First Rifle reloading effort (.223), whats different from pistol?

[FlaBoy]

Hey all,

I recently set myself up with a Lee Classic 4-hole Turret press to reload for pistol (40 s&w) and have gotten pretty comfortable with that. I have it set up with the auto disk pro measure and safety prime system and carbide dies for .40.

Since I just ordered a Kel-Tec SU-16C (folding-stock tactical carbine in .223/5.56) and my buddy just got an AR, I'm looking to get set up to reload .223. Since this will be my first rifle cartridge, I"m looking for some guidance on what extra supplies/equipment I'd need, and how the procedure for rifle differs from reloading for pistol. As far as equipment, all I have so far is another turret (for quick caliber changes) and a 3-piece set of Lee dies for .223 (not carbide).

Here's what else I think I need to get (please let me know if I'm leaving anything off, or I have something here that's unnecessary):

powder-through charging die (?) - unless one of the lee .223 dies i already have charges case?
case lube - for lubing in/out cleaned cases before sizing/forming
case trimmer - do you need to check/trim case length every time? only every so often?

Part of where I am confused is with the dies: there are 2 (or more?) different versions of Lee 3-piece die sets for .223 (Deluxe and Pacesetter). Not 100% sure which I have (will check when I get home). Both have full-length sizer die and bullet seating die. One has a collet neck-sizing die, the other the Lee factory crimp die. I guess what I'm not 100% sure of is which dies I will need (or want) and how do I charge the case using my auto-disk pro?

Basically if someone could run down the basic steps needed to reload a necked rifle cartridge (like .223) I'd appreciate it. Don't need full-on detail (yet), I can research that on my own. Was looking more for a basic equipment list and outline of procedure so I can wrap my head around how rifle reloading works. Thanks gents!

 

[SlowFuse]

On the dies, you won't need the neck sizer unless your loading for a bolt gun. Loads for a semiauto need to be full sized. Whether or not crimping is required is a somewhat controversial subject. I lightly crimp mine as an extra precaution to avoid bullet movement/setback. Trim length and overall length are a little more important on bottleneck cartridges compared to straight wall pistol cartridges.

 

[1KPerDay]

I posted this on another forum but you might find it useful

A case length trimmer is a must. Lee makes a cheap one that works well once you figure it out. It's caliber specific but the different gauges for the cutter are cheap. I use an RCBS trim pro with a 3-in-one cutter that trims, chamfers and deburrs. If you don't use something like this you'll need a chamfer/deburring tool. They're cheap.

Some sort of primer pocket reamer and/or cleaner. if you are using military brass, you'll need either a primer pocket swager or a reamer capable of removing the crimp. If you want to get anal/ultimate accuracy you may want a primer flash hole uniformer. I don't use one (see my results below).

Full length resizing die. May be obvious but some are unaware that you must full-length resize for semi-auto rifles.

Some good case lube is a must. I like Imperial Sizing Wax.

A bullet puller. The impact type are about $15.

If you plan to load rifle exclusively, I'd start with a good single stage press.

Some prefer to prime on the press, others prefer one of the hand-priming tools.

You'll want a couple bench blocks to hold/organize casings when prepping/charging etc.

You'll need a good powder scale. the Ohaus/RCBS 5-0-5 or 5-10 is good. I use an old Redding balance scale.

You CAN use the lee powder dippers. However it's much more precise to use a scale and a powder trickler to work up loads in tenths of a grain.

A good powder dispenser saves time. You CAN hand-scoop powder and measure, but it's time-consuming.

You don't NEED a vibratory tumbler (or other case cleaner of your choice) but they are very nice to have. I like my Lyman Turbo 2400. I sift the tumbling media with a dedicated kitchen colander.

A good reloading manual or two. If you're a BEGINNER to reloading, the ABCs of reloading is a good start. If you already have a pretty good concept of the process you may find it unnecessary.


FYI Reloading for bottle-necked rifle rounds is MUCH more complicated than pistol. I started reloading about a year ago with a Lee Classic Turret (highly recommended BTW) kit from Kempf (google it). I've loaded over 5,000 rounds of .45, .40, 9mm, .38, and .380 with great success. However I've only loaded a couple hundred .30-06 so far and I haven't figured out how to make a really accurate load yet (because I'm cheap and am using pulled M80 pills). Rifle reloading is a lot more work.

Good luck.

 

[cfullgraf]

First, carbide resizing dies for rifle cartridges are few and far between and very expensive. You still need to lubricate the cases with rifle carbide dies. They are for volume loaders that wear out steel dies. Do not waste your time looking for one.

Second, a standard rifle die set is two dies. The resizing is done on the up stroke and an expander button on the decapping pin expands the mouth on the down stroke. You will also need a little lubricant on the expander button.

Lee makes a die called a Factor Crimp Die, which would be a third die in a set. There is lots of controversy over the value of the FCD die. I do not crimp any of my rifle rounds, even AR rounds, so no crimp dies used in my reloading room.

You will need a trimmer, chamfer/deburr tool, and a set of calipers. Rifle cases do grow in length and must be returned to standard length. Lots of different designs of trimmers on the market and each have their following. The Lee trimming system is a good economical start though.

I check case length after each resizing. I trim only cases that are too long, about a quarter to a third of them on average.

There are lots of different lubricant options. I use a pad with RCBS water soluable lubricant or hand apply Imperial Sizing Wax. I then tumble the cases to clean off the lubricant after sizing.

Hornady One Shot has alot of controversy concerning its use on rile cases.

I am sure you have a reloading manual. Most of the reloading manuals have good chapters in them on reloading rifle cases.

I did not get to all your questions but I hope this helps.

 

[1KPerDay]

Yes, you'll need the lee rifle charging die.

So basically (after the extensive case prep, which basically takes all the extra time) you'll need to decide whether you want to run your your LCT as a semi-progressive (with the auto-index rod in place) or as a single stage (without the index rod).

When you're starting out I recommend the latter. You can size/deprime, tumble/clean, swage primer pockets if necessary, clean primer pockets if you want, trim/deburr. Then all your cases are ready.

You can either prime on the press or get a hand primer setup. A lot of rifle guys prefer the latter. If you prime on the press, AND you've done case prep including depriming/primer pocket stuff previously, you can "semi-progressive" your LCT thus:

1. have an empty station, insert the case, raise the ram, insert primer.
2. Lower the ram and prime
3. station 2 is your powder through rifle charging die.
4. station 3 is your bullet seating or seating/crimping die.

That's just one way to do it.


If you're single-stage/batch loading, you just get your cases all prepped and primed, and then charge a batch (use loading blocks), then move the die over and seat a batch.

Dunno if this helped... but it's just one way to set up your LCT to load .223

 

[1KPerDay]

BTW I assumed you already have calipers and a good scale.

 

[FlaBoy]

IKPerDay:

Thanks, thats a lot of the info I was looking for. I'm sure when I get home and sort through which dies I have and run through a dummy practice batch, I'll have some more, but I think I get the basics. And yes, I do already have calipers, scale, manuals, etc. Am I correct that the basic process goes:

Clean case
lube case
Deprime/resize
Check length, trim as needed
Prime
charge with powder
Seat bullet
Crimp with lee factory crimp (this is optional?)
Check OAL, etc.
Put holes in paper (or hogs, or deer, or whatever)

 

[SlowFuse]

While doing the trim as needed step I chamfer/deburr the inside and outside of the case mouth. The Lee hand tool for this works great for low volume reloaders. If you load a lot you may want to upgrade.

Also, before priming you need to clean the primer pocket out if its once fired brass. There's tools for this also, ill recommend Lee again on this. You can get the primer pocket cleaner and the chamfer/debur tool for about $5-6 for both.

 

[FlaBoy]

I've got a pocket cleaner (the simple double sided one). Need to get some sort of trimmer/debur/chamfer tool.

 

[rcmodel]

I would advise you to buy a .223 case gage too.
L.E. Wilson or other.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33287/Product/Wilson-Case-Gauge

It is invaluable in setting up the sizing die for factory spec headspace.

You ain't got problems till you load a bunch of .223 ammo for an autoloader that won't go in far enough for the bolt to lock, and won't come back out either!

rc

 

[wally]

Lots of good info here, the major difference IMHO is the brass will not last nearly as long as handgun brass and you need to be careful to keep track of the number of trimmings and monitor the wall thickness near the base lest you start having head separations.

I don't do a lot of rifle reloading for this reason and the fact I shoot mostly auto-loaders which make finding the brass afterwards problematic.

I would advise you to buy a .223 case gage too. It is invaluable in setting up the sizing die for factory spec headspace.

I was under the impression you need to do "full length" resizing (the bottom of the die touches the top of the shell holder) for autos, especially if you expect ammo interchangeability among different guns. Isn't "headspace" a property of the gun not the ammo, although out of spec ammo can cause headspace-like issues.

 

[rcmodel]

I was under the impression you need to do "full length" resizing

You do.
But a lot of new reloaders seem to have problems with that.

If you follow the die instructions when setting the sizing die, it usually doesn't take into account for press frame flex and linkage slop.

Then when you try to chamber a round in your semi-auto, it won't chamber and becomes stuck, and I mean really stuck.

A Wilson case gage will ward off a bunch of semi-auto problems before you get them.

Headspace created by sizing is what you want to call it I guess.
I call it excess headspace if the case is sized too much for the chamber and you got it.

rc

 

[1KPerDay]

I was under the impression you need to do "full length" resizing (the bottom of the die touches the top of the shell holder) for autos, especially if you expect ammo interchangeability among different guns. Isn't "headspace" a property of the gun not the ammo, although out of spec ammo can cause headspace-like issues.

You do. However, you don't need to overdo it. Bumping the shoulder back farther than necessary increases stretching at the web and reduces case life. A case gauge is a good idea. I have them and use them. Wilsons. Forgot to put that above. Thanks RC.

Am I correct that the basic process goes:

Clean case
lube case
Deprime/resize
Tumble or otherwise clean off lube
Check length, trim as needed
Chamfer/deburr
Clean/uniform/swage primer pockets if necessary/desired
Prime
charge with powder
Seat bullet
Crimp with lee factory crimp (this is optional?)
Check OAL, etc.
Put holes in paper (or hogs, or deer, or whatever)

see edits above. Some may add other steps but that should do it.

As for the Lee Factory Crimp, I dunno. I use them on a couple of my pistol calibers but I'm not up on what they do for rifles. I don't think they have the sizing ring and are simply a taper or roll crimp die. So IF you want/need a separate crimping step, you could use that.

Most people I trust say crimping for service calibers isn't necessary if the sizing/case neck tension is correct.

That 'minds me. The expander ball on the sizing/decapping die resizes the neck as it exits the case. Make sure you get some lube on the inside of the case necks. If the expander ball is oversize it can cause issues with bullet setback/retention. You can carefully polish/sand it down in a drill if necessary to reduce the amount of expansion it performs and increase neck tension.

 

[GLOOB]

Since it's an autoloader, I'd check/trim every time. You don't know what pickup is going to sneak into your pile.

I'd also pick up a primer pocket reaming hand tool for 10 bucks. Even if you don't purchase once-fired brass, you're bound to pick up some strays, and you aren't going to throw them away, are you?

Also, you will need a chamfer tool to remove the burr left by most trimming methods.

Tips:
1. Lubing: The spray lube and plastic bag method I picked up from this forum in da bomb. Put 50-100 cases in a plastic bag. Put 2-3 pumps of spray lube in there. And roll them around for a couple minutes. Dump em in a bin and let the carrier evaporate for a few minutes before sizing.

Inside neck lube optional for me. I don't do it.

2. Sizing. Make sure your die is screwed down correctly. Look to see that the shellholder is making contact with the die at the top of the stroke.

 

[1KPerDay]

Tips:
1. Lubing: The spray lube and plastic bag method I picked up from this forum in da bomb. Put 50-100 cases in a plastic bag. Put 2-3 pumps of spray lube in there. And roll them around for a couple minutes. Dump em in a bin and let the carrier evaporate for a few minutes before sizing.

Inside neck lube optional for me. I don't do it.

To the OP: FWIW this is what happened to me using Hornady One-Shot (spray lube) as directed.



YMMV. This was .30-06, though. With .223 you may be fine as GLOOB has noted.

 

[FROGO207]

Using ENOUGH spray lube AND letting it dry completely will stop the problem completely IMHO. The baggie idea works well for distributing the lube. FWIW the ready to size state of the brass is when it feels sticky/greasy when rolled in the fingers. If not----it WILL stick in the die.