New to Reloading / A few Questions

[crew590]

Hey all,

I'm am thinking about taking up reloading as a way to spend some of my free time and maybe save some money in the process. I haven't actually bought anything that I need to start yet, but I had a few questions on the different reloading presses. The calibers I am planning on reloading are 40 S&W, 38 SPL and maybe .223. I checked out a local store here in town and they suggested either a Dillon 550 or 650. The gentleman I spoke with said that these presses could use any of the other company's dies, but I seem to recall a thread on here that stated that Dillon could only use their own dies.

Also, is there any advantage to manual indexing (semi-automated?) vs fully automated or is it personal preference?

One more thing, if anyone has any suggestion on different presses I am open to ideas.

Thanks,

Jay

 

[presspuller]

Since I don't have a Dillon I don't know about their dies.
There is a LOT of ways to get into reloading cheaper than going with Dillon to start with.
The only advantage that I know of on a manual indexing vs. automated is the automated is the weak link in most presses and is the first thing to go south. With manual indexing it just cuts out the fuss.
Unless your planning on loading a LOT a turret press would be cheaper to get into than a progressive.
Lee will be the cheapest to get started with but a lot of folks have a problem with them in the quailty department.(including me)
RCBS is probably the next popular with a killer customer service. Cost more but it may be worth it to you.

 

[creekwalker]

The Dillon 550B & 650 for the most part use any standard newer dies. The Dillon Sq. Deal B is the only press using Dillon only dies. The dillon 550B is a four staion manualy indexing press with the 650 being a 5 station auto indexing press.
Of the two options I feel either will work, while some believe the 650 is easier for a novice to start with as the potential for an un charged or over charged case is lower. I think thats a crock as in the end it's the user who should inspect his case's as they cycle through.
Other's will offer other press options, I'll only say take the time you need to decide. I've grown to like the Dillon progressive press product line after using another brand for many years.

cw

 

[kestak]

Greetings,

I am a newbie too in reloading and I use a Dillon 550B since 3 months. I had a lot of questions and I got a lot of answers. Here is MY situation, maybe you will connect with some of it:

I bought the Dillon 550B with the "must have" from brian enos. I bought also 2 large and 2 small primers tubes. I bought a digital scale, a primer flip tray, a media/brass separator and a brass tumbler.

My wife and I shoot 2-3 times a week, 200 rounds per time. it is about 2000rounds per months. We shoot .45, 9mm, 357 magnum and 44 magnum.

It took me a whole Saturday to install and get used to my Dillon 550B (adjust, change caliber, get the feel of the stoke, etc).

I can produce about 250 rounds per hour in .45 and 9mm and 150 rounds per hour for the .357mag and 44mag. I simply take more care with those costly rounds...

Operating the press efficiently took me a good 3 weeks. I was constantly spending my time to check the primer setting, the powder weight, the bullet seating. Now I still check it, but a lot less often. For the primer setting, the feel is almost enough to catch small problems.

Sometimes I wish I would have bought a faster press because I would prefer to spend less hours at the press. Right now, it is still new stuff and it is fun. but I wonder if in one year, I would not prefer to spend that time watching TV. Maybe in a few years, i'll buy another model. For now, the investment needs to be amortized...hehehehehe

Check the videos on Youtube, just type Dillon 550B and a guy made a a few videos explaining how it works. It is nicely done.

Thank you

 

[strat81]

I bought the Dillon 550B

I can produce about 250 rounds per hour in .45 and 9mm and 150 rounds per hour for the .357mag and 44mag.

Sometimes I wish I would have bought a faster press because I would prefer to spend less hours at the press.

Kestak, I don't own a Blue Press, but a buddy has a 550 and I have seen him crank out way more than 250/150 per hour of 223. He's probably running close to double that. Before you even consider a new press, get proficient with the 550. It's a good press and the speed will come.

 

[Grandpa Shooter]

I started with a Lee, used a Rock Chucker for rifle, and ended up with a 550B. It will make more rounds in an hour than you will care to build in that time. Some of the older die sets aren't long enough to screw into the Dillon tool head and function properly, so I suggest getting some newer dies.

As in any hand me down company, when the original owner, Mike, turned the company over to his son, it changed direction somewhat. They do not seem to be as interested in the Dillon Precision as they are Dillon Aero. Quality control is not what it used to be. They are still a good company and make quality products, just not as focused as Mike was.

You might want to consider the Square Deal for pistol rounds and buy the rifle ammo until you get enough to make worth reloading. Rifle re-loading is a painstaking process and not really worth it for jusk plinking ammo.

All of the above is my perspective and should not be used as a determining factor in your decision. You have to live with it, I don't.

 

[marlin1888]

Crew590,

You didn't mention how many rounds you want to reload. Unless you are looking at a large amount, I would suggest a single stage or turret press to get the feel for reloading. I have seen a number o reloaders give up because they bought "too much press" to start with (which in turn also costs more money). You can get into a good quality single stage kit (RCBS or Lyman) for about $250. Even if you buy a progressive press later, the items in the original kit can still prove useful (like the digital scale, case trimmer, and press itself which is very sturdy for experiments where you might need more physical force .. like modifying the brass). Also, with some practice a turret head press can be used pretty fast.

Dillon does make some excellent equipment, and if you are planning to reload high volume, then they would be a great choice.

Good luck and enjoy the hobby!

 

[kestak]

Greetings,

Strat81: You are right. Maybe I was not clear enough when I said I am new to reloading, so I am VERY careful when I produce my rounds. I am still at the stage of quality check and not yet at quantity check. I believe I can crank up another 100 rounds per hour with my 550B, but not much more. But we'll see in one year what I can do...

 

[crew590]

You didn't mention how many rounds you want to reload.

Sorry about that guys. As to a total per month I am still working on that, but I plan on about 2 - 3 hours a day 3 - 4 times a week or something like that. I just have alot of free time now and this will (hopefully) help pass the time (and save a little money).

Jay

 

[Canuck-IL]

I disagree with the "start w a single or turret" notion ... I did that 5 years ago, it took all of 3 weeks to wish I'd bought the progressive right off.

It's not rocket science - it is care and attention to detail. You can operate a progressive with one shell at a time until you're comfortable. As to progressives being fragile - HA! (I omit Lee products in that summary).

As to the only advantage to a progressive being the automated indexing - don't belittle that advantage!! It sure cuts down the odds of a double charge.

As to presses, after a LOT of shopping and price vs feature comparisons, I decided on the Hornady L'n'L ... better design engineering than the Dillons, cheaper to swap calibers, the quick removal bushing design for the dies is very convenient and their service is as good as Dillon's, for the little I've used it...free and quickly mailed pieces - a powder tube I cracked and a decapper pin. Search around here for Hornady and read a few threads.

Reloading is fun, relaxing, not difficult to learn, produces better ammo for a lower price .... etc.
/Bryan

 

[Jim Watson]

As to the learning process, you should know that you can run one round at a time through the 550 until you understand what is going on at each station and have everything adjusted right. The primer feed will just draw back the primer if there is no case to seat it in and the powder measure is case actuated so it will not spill powder if there is not a shell there to catch it. My gunsmith has taught several new reloaders that way.
You will likely have to readjust the powder measure going from single round to progressive operation, but that is about it.

 

[Shooters Plus]

You can not go wrong with either of the presses you mentioned and as others has stated, yes you can use other dies in 7/8" (I believe) in your Dillon.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

ETA: Jim, your post count kinda scares me this evening on Halloween.

Jim Watson
Senior Member
Join Date: 12-24-02
Posts: 6,660

 

[RustyFN]

Of the two options I feel either will work, while some believe the 650 is easier for a novice to start with as the potential for an un charged or over charged case is lower. I think thats a crock as in the end it's the user who should inspect his case's as they cycle through.

I couldn't agree more. Reloading is serious business and requires one to pay attention. If you can't concentrate one night for some reason the best thing a person can do is walk away from the press for the night. I don't see any reason a person couldn't start on a progressive.

Sorry about that guys. As to a total per month I am still working on that, but I plan on about 2 - 3 hours a day 3 - 4 times a week or something like that. I just have alot of free time now and this will (hopefully) help pass the time (and save a little money).

Jay

I started just to save money and now I spend my time reloading because I enjoy it almost as much as shooting. I think most of us here will fall into that catagory. I am like you in that I have a lot of time to relod and enjoy pulling the handle. I was also on a tight budget so I went with the Lee classic turret. I think it's a great press and low maintenance but Dillon also has great presses, I just couldn't afford one. On the Lee classic turret you will get one finished round after three or four handle pulls, on the Dillon you will get one with every handle pull. On my classic loading 2 to 3 hours 3 or 4 times a week I can load around 1,500 to 2,000 rounds a week. You can imagine how many that would be on a Dillon. You can get into a Lee classic turret for around $180. I load 9mm, 38/357 and 223 on my press. Do some reading and research and try to buy the press that will best fit your needs. You don't want to buy a press and have to upgrade in a month or two.
Rusty

 

[Hawk]

This "starting out with a progressive" stuff seems to be coming up more.

My first metallic reloader was a Dillon SDB. It takes proprietary dies and, in retrospect, is a little "crowded" but the most obvious feature for a new (metallic) reloader with the SDB I find seldom mentioned:

It comes set-up.

By that I mean if you order one for .45 Colt, you'll get an inert .45 Colt round that, if you match the stated components, you can go to town without knowing much about the arcane art of die adjustment. You still check, measure and verify but it's nice to have the thing mostly ready to go.

My take on die set-up instructions when new to metallics: they suck. Out loud. They stink on ice. i.e. WTH is "sufficient" crimp if you've never crimped anything? What's a "light" crimp or "heavy"? There's too many relative terms and too few hard numbers to work with even if you had a drawer full of Starrett gear. Stir in trade names like Redding's "profile" crimp and unique stuff like Lee Factory Crimp Dies (abbreviated FCD and bless you if you stumble across a thread early on discussing the relative merits of the beast - you'll go several pages before it becomes clear WTH it is or why you'd want it).

Worse, you'll find people that have been reloading since before the flood that remain confused on taper vs. roll crimps. At that point, it's really nice to know some reloading geek at Dillon dialed in your stuff.

I eventually got a single stage but I remain glad I started with the SDB. The factory adjustments are comforting to us noobs. After 1K or so rounds on the SDB, one's confidence is pumped to where one can deal with the bar-nasty instructions that come with most reloading stuff. Then you can join the color wars and have a grand old time arguing in addition to having fun with a new hobby.

 

[Steve Koski]

I say go cheap.

Buy the cheapest stuff possible, used if possible. Then, if/when you decide to get serious, you can sell it all for a loss and buy decent equipment.

 

[strat81]

My take on die set-up instructions when new to metallics: they suck. Out loud. They stink on ice. i.e. WTH is "sufficient" crimp if you've never crimped anything? What's a "light" crimp or "heavy"?

Very good point! Plus, every piece of equipment has its own set of instructions that kinda, maybe, sometimes tells you how to get it to work with the rest of the setup! Count your lucky stars if you get instructions with pictures. But, those pictures (even the ones in both manuals I have) look like they were taken on Eastman's first roll film camera.

I say go cheap. Buy the cheapest stuff possible, used if possible.

While I understand this to some degree, if you get crap, you'll probably be severely discouraged. Imagine if your first two-wheeler had a chain that popped off every 30 feet. You probably wouldn't want to use it very much.

 

[Hawk]

I say go cheap.

Buy the cheapest stuff possible, used if possible. Then, if/when you decide to get serious, you can sell it all for a loss and buy decent equipment.

This leaves something to be desired by those of us with limited patience and little in the way of local resources.

I had purchased an RCBS "Kit" with the "Partner" press about 4 years ago. My dealer sold me a set of dies at the same time.

The handle wouldn't fit in the press and the primer catcher thingamajig didn't fit either. I checked the "stickies" in this forum and it was clear I shouldn't "force" anything. I called RCBS and they were very polite and helpful. They said:

"Glitz gotchamon, dos gyre and gamble in the slithy toves, enh?"

This pretty much mirrored the instructions in the die set - the words appeared to be English but didn't form themselves into anything meaningful - try reading the set-up on a combo seater / crimper if you're curious what I'm talking about. Better yet, get your mom to read it and explain it - previous knowledge of the ritual skews the effect.

4 years later, I come to realize they were asking me if perhaps they had packed Rockchucker parts with the Partner frame. At the time the appropriate action seemed to be to march the frame, handle and primer whatsis to the curb and let the recyclers have them - I did so. I stashed the paraphernalia in case I got nuts later and wrote off reloading as the province of mossbacks with their own language.

Nary a round was produced.

Several years later I got the SDB and made 1000 rounds that actually went where I aimed them. Admittedly, the scale and other gizmos came in very handy indeed. I haven't used the uniflow yet but it's pretty and its day will surely come.

Big difference.

Starting cheap may work for some. For others it'll be like buying a composite amphibian kit plane for your first vehicle.

 

[WNTFW]

I'm a newbie too. I did shotshells before. I have been around pistol & bottleneck rifle reloading just never actually did it. They are 3 different species. Rifle has more case prep. Compared to shotgun & pistol, rifle reloading seems complex.
If there is a store near you stocking the presses go have a look.
I just bought a 550B on Saturday. We went to Cabelas, then to an independent dealer (Dillon & Lee presses), then back to Cabelas (RCBS, Lee Hornady). Spent about $800 on press, manual, tools & components. I already had dial caliper & scale. You could easily drop a thousand dollars. I went with 1 caliber to start with cause I knew I'd be a spending more money on other items. I few items were not in stock or could wait.
I bought some new brass as well a case prep tools for spent brass. Don't forget that all those items will add up. Don't forget case guages. You'll end up needing other things also - like a bench to mount the press. Cronograph, spotting scope & benchrest items also end up on a list.
I have been setting it up when I get a few minutes throughout the day. First thing was read instructions that came with everything. After spending the time to look at in depth & 'fool' with it a lot of things make way more sense. (see Jim Watson post) Setup was easy. I got the resizer adjusted fairly quickly. I found it easy to seat the bullet to the right depth.
I'm pretty impressed with the 550B in general. From the build quality to the way things work. The extra money spent is already justified to me. That is from a volume driven pistol caliber perspective. At first I thought the 550B is wasted on bottleneck rifle. For volume .223 semi auto I'm already seeing where it will work. I have a borrowed single stage & that has a place also. I'll probably get a RCBS Rockchucker for low round count bolt guns. The downside of a 550B is price. Dillon Dies are not the cheapest either.
Get ABC's of Reloading if you want to read about some of the safety aspects of reloading. Get a manual like Lyman 48th & start figuring what powder primer bullet cause the guy at the store may not have a clue. Start making a list of all the items you need. That way you'll have everything you need & a better idea on total cost.
Later,
WNTFW

 

[crew590]

I thinks that I will try and save up for the 550, but in the meantime I've come up with another question. I thought I would try and buy some components while I save for the press and I realized I don't really know the difference between small and large pistol/rifle primers. :banghead: Could someone help me out on that please. Looking for the right type of primers for 40 S&W, .38 SPL and .223 as the calibers mentioned in the first post.

Thanks again,

Jay

 

[strat81]

I realized I don't really know the difference between small and large pistol/rifle primers. Could someone help me out on that please. Looking for the right type of primers for 40 S&W, .38 SPL and .223 as the calibers mentioned in the first post.

Primers for metallic cartridges come in 3 sizes: small, large, and .50 BMG. Primers also have specific types of guns they go in, pistol and rifle. And those types come in two strengths: regular and magnum.

A reloading manual will tell you what kind of primer you need. The pistol rounds you mentioned use small regular pistol primer and the .223 uses a small regular rifle primer. There are exceptions to these rules. For example, if you're loading .223 for an AR (or semi-auto with a free floating firing pin), many folks recommend CCI #41 Small Rifle Military Primers which are considered a magnum primer but are also harder and less prone to slam fires.

In the meantime, while you are saving, buy a quality reloading manual from Lee, Hornady, Speer, or Lyman. These books provide load data plus they outline the entire reloading process for rifle and pistol. They answer these weird questions plus stuff you never even thought about.

 

[WNTFW]

I'd buy the books first. They will have the info on the primers in with loads. You'll be better off with the knowledge. Diameters are different and height is different. This makes up the large/small & rifle/pistol. .223 uses small rifle primers. I'll let you figure out the others.
You can start collecting range brass now. However range brass is an unkown & you will need to be able to determine if it is safe to reload. That is also covered in the ABC's of reloading. I started picking up range brass & troubleshooting the spent brass. Some had high primers & others had rifling marks on their necks. Others had evidence of not sealing. Some had splits or other defects that made them unsafe. On .223 most of it was good & at or exceeding max length. You can't trim till you resize. You shouldn't resize till you clean. Without a press you can't do too much. Lee makes some cheap presses & you need to get a scale any way. Lee even makes a hand press in the $20 dollar range. That may be a way to test the water. Reloading is not for everyone. There is enough unused equipment out there to prove that.
Maybe you could get a tumbler & start prepping your pistol brass. Oh & get a book - I have a borrowed copy of the ABC's of reloading. Check your library, buy one, or go read a chapter or 2 at the book store.
Even if you have someone to teach you buy a book. There are a lot of things said that can be taken out of context. "Carbide dies don't need lube" is one. The employee/reloader was not thinking about case lube when I made my purchase. I knew I needed it & even had a clue about which one I wanted to try first.
Look at some of the recurring post on any reloading forum & you'll notice a theme.
Later,
WNTFW

 

[crew590]

In the meantime, while you are saving, buy a quality reloading manual from Lee, Hornady, Speer, or Lyman. These books provide load data plus they outline the entire reloading process for rifle and pistol.

I did pick up a copy of Hornady's reloading manual 7th edition today, but haven't had the chance to really read into it yet.

Maybe you could get a tumbler & start prepping your pistol brass.

When I have the funds that is what I plan on doing. I figure get all the basics while setting aside money for the press.

Jay

 

[SilentArmy]

Here are some encouraging figures for a new reloader based on a few hrs of last night! I loaded 100 rounds of .50 Beowulf for my latest AR build and when I got through with a two hour ordeal (as I was using my 16 yr old Lee classic on a four die process!) I did some number crunching and determined that I had built this ammo for $.83-.99/round depending on bullet type and Using Brand new brass! This is a pretty substantial savings over the $1.60/shot factory ammo cost! I have seen alot of posted figures on peoples savings and that alone should start you loading! I would suggest reading up on the process and in the meantime buying some components (bullets, Primers, Powder) as prices are going wild! I loaded some .45 auto on the 650 last night as well and I took notice of the price tag on one primer box of $15.99/box of 1000! The last box I bought a few weeks ago to stock up was about $24! Bullet prices havr increased immensely for example, the same box of 50 SPEER Gold Dot .50 cal that cost me $10.95 last august is now $18.95! Time to stock up on components for building ammo later is certainly now!

 

[Wildfire]

Lots OF Help.

Looks like you getting lots of help here. so here is my 2 cents .
By no means knocking any thing else.
I have used RCBS for over 25 years now. Still do on all rifles.
The Dillion SD- B in .45acp is fast. Came out of the box darn near ready to load on and Has always worked well. With any progressive you must keep an eye on things. Most reloading goofs happen with progressive loaders. Even with all of their safety features. Most common is a missed primer. They make an alarm that alerts you when empty. That SD- B didn't cost that much (in my opinion) so I would have one for each handgun cal. And single stage the
.223...... But that only my opinion. Have fun with what ever you get.
Keep an eye on the powder drop in any progressive. Stuck bullets are no fun.
We shot IPSC and that Dillion made over 500 rounds / hour with 2 of us on it.
If you go too fast the powder will fly out of the case's as the plate turns.