New York or Texas Reloads

[bushmaster1313]

I saw a post awhile back about New York reloads, and some said they should be called Texas reloads.

Either way, these are fun to collect and shoot, but I can't carry either until I leave New Jersey.

 

[dogtown tom]

I've lived in Texas for twenty three years and have never heard of a "Texas reload".......and as I just Googled the term apparently no one else has either

I used to despise the Bodyguard models from Smith until about four years ago. Now they are one of my favorite S&W designs. I have both a Model 38 Airweight and the 49.

 

[GRIZ22]

Never heard the term Texas reload either.

While popularized in modern times by NYPD the concept is not a new idea. In the days of single shot pistols many cavalry solders carried 3, 4 or more pistols as they were slow to reload. Many times there were holsters on the pommel of the saddle. This carried over when revolvers started to be used.

 

[Rexster]

Perhaps the "Texas reload" can be blamed on me. So many seemed to think that because an NYPD LEO and a NE gunwriter coined the term "NY reload," that it was NYPD LEOs who invented the practice of carrying two revolvers. I have attempted to set the record straight quite a few times, by pointing out that Texas Rangers were carrying pair of Colt Patersons, Dragoons, and Walkers as far back as the 1830s/1840s, and the practice of carrying multiple handguns lasted into the cartridge era.

I have, therefore, referred to my multiple SP101 revolvers as Texas reloads. I am not trying to coin a new term, nor trying to demean the term "NY reload." Indeed, Jim Cirillo, the subject of the Mas Ayoob article that started the popularity of the "NY reload" term, is one of my personal heroes.

I seem to remember Chicago LEOs being known for toting two handguns, from 'way back, too, so it is not just Texians and Texans who carried on the practice. (Yes, Texian; not a typo.)

Back to the original subject! That is a beautiful pair of J-Snubs! There is something so "just right" about blued steel and wood grips.

 

[SFsc616171]

"Texas Reload", yes.... more old term called "a brace of pistols", when pistols were NOT semi-automatic, but WERE very nice looking, and would put a serious hurt on somebody, flintlock pistols! Pick up the paperback version of the original "Josey Wales" stories, and you will read thus: "2 up front on the saddle, 2 behind on the saddle, 2 on the hips, and one under a shoulder .... a one-man dreadnought", or so paraphrased.

Now, today, on YouTube, you can look up Hickok45's videos, and he demonstrates his depiction of a "New York Reload" (one is none-two is one), with a brace of Colt SAA's, as a Texas Reload.

 

[galena]

Some places a guy carrying two pistol is referred to as an "in case man" in case he misses with his first six shots. Keep shootin'

 

[psyshack]

Please leave and come to a free state if you can. You then can carry your wonderful tools!

 

[daveinvegas]

I've heard it called a NY and a Texas reload. Since I'm from TX originally, I'll go with the Texas reload and the border shift.

I kinda prefer to get another pistol into play rather than reloading until absolutely necessary, especially since I usually carry three guns anyway.

 

[SeekHer]

Excluding the dragoons and cavalry the concept of carrying two guns has been around for quite a while--whether a a double holster rig, a shoulder and hip combo, an hip or shoulder with a ankle holster or just a second pistol in the pocket.

It is/was always faster to change pistols then to reload a cylinder then and the same applies today with changing mags--according to the experts and race guns don't count.

It wasn't started by any police force since most police forces frown upon it now and did then as well...Hell, your off duty piece has to be of a certain size/make/calibre and shooting certain, prescribed, cartridges and your backup piece, if allowed, has to meet the department's standards as well.

In the "Old" days patrolman (foot) carried carried the likes of S&W Model 10 or 14 or 22 (1917 M&P style) 6" barrel, radio car officers a 4" version and plain clothes/detectives the 2" Model 36 or similar...Now, nearly every force is carrying the same handgun within for all its officers--since it's the accountants who control the buying.

In the BPC revolver days it might have been a S&W Model 2 or a Nbr. 3 Shopkeeper, Remington or Colt Pocket pistols, Colt D/A Thunder or S/A Storekeeper.

Those shrouded hammer models were really and truly call "Pocket Pistols" as they were designed not to snag when withdrawing them from your pocket...Then there were the conversions to "Detective" models where they would file off the spur of the hammer for safer pocket carry until S&W started offering "Bobbed or Bobtail" revolvers.

Now it'll just as soon be a semi auto mouse gun, micro model, like the Para Ordnance Hawg .45 ACP or 9mm, Magnum Research Micro Desert Eagle .380 ACP, Springfield Armory 1911-A1 Micro Compact .45 ACP or XD Sub Compact .40S&W, 9mm. etc.

 

[Rexster]

Actually, SeekHer, most LEOs in the USA buy our own firearms. We may be guided by policy regarding manufacturers and model range, and have to carry a specified cartridge, but below the federal and state levels, providing our own duty weapons is common, and even state-level agents and officers often have some level of freedom with secondary and optional duty handguns.

My employer has several thousand sworn personnel, and our primary duy cartridge is .40 S&W. We have a choice of four manufacturers, and about six to eight models, and that is just the primary duty pistol. We buy our own, and as the policy has changed, those with existing pistols have been "grandfathered" so they can keep carrying their older weapons, rather than buying a new one. This is not unique to Texas; I believe New York City PD has a similar policy, though unlike NYPD, we have a very wide range of choice in secondary weapons. In both NY, and my corner of Texas, some older officers can be seen carrying grandfathered duty sixguns.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Just consider the 'Border Shift' a sort of NY reload.

The Border Shift is where you hold two guns, one in each hand, and after emptying the one in your strong hand, you flip the empty one in the air while transferring the loaded one to your shooting hand and catch the in-flight one with your weak hand at the same time.

Just add a draw with the weak hand and there is that NY reload!

And that could be called the "Texas reload".

Deaf

 

[SeekHer]

Actually, SeekHer, most LEOs in the USA buy our own firearms. We may be guided by policy regarding manufacturers and model range, and have to carry a specified cartridge, but below the federal and state levels, providing our own duty weapons is common, and even state-level agents and officers often have some level of freedom with secondary and optional duty handguns.

My employer has several thousand sworn personnel, and our primary duy cartridge is .40 S&W. We have a choice of four manufacturers, and about six to eight models, and that is just the primary duty pistol. We buy our own, and as the policy has changed, those with existing pistols have been "grandfathered" so they can keep carrying their older weapons, rather than buying a new one. This is not unique to Texas; I believe New York City PD has a similar policy, though unlike NYPD, we have a very wide range of choice in secondary weapons. In both NY, and my corner of Texas, some older officers can be seen carrying grandfathered duty sixguns.

I had always heard it first hand and read about it that it was the complete opposite: that lots of departments supply the officers with their duty firearms and ammunition and the officer can then buy their backup and/or off duty piece from a list of makes and models in their specified calibre(s) from a list of approved suppliers (stores) and the make, type and velocity of ammo that can be used by the officer in their gun(s) even when the officers are at their own place of residence.

That also leads to the fact that so many LEOs are such horrendous shots since they are not given the resources--ammo and time--to practice since it's the pencil pushers buying the ammo...I know lots of officers in the USA that shoot their guns exactly one time per year--when they are given twenty rounds--practice with fifteen and qualify with five--or variations of that theme for their annual proficiency test.

Anything beyond those X number of shells, time and one maybe two targets is then at the officer's personal expense and personal (off duty) time...I know them on a state, municipal, county and even federal level...I'm talking regular patrol, RC, clerical, administrative, management officers...That normally does not special duty/HRT/SWAT etc. officers but that applies to practice time and practice ammo but they still have to abide by their departments weapons and ammunition clauses.

That is all to prevent the frivolous, cash and resource draining, law suits like excessive force, too powerful a bullet or gun is considered too aggressive/dangerous/life threatening for these namby pamby hoplophobes...I remember that it applied to calibres like the 10mm, .44 Spec, .357 SIG even the .40 S&W, .41 & .357 Rem mag and the .327 Federal...Then again geography also plays a part--a SAA .45 Colt may be the Bee' Knees in the Texas Panhandle but they would cause so much hassle for the officer in a place like Miami, FL and a snub-nosed Detective Special in .38 Spec just might not be the best choice for a Park Policeman in Grizzly bear country.

Reading in Massad Ayoob and the NRA-ILA etc. that some departments even frown on officers having more then their allotment of firearms--duty--on and off and backup fine but throw, just for an example a Ruger Mark 1 .22 LR in their and they come down on your case...Something to do with trying to change the public's' perceived notion that all LEOs are all trigger happy maniacs.

 

[SeekHer]

Just consider the 'Border Shift' a sort of NY reload.

The Border Shift is where you hold two guns, one in each hand, and after emptying the one in your strong hand, you flip the empty one in the air while transferring the loaded one to your shooting hand and catch the in-flight one with your weak hand at the same time.

Just add a draw with the weak hand and there is that NY reload!

And that could be called the "Texas reload".

Deaf

I was always told that the "Border Shift" was the person handing you their gun, laid out on their palm, butt towards you would have a finger in the trigger guard and would twirl the gun back into their palm and then shoot you.

That's what Wyatt Earp, Tom Threepersons and either Skeeter Skelton or Bill Jordan called it.

 

[postalnut25]

SeekHer- My department will provide duty ammunition in 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP for our duty guns. 38 Special is provided for our back-ups. Most of my department (20ish officers) carry snubs on the ankle. However, we had to buy our own guns. We had a huge list of what was allowed, so we picked what we wanted from that list, in an approved caliber, and bought our own.

My ex-wife's department is quite a bit bigger (600+ deputies) and they have to buy their own guns as well. They have a smaller list of approved firearms, and less caliber choices, but they still have some freedom to pick what they want.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I use these when I wear my favorite cargo pants.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I was always told that the "Border Shift" was the person handing you their gun, laid out on their palm, butt towards you would have a finger in the trigger guard and would twirl the gun back into their palm and then shoot you.

That's what Wyatt Earp, Tom Threepersons and either Skeeter Skelton or Bill Jordan called it.

Seek,

That's the "Road Agent's Spin' you are talking about.

Deaf

 

[EMC45]

I hope you leave NJ soon Bushmaster. Those wheelguns are too nice to not be carried. I fled in 1994. Haven't looked back since!

 

[ope135]

I got your New York reload right here.



No, seriously, that's the name of this holster from Bell Charter Oak. It's for my Colt Cobras.




Fits very close to the body and is quite comfortable.

 

[Rexster]

Seek,

That's the "Road Agent's Spin' you are talking about.

Deaf

Yes, Deaf is correct; that is the Road Agent's Spin, and yes, I have read my Bill Jordan, Jim Wilson, Skeeter and Bart Skelton, Elmer Keith, Tom Ferguson, et al. There are variations, probably; and the one I learned to do did not start with the revolver lying flat on the palm, but vertical.

I quickly found that with a DA revolver, as there was no need to cock the hammer, it was better to flip the weapon the other way, which had the tremendous advantage of not sweeping me with the muzzle. To be clear, I am not advocating that anyone perform any action with a firearm that might
cause the muzzle to point in an unsafe direction! OK? But yes, I did teach myself a variation of the
Road Agent Spin, and my method does not sweep any part of of my anatomy.

In time, I realized that it was better to practice other techniques for dealing with being held at gunpoint, to include explosively moving out of line of the opponent's weapon, while deploying my weapon in a proper firing grip, rather than feigning surrender and trying a trick move. I have not
practiced my variant seriously since the mid- 1980s, and see no need for it today.

Seriously, do jot try to learn this with a functional firearm! "Blue guns" are inexpensive.

 

[SeekHer]

Seek,

That's the "Road Agent's Spin' you are talking about.

Deaf

Yeah, you're correct.

I'd heard/read it called Border and more commonly <<insert expletive>> Draw or Shift as well -- derogatory emphasis on south of the border and darkly hued residents hence the confusion...That, of course, was back in the 1960s when being PC was unheard of and of course was reflected in the writing of the time.

Have you ever read Skeeter Skeleton's articles or his books? Great reads about pistoleros (both sides of the law) from the late 1800s to mid/late 1970s

There was an article in Guns And Ammo back in May of 1994 written by Phil Spangenburger called "The Secrets of Fancy Sixgunning" that has stop action photos of all the different shifts and draws that I've got the copy of on file...If I post them then that's copyright infringement even if I do it as thumbnails (which I don't seem to get to work for me anyway).

 

[Deaf Smith]

Have you ever read Skeeter Skeleton's articles or his books?

Have I ever read Skeeter Skeleton's articles or his books?

Why SeekHer, after all, he was sheriff of DEAF SMITH county!! And I was born and raised in Texas. Even lived in Goldthwaite for years.

I have been known, at an outdoor range where I can play just about any game I want, to play with six shooters in ways they frown upon at indoor ranges as being evil.

I've got a whole library on shoot'en. From Ed McGivern to Applegate to Jeff Cooper to Bill Jordan to Fairbrain to Askins... and even some of the more modern practitioners of the pistol (and rifle.)

Seriously, do jot try to learn this with a functional firearm! "Blue guns" are inexpensive.

Rex,

The metal guns weigh just like the real deal. That's why.

Deaf