I feed them. Doesn't take much, just a fine film on most of the case. If you put too much on the shoulder you can get "lube dents". Same thing if you get carried away with the body, but it has to be really overdone there. then just tumble it off after sizing. Or rinse it off, or wipe it off, but tumbling is easy.
Trimming is more critical. Trim to 1.750 and trim again if they get to 1.260. It may take two or three firings with new soft brass, to 4 or 5 firings with more used cases which have work hardened a bit. just have to check them. I use a Possum Hollow trimmer chucked up in a lathe. It works great and is fast. You have to deburr and chamfer afterwards, just as you would if you used a Forster or RCBS hand trimmer. The Wilson is a good one as well. The Giraud and Gracey trimmers deburr and chamfer as they trim, and are fast, and a bit pricy, but are the way to go if you do boatloads of .223.
Another thing to keep an eye on are signs of case head separation. Proper sizing will go a long way to keeping this from happening. You should be able to wear the brass out due to loose primer pockets etc without signs of incipient case head separation.
You can use a paper clip or other tool with a little bend on the end to feel inside the case for the "rut" that is a sure sign of impending separation.
When sizing for autos, sizing to fit a case gauge will keep you out of trouble. It will make sure your length is OK, but more importantly, that your headspace (assuming a proper chamber) is OK. Excessive headspace, whether mechanical or artificially induced by pushing the shoulder back to far, will cause case stretching and case head separations.
Using a case gauge for bolt guns works great as well, but many of us like to size to fit the gun with bolt guns, keeping case stretching at an even smaller amount, by "partial" full length sizing. Just push the shoulder back enough to chamber.
Primer pockets in .223 are often crimped, which is not a problem (usually) when decapping, but it is when repriming. We must remove the crimp so we can prime them again. There are cheap and easy ways, like this Hornady tool which I have. I chuck it up in a drill press. Then there is what is considered the best, the Dillon Super Swage. How many cases you will do doing will determine what you need, or are willing, to spend on a tool.
I probably missed something, but this should help. AC
Really?
I'm just getting into it, but I think I will end up paying that much for primers and powder!
If you don't mind me asking.... what type of bullet are you using, and where can I get them for such a good price?
RustyFN
Member
http://www.rmrbullets.com/
55 grain are $71 per 1K shipped.
WC-844 powder $85 for 8 pounds takes around 3.5 pounds per 1K at Pat's reloading.
Wolf primers $15.50 per 1K at powder valley
Check for WC-844 and bullets at Pat's reloading and X-tremebullets.
J_McLeod
Member
Even you don't want to trim or swage any brass, you can buy it pre-processed and still pay less per 1k than buy cheap Russian steel cased ammo and you'll have better quality that you can control.
http://slashk.org/brass.aspx
RustyFN
Member
How do you know what I want to do. I trim 223 brass and swage primer pockets all the time. I have never bought any brass or factory rounds and have around 5,000 pieces of 223 brass. That's what the range is for, free brass.
J_McLeod
Member
Sorry. I meant that more for the newbies like me. I don't want to trim or swage until I can afford the Dillon setup.How do you know what I want to do. I trim 223 brass and swage primer pockets all the time. I have never bought any brass or factory rounds and have around 5,000 pieces of 223 brass. That's what the range is for, free brass.
twohightech
Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2011
- Messages
- 39
I just starting to load 233 it is a little slow been working on free range brass 5gal bucket. Like Chev77 use lanolin and alcohol mix for lube. I got a Possum Hollow trimmer and an RCBS swage die it really goes much faster now. I set a 5 gal bucket under the press pull handle while i get the next case push the swaged one out as i place the next one in the die. Then push them in the drills to trim drop into bucket. You can go to your local gun show for your powder, primmers, bullets with out shipping cost. I got a 32pnd can of WC-844 for $300 and found pulled 62grn bullet cheap online. Oh the guy had new primmed cases LC for $70 1000 with some tranish or $120 LC 1000 with out tranish. They are ways of doing it cheaper if you want too load 223 but it is a pain. I do see me getting a X-die soon. Yes the dillion 1050 would the the easy and best way of reloading 223.
RustyFN
Member
No problem. It's not that bad. If you aren't loading real hot you can probably load three times before you have to trim again. It doesn't matter which press you have the cases will have to be trimmed at some point.
J_McLeod
Member
At that point I might just scrap, sell or give them away. Or save them until I buy the right equipment. Using the Lee chuck with a drill just isn't practical at the rate AR's fire.
RustyFN
Member
Yea the Lee trimmer worked good when I wasn't shooting as much but I have been shooting a lot of 223 lately. I have been looking at the Giraud trimmer lately and might have to get one in the near future.
J_McLeod
Member
I'm thinking about the Dillon 1200 size and trim die.
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