New wheel gun for the Wife to use

[Titan6]

This last go around with snipers on the highway in our neck of the woods has convinced the wife to get a gun to carry 24/7 rather than just keeping it in the car. Now I know that having a revolver wouldn't have helped in that situation any but she is more worried that kids like that live in our area. Where there is one there will be others. Normally I would go with her and help her pick one out but I will be out of town for another say... 8 months... and she wants to get it now.

She will not use an auto so most of my carry guns are worthless to her. Her normal gun is a 4" Colt Python with Pachmeyer grips that she is dead on accurate with (and I mean in the 10 ring most every time) at 25 meters. She dosen't carry the Colt all the time because she says it is too big and heavy and wants a very light revolver in .357. We will probably down load the chambers to .38 if the recoil is too much at .357 but want the superior chamber strength of the .357.

I guess what I am asking is what is the smallest, most light .357 that has good accuracy at 25 meters. We are not thinking derringers either, slim would be helpful, with five in the chamber suffcient. While I am not rich Money is not a big issue either. I am thinking under $1200.

Edit to Add: I normally only buy US made guns. I own a few foreign made ones but these are very few.

 

[springmom]

Hm. Just as an aside, why won't she use a semiauto? Not that it matters; just curious.

First off, invite her to join us on this forum. I'd love to have another woman on here to talk to (sorry, guys )

American made, small, .357? I'm thinking a Ruger SP101. I don't know that I'd call it "slim" exactly, but it's better than my m66-3 .357, for sure.

She *could* get a S&W J-frame in one of the alloys, but I have one in .38spl and a lively +P round out of that is enough, thanks. I can shoot about 20 of them before I need to switch to my 66-3. A .357 out of that is easier to take than a +P .38 out of my m37.

OTOH, it is true that my little snubbie just *disappears* into my waistband. It is far and away the most easily concealable gun I've ever owned, including a Bersa .380.

She'll be best off trying out an SP and a J-frame if there's a range around that rents them. Or maybe someone here on the board could take her shooting with theirs. If you're comfortable posting what area of what state your home is, someone might be able to do something like that.

And tell her to sign up over here!

Springmom

 

[RobertFBurnett]

Sorry to hear about the snipers...for a second there I thought you lived in L.A.

I personally love S&Ws so most of the J-Frames would be probably about as smooth as that Colt, but the Ruger SP101 is a fine weapon. The female range manager at my local indoor range really likes her S&W 686 w/ 2.5"bbl though too.

Another thing is if you have not already check out this website: http://www.corneredcat.com I believe it is ran by a forum member and impressed me with great articles on considerations for the woman shooter.

My Buck-0-5

RFB

 

[easyrider604]

Ditto...

American made, small, .357? I'm thinking a Ruger SP101.....
She'll be best off trying out an SP and a J-frame if there's a range around that rents them.

While I am not rich Money is not a big issue either. I am thinking under $1200

.

Her normal gun is a 4" Colt Python with Pachmeyer grips that she is dead on accurate with (and I mean in the 10 ring most every time) at 25 meters.

Agree 100% on the SP101.

1. People should practice regularly with their CCW. The SP is strong and durable enough for regular practice with .38 spl +p or full house .357 magnum if so inclined.

2. Its weight disadvantage is made up for by much greater durability which is necessary to do Item 1 above , IMO.

3. The SP101 will not deliver close to the Python's groups, but should be accurate enough. If not, $1,200 may buy you the services of a competent gunsmith who can make that SP as accurate as an SP deserves to be.

4. If the SP101 had to be drawn and fired in an emergency situation, and Item 1 and 3 above were done, one or two well-placed shots of .357 magnum should do the job of stopping the BG from continuing his evil plans.

Good luck

 

[Brian Williams]

Since she is that accurate, get a nice S&W 60 or 36. A S&W 60-4 is a great gun and very accurate, It has adjustable sights and can be tuned to a nice trigger pull. Also look at a Colt Detective special or the aluminum Agent.

 

[Dismantler]

I am not a big fan of recoil in small guns. I carry a S&W 442 (hammerless) Airweight loaded with wadcutters. They are less powerful than standard .38's, but I am worried about overpenetration in built-up areas. And I have good control of the gun.

It is amazing to me how much difference in feel there is between the Model 36 and the Airweights after hours of carry. The Model 36 feels like an anvil compared to the Airweight.

An Airweight with 158 gr. SWC ammo may be a good combo. Couple of Bianchi Speed Strips...

 

[Titan6]

Hm. Just as an aside, why won't she use a semiauto? Not that it matters; just curious.

She does not like them. As an aside if you can explain to me a hundred words or less why women "like" or "do not like" a thing in a logical manner, well then please post it as men the world over would like to know.

First off, invite her to join us on this forum. I'd love to have another woman on here to talk to

She has seen and occasionally looks at the but as she has been what amounts to a single mom for the better part of six months now with a good sized place to take care of and the kids involved in sports, scouting, family, school she really does not have much free time. Me on the other hand when I am not on missions have nothing but time to kill.... I can't wait to get home.

She'll be best off trying out an SP and a J-frame if there's a range around that rents them. Or maybe someone here on the board could take her shooting with theirs. If you're comfortable posting what area of what state your home is, someone might be able to do something like that.

We live in Virginia. At last count we had nine THR members living within 10 miles of our home. We shoot on our own land and occasionally have a member or two over to shoot as well (along with family and other friends). Just about everybody I have met in person on this board has been friendly. A very nice place indeed.

Sorry to hear about the snipers

Well not really snipers, poor choice of words on my part, just those stupid kids with guns. Where there is one there is two, where there is three or four there are many more.

Most seem to vote for the SP101 with recommendations for the Smiths. I am not so sure she would go for a hammerless revolver but it is a good idea. Even though it has advantages she is very conservative in her views on guns and only likes certain types. Thanks everybody, I will pass it along, I think she has enough to go shopping on.

 

[Matt-man]

Since you mentioned you are looking for max accuracy from a small wheelgun, I thought I'd point out Hamilton Bowen's replacement sights for J-frames. He can also put them on SP101s. More info here (at the bottom), here, and here.

 

[BikerRN]

Since the Python is too big and heavy according to her I would go with a 3" Ruger SP101.

I don't recommend any J-Frame S&W .357 Magnum, and I've had a few. As I get older I find that I like "softer" shooting guns in the small guns. I don't mind the recoil in my 686 with a 5" tube, nor in my GP100 with a 3" barrel. I'm also not a fan of loading 38 Specials in a .357 Magnum.

Today I'm carrying a 3" Ruger GP100, loaded with 125 Grain JHP's and a S&W 442 loaded with the Gold Dot "Short Barrel Load".

BikerRN

 

[Owen Meany]

No offense to the Ruger SP101 fans, but with regard to size - and therefore concealability and ease of carry - the SP101 belongs to a different, larger class of firearms than the J-frames do. This is particularly true considering the grip of the SP101, which is significantly taller than the J's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression from the OP's post that the priority in this case is a gun that the woman will have with her constantly. Many people blithely cite the recoil-taming characteristics of the Ruger's additional weight and bulk as though exchanging the steel J-frame's smaller size and less weight for the Ruger's increased controllability is a fair trade. But it isn't; the foremost consideration has to be the factor(s) that affect what the OP stated is important here, which is the "carryability " of the gun.

It's up to your wife to decide exactly how much weight and bulk she is willing to carry daily, and then choose the largest and heaviest gun that falls within those limits. If she's fine with the Ruger, great; but I think she might only realize that she should have gone with a J-frame after she's tried carrying the Ruger daily for a few weeks or months.

I believe the Smith & Wesson 640 - or 60 or 649, depending on which frame style you prefer - is the ideal combination of small size, decent weight and potent chambering.

The OP said:

We will probably down load the chambers to .38 if the recoil is too much at .357 but want the superior chamber strength of the .357.

Which is exactly why I am a big fan of the S&W 640 .357. This superb all-steel snub revolver can handle whatever .357 loads you want to put through it (so long as you can handle them ), but in my mind it really comes into its own when stoked with warm .38 +Ps. Loaded this way, it makes for a reasonably powerful gun that is still very controllable in rapid fire.

I know that you might hesitate to sacrifice .357 power for the relatively mild .38 Special +P, but to me it's a no-brainer. I really don't think the .357 Magnum is a smart choice for a small snub, either the J-frame OR the SP101. I know that it's popular to poo-poo the caveats that are occasionally offered about the flash and blast of Magnum loads out of a short-barreled gun by saying "In the stress and adrenaline of a confrontation, you'll never notice the report or the recoil."

Personally, I do not subscribe to this school of thought. Thankfully, I've never been in an armed altercation where shots were fired, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to intentionally handicap myself by dismissing the issue of Magnum noise and recoil. The disorienting effect of lighting off a .357 next to your head with no protection is extreme. The last thing I want to do is find out under the worst possible circumstances that setting off a grenade next to your head during a fight really isn't such a big help to your ability to get shots on target quickly. Gunshots - any gunshots - without earmuffs are bad enough, without choosing to subject yourself to the granddaddy of them all. I'll stick with the .38 and go for rapid shot placement over the extra 200 fps or so that you gain with the .357 out of a snubby, depending on the load used.

As for the often-voiced reluctance of many people to "fire .38 Specials in a gun built for the .357 Magnum", I have no idea what is responsible for this. Must be some mental hang-up having to do with not using the gun to its "full potential" or something. Personally, I love having a strong gun built to take more punishment that I'm actually subjecting it to. When I shoot mild loads out of gun built to take .357, I'm not gritting my teeth, thinking, "Geez, if only I was a real man, I could be launching fire and brimstone out of this thing." Rather, I'm enjoying the ability that those "mild" +P loads give me to put them exactly where I want them, quickly. Nothing not to love about that.

Now, if it were a choice between shooting .22 LR out of the revolver versus the .357, naturally I'd opt for the .357 and just pray I'd never have to fire the gun without earmuffs (not that the .38 is any picnic, either, but still a big difference).

As for the durability issue? It's mentioned so often in connection with the SP101 that it just has to be true, doesn't it? At least many people seem to think it is, and seem confident in mentioning it, perhaps without thinking that doing so might scare people away from some really good guns that would likely never be subjected to the kind of use required to make durability an issue. When I hear the "durability" of the Ruger extolled, I have this picture in my mind of legions of uninformed shooters flocking to the Ruger, with frightening images in their minds of Smiths experiencing a host of problems from being "shot loose" or downright broken after only a few rounds.

Though I shoot .38 +Ps through the 640, I know that others shoot .357 through the steel Js. I haven't heard any stories yet about breakage problems. I really believe that there is a better chance of my waking up tomorrow morning to find palm trees growing in my back yard (I'm up north ) than hearing a reliable account of a S&W Model 60/649/640 being shot to death. Yes, if you plan on shooting ten of thousands of Magnum loads through it, then maybe. But I'd still doubt it, actually. Or at least doubt that the Ruger would be any better off than the Smith after such an ordeal.

I just can't see the guns' durability as a real-world consideration. Both the S&W and Ruger are world-class firearms that are well up to the task. Whatever considerations affect your choice, I don't think durability should be one of them.

Just my 10 cents or so.

 

[BlindJustice]

WIth your budget

Here's some options from Smith & Wesson
The Night Guard line has
Stainless Steel Cylinder
Scandium Frame
Cylinder & SLide Extreme Duty fixed rear with front Tritium Dot
Pachmary Grips
All have 2.5" Bbl. and Black overall finishh

N-Frames
329NG 6 shot .44 Mag
327NG 8 shot .357 Mag
325NG 6 shot .45 ACP
& full moon clips fast reload
L Frame
396 5 shot .44 Special
386 NG 7 shot .357 Mag. 24.5 oz
K-Frame
315NG 6 shot .38 SPecial 24 oz
Link to the entire Nightguard line

Personally I think the 325NG & 396NG
make the best shooters being non-Magnum
with the 2.5" Bbl. in the N & L frame offerings.
BUt the 315NG is imho smaller in cylinder dia. and
shortest at 7" O.A.L.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...1&parent_category_rn=15703&top_category=15703

Non-Night Guard offerings
The Medium K-frame options:
686 2.5" Bbl. .357 Mag. 6 shot & 7 shot avail.
But it's 35 oz w/Stainless Steel frame & Cylinder

The J-frame
five shot in .38 Spcl +P or .358 Mag
MOdel 60 .357 Mag 3" Bbl. 24 oz
I have the above aka Chief's Special It's
Stainless Steel, frame & Cyllinder with Adjustable rear sight.
Defense load: ;38 SPcl +P 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot.
There are several other Model 60 with 2 1/4" Bbl. as
well as the 60 LS aka ladysmith with grips in wood and
shaped for women's smaller palms

640 .357 Mag. 2 1/4" Bbl. 23 oz.
Called Hammerless - it has a hammer but it is shrouded
so that it is Double Action Only
The same gun in Alloy is the 642 but due to the
ALloy it is .38 Special +P rated not .357 Mag


340PD .357 Mag*/.38 Spcl +P
Hammerless llike the 640 but
1 7/8" Bbl, & only 12 oz with Scandium Frame & Titanium cylinder
* Note" A gun writer reviewing a similiar J-frame with the
same Titanium cylinder said S&W advises .357 Mag no heavier
than 125 gr. bullets, or a heavier load may bulge the cylinder


My opinion 386NG if set on .357 Mag.

I would also give the 315NG a look, personally, since I
don't have a centerfire K-frame and imho the K-frame
is the best out of the box S&W Double Action trigger that
they mak - it was the first one in 1899 and the bigger and
the bigger ones just seem to have more mass duh, less feel.

But really the one I'd get for me is the 325NG
the shorter cases are easy to load/extract in full moon
clips I'm a .45 ACP nutter.

Note with the 3" Mdl 60 it has a full length extractor rod,
whereas some of the really short Bbl. snubbies might not
give a full stroke for extracting empties.

She doesn't need to get anything that needs to be slicked up by
a gunsmith which means she wouldn't have the gun.

Happy shopping

.

 

[BlindJustice]

+++++!1 for Owen Meaney's comments

We aren't supposed to be recmmending OUR
favorite gun we'd get for ourselves but what would
a woman want for 24/7 carry, but still be controllable
for accuracy & repeat shots if need be.

For the record the SP101 I believe is in the 28 oz range.

FWIW the HD/SD .38 +P load I mention I think is rated @
1,000 FPS for my 3 inch Bbl. SPeer also has a new offering
for short barreled snubbies with less muzzle flash and the
135 gr. bullet is designed for the approx.900 fps out of
a 2 1/4" Bbl. I have yet to find any of this ammo.

I do have some .38 SPecial 125 gr. Hornady XTP JHPs that
are rated for 1,000 FPS out of a 4" BBl. and they are
about the same recoil/muzzle flash as the SPeer .38 +P
125 gr. GD JHps.

I have a 686P 4" Bbl. it weighs 39 oz. and firing some
WW 125 gr. JHPs @ 1400 FPS - my shooting partner in
the next lane at the range said it looked like a 2.5 foot
lightening bolt.... not a fun day at the range, I have tried
a different brand of .357 mag 125 gr. and 158 gr. and there
was less muzzle flash but still you knew it was magnum ammo.
Then I tried the +P .38 Special at it and that is what it will be
loaded with much better recovery for double taps etc.

Hey, that's just me, my favorite handguns in order are

S&W 1911 then the 625 5" Bbl. both in .45 ACP nice subsonic
boomer and bullet weight/diameter
then the 617 .22 LR it's FUN....
then the Model 60 - it's different with it's coil main spring
but I hardly ever fire it single action it invites Double action
firing.

Food for thought.

 

[Jim March]

My first piece of advice: start by deciding the carry method used! That will give you some clue as to what weight/size class gun you can deal with.

I think your wife's situation is why the Ruger SP101 in 327Federal was made. See my comments here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=349567&page=2

If she's going to fling ammo around in the 350/400ft/lb energy class, why not have six on tap instead of five?

 

[BlindJustice]

Let's see...


L-frame S&W 386 NG 7 shot .38+P/.357 Mag.24.5 oz
2.5" Bbl. 7 5/8" O.A.L . 24.5 oz.
K-frame S&W 315 NG 6 shot .38 +P 24 oz
2.5" Bbl. 7: O.A.L 24. oz
tween K & J SP101 6 shot .38+P/.357 Mag. 28.5 oz.
3 1/16" Bbl.. 8" O.A.L. 27 oz.
J-Frame S&W 60 5 shot .38+P/.357 Mag
3"1/16" Bbl. 7.5" O.A.L. 24 oz
or 2 1/8" 6 5/8" O.A.L. 22.5 oz


Gee, those NIght Guards are looking better and better

I think the O.P. and wife are making a good decision in
wanting something chambered for .357 Mag since the
wife already has this ammo around.... but the .38 +P is a
viable alternative expecially in the 6 shot 315 NG. &
an inch shorter than the SP101.
as well as the Night GUards having same make
Pachmary grips.

 

[20nickels]

What does she want to carry?

 

[Titan6]

What does she want to carry?

She does not know for sure. Hence the ideas thread. Surprisingly she is looking into the hammerless lightweights also. As a regular guitar player and former weight lifter she has very good hand strength and dexterity so this may be doable. I told her to make sure she shoot whatever first.

 

[Virginian]

Tell her to look at a Taurus 605 3" or 2-1/2"

 

[Trader]

Smith & Wesson model 60 or a Ruger SP101. I would load with (for your wife )
Remington .38 +P 158 gr. semi wadcutter hollow point ammo.

 

[philvis]

Titan,

Sent you a PM. May be able to help.

 

[Guillermo]

If she is going to carry it in a concealed carry purse I would go with the flow and recommend the Ruger SP101. Great revolver but kind of “midsized”. It is a little hard to conceal on your person.
If she wears a coat and can keep it on a belt I would go with the J frame Smith or a Colt detective special. Of the two I prefer the Colt but both are outstanding.

 

[Piedmont Plinker]

Try the new Smith & Wesson Model 315 Night Guard. Six-shot, 24 oz .38 special.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have to agree with those who suggested a Stainless Steel S&W J frame. IMO, any of the .357 Magnum J frames will make a good carry for your wife.

Have her look at a Model 60, Model 640 or Model 649 and I'm sure one of them will make her very happy. They are not the "lightest" revolvers made but those S&W 12 oz. Airlite Magnums are just way too light to make a good carry revolver if you want to shoot Magnum rounds. The Stainless revolvers are only 21.5 oz. to 23 oz. and are manageable when shooting Magnum rounds.

 

[BlindJustice]

the 640 "Hammerliess" or Model 60 with 5-shot cylinder the
speedloader to get is the Safariland Comp-I it holds the rounds
and has a simple push button to release the rounds after inserted.

I believe from the pictures on the S&W web site the 640 and 60
both have the wrap around grip which is a bit bigger than the
'boot' J-frame grips but smaller than the SP-101 grips

and let's remember this is a woman's hands and their palms
as well as fingers are smaller than us guys. We don't have the same
reference points.

I do recommend whatever she gets have it chambered in the same as
her Python so she doesn't grab the wrong ammo.

OH, if she thinks she wants a strong side carry on the belt at times, Milt Sparks makes a model #PMK that was desgned by Tony K. for his wife thus
it is named for her initials They will make them for revolvers up to a
bbl. length of 4" but when you order you tell em exactly what you have and
they build it custom to fit. But that is in the future... order a MIlt SParks
and it's a 6 month wait, but worth it.

 

[Titan6]

And the winning revolver is the Kimber CC II in .45 w/ 3" barrel

Yep, after months of shopping and shooting various types of guns including shooting her father's Kimber the choosen was a nice semi-automatic, her first semi-automatic of any kind. But that was not the best part....

She called me five times today as she was finalizing the decision process and making arrangements.... nearly an hour on the phone as she told me how excited she was about her new gun...

On the second call I said I had to to go take care of something and she said; "I am not boring you with all this gun talk I am?" You can't buy love like that....

 

[Elvishead]

Although I own a SP101 3 1/6" .357. If the requirement is up 25 meters, I think the S&W Model 60 3" With High vise sights would way out do the Ruger at 25 yards.

Revolvers with fixed sights as the my Ruger SP101 and my S&W 638 38 Bodyguard with fixed sights are very challenging to shoot past 15 yards, and I practice to 25 yards with them.