New York to Florida ...

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Chester32141

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Hey y'all ... I've done a couple searches here and I have to admit to being more confused than when I started. I'm headed to Upstate New York to see my parents in the next couple weeks and at that time my dad wants to give me several rifles and handguns. Some of these will be a return of my own firearms that I left with him years ago and some will be part of his personal collection. I doubt any are registered. There should also be a good supply of ammo for each gun. In the past I just threw them in the back of the truck (covered) and drove 'em back to Florida, relying on my honest face and good driving to see me through ... Since joining this board I've come to realize this may not be the smartest and best way to do things ... Can anyone please enlighten me as to how I should get these guns and ammo back here or am I just screwed if he wants to share his collection w/ me ... How about some of my own guns I bought back in the 70's and left w/ my dad ... All in all I'm thinking there will be about 10 total ... I should add I've been a Florida resident for the past 20 years ... Thanks in advance for any advice y'all care to share ... :)

Chester

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For the guns that already belong to you, you can simply load them up and bring them back to Florida. There is no transfer involved. They were merely stored at his residence.

For all of the guns he wants to give you, to be legal, they must transfer through a FFL. The easiest way is to get set it up with your local FFL and have your father ship the firearms to him. Then you can go to the local FFL and pick them up.
 
I don't think gifted weapons need to go through an FFL. You certainly don't need an FFL for a private sale in Florida so it's hard to imagine how someone giving them to you would make a difference.

The only exception I can think of to this might be that the guns are registered to him in New York so he may need to have them removed from their registry but this would not be through an FFL. I think it's administrative, someone from New York could chime in on this. I am certain that at a Federal level however they don't care if your Dad gives you his guns.
 
My Dad is bedridden and is incapable of visiting an FFL ... the last one I brought back was a Winchester '92 made in 1894 and in excellent condition along w/ a similiar vintage Remington Rolling Block .22 Boys rifle ... He also has a truck load of reloading and black powder gear ... thanks for your input ... :)

Is it possible for me to pack his firearms and reloading gear up and have it shipped from NY to Florida ? Anybody know what about 1/4- 1/2 ton of hardware would cost to ship ?

Chester

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Looks like I was wrong. Check the link or even e-mail the BATFE and ask them.

[email protected]

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1
 
Due to the laws in NJ, MD and DC, I would drive west to I-75 and go south that way. Except for SC (Which is questionable), provided you have a Fl CWL you should be OK.
 
Some of these will be a return of my own firearms that I left with him years ago and some will be part of his personal collection. I doubt any are registered.
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Rifles do not need to be registered. If the handguns were yours in NYS, they would be registered. If not, then either you or your father are guilty of multiple felonies. Let's assume you left some info out of this post. Let's assume all the guns were yours and were registered. Get your handguns, take them out of NYS. Your dad is old and bed-ridden so the idea that he forgot to return your handguns to you when you moved out of state is plausible.
 
My dad's a real stickler for not breaking the law so I guess if handguns need to be registered in NY then he has them registered. I took my handguns with me when I left years ago. Most of his handguns are quite old and were purchased used in the 50's and 60's. To the best of my knowledge most of his later purchases were rifles, shot guns and blackpowder ... :)
 
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Sorry, but it is not legal for him to simply give them to you and you take them and/or ship them to Florida. The only way for firearms to cross state lines without an FFL being involved is bequeathment.

If he wants to be strictly legal, there is no way around it. You can pack them up for him while you are there and ship them to Florida, but they must go to an FFL in Florida and you pick them up there.

BTW, black powder guns are not considered "firearms", so you can take them with you.
 
In NYS, your father will need to go to the FFL with the guns, not you. You do not have a permit for them in NYS. It would probably be a felony if you showed up to the FFL with guns that were not registered to you.
 
You should call a local FFL in New York near where your father lives, your Father may be bed ridden but there is no reason that the FFL can't come to him.
 
Can a Florida resident buy a rifle or shotgun in New York? If so, your father's rifles and shotguns can be transferred to you through an FFL in New York, and you can drive them back to Florida.

Going from memory here: your father's handguns need to go through an FFL in New York to get them off his permit. The New York FFL will need to ship them to an FFL in Florida for you.
 
DEAR LORD IN HEAVEN DON'T TOUCH THOSE GUNS WHILE YOU'RE IN NYS!

New York is the only state in the union that requires a permit for simple possession of a firearm, including those who are not residents of the state (IL, MA, etc. require the same thing, but exempt non-residents from my understanding). There are a couple of exceptions, but you ain't it! On top of that, there is no way for a non-resident to get a permit.

DO NOT SCREW AROUND! Many people thought they could rely on their honest face and had their weapons confiscated, were financially ruined, forced to defend their very freedom in court, or even served jail terms for thinking like that. NYS firearms laws are no joke!

I know the FFL transfer fee sucks. Shipping is even worse. SUCK IT UP. Be smart. It's not about being a stickler for the law, it's about not having your life ruined despite having the best of intentions.

Please please please please be careful and do some cheking around. It won't be hard to find the laws, and the sad stories of those who unknowingly broke them.

Reid
 
Handguns cannot be shipped through interstate commerce except between FFLs, or to a C&R if the weapon is a Curio/Relic. Also an FFL from one state cannot perform the transfer of a handgun to a person from another state or to a person who has an out of state driver's license (sometimes somebody might have just moved into town, well they need an in-state driver's license).

As far as I know, legally speaking, the long-guns can just be handed over to you, the pistols may have to be shipped to Florida and transferred through an FFL... MAY HAVE to, not an absolute certainity. It depends on what laws NY has about private transfers since the transfer would be happening physically in New York and no interstate shipments are involved... Still, I know it would be illegal for a dealer in Kentucky to directly sell me a handgun, in person, at his store...

However, with the private sale laws as they are in Ohio, I am neither obligated nor even encouraged to take down information from any private buyer, so in theory I could wind up selling a handgun to somebody from, well, who knows where...


Just remember that FOPA will NOT protect you as the act is not worth a darn... New York is one of a number of states that disregards federal laws at will...

Your best bet would be to first talk to a Florida gun dealer, a Florida attorney (or the attorney general's office), and then talk to a NY gun dealer (avoid talking to any NY officials, they might be tempted to have your father raided on some charge of "maintaining an arsenal" depending on how many guns he has).
 
The only way for firearms to cross state lines without an FFL being involved is bequeathment.
Click to expand...


That is really a dtrange part of the law. Your out of state dad can't "Give" you a gun with out using an FFL, but if he dies it's OK with out the FFL.

I understand the needs for some laws, but these are nuts. You have a father tryingto give guns to a son. I just went through this with a pistol & .22 rifle.

I called 5 differenet FFL's and were told many things that I believe would not be legal. Be carefull read the laws for yourself. You may even consider calling the BATF.

I had one FFL tell me that the law was not ment to stop a father from giving a son a gun. Yeah tell that to the judge.

I went the FFL to FFL route. It was much safer than risking losing my firearms rights.

I would also be concerned about traveling with 10 guns. THat could really draw attention if you get pulled over or in an acceident.

Good luck to you and your father.
 
Handguns cannot be shipped through interstate commerce except between FFLs, or to a C&R if the weapon is a Curio/Relic.
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As far as the feds are concerned, a non-FFL can ship a handgun to a FFL in another state. Based on what I have read here, New York requires an FFL to FFL transfer, because of the need to remove the handguns from his father's permit.

Also an FFL from one state cannot perform the transfer of a handgun to a person from another state or to a person who has an out of state driver's license (sometimes somebody might have just moved into town, well they need an in-state driver's license).
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True.

As far as I know, legally speaking, the long-guns can just be handed over to you
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Not true. It's an interstate transfer, therefore the services of an FFL are required. As far as the feds are concerned, they can go through an FFL in New York or Florida.

the pistols may have to be shipped to Florida and transferred through an FFL... MAY HAVE to, not an absolute certainity. It depends on what laws NY has about private transfers since the transfer would be happening physically in New York and no interstate shipments are involved...
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The handguns absolutely have to go through an FFL in Florida. This is a federal requirement. Because his father needs to get them off his New York license, my understanding is that they also need to go through an FFL in New York.
 
My understanding of long-guns is that since I can buy one from a dealer in any state (basically, aside from odd states with bad laws) since I am physically there. One should be able to obtain a rifle/shotgun in any state, barring state law issues, and transport it back to his home state. It shouldn't matter how you obtain it, a transfer is a transfer.

I would assume, and this is just of course my assumption, that you can have a private citizen give you a long-gun in any state, as long as you are physically there, and you just take it back to your home state. It just makes sense this way, aside from the fact that since private transfers do not go through background checks (or FFLs) there is no capacity for enforcement.
 
I would assume, and this is just of course my assumption, that you can have a private citizen give you a long-gun in any state, as long as you are physically there, and you just take it back to your home state.
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That would be a violation of the 1968 Gun Control Act.

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b2
Click to expand...
 
My understanding of long-guns is that since I can buy one from a dealer in any state (basically, aside from odd states with bad laws) since I am physically there. One should be able to obtain a rifle/shotgun in any state, barring state law issues, and transport it back to his home state. It shouldn't matter how you obtain it, a transfer is a transfer.
Click to expand...

As wdlsguy stated, that is a violation of federal law. You have to use a FFL across state lines.
 
I interpret the idea of "interstate commerce" to mean that I cannot ship a rifle to Joe Bob in Kentucky, but if we are face to face, the transfer is no longer interstate, but rather within the same state, since we cannot do a face-to-face transfer unless we are next to each other (same state).


I'd also cite the Dredd Scott decision (yes! oddly enough) and FOPA 1986. Dredd Scott ruled that property you lawfully possessed in one state, continues to be yours even if you take it into a state/territory that has banned it, and it cannot be deprived of you. This aspect of the SCOTUS ruling on the Dredd Scott decision was NEVER reversed. I would say that your property, left in New York, remains yours... Yes I know Dredd Scrott applied to slavery, but back then slaves were considered property (obviously), and since the ruling said PROPERTY and not "slaves" it applies to any/all property, which today can be said to mean guns.

If I had a bucket of cash, a lawyer willing to go through a few dozen migraines, and a year to kill, I'd take a semi-auto AK-47 into California, or better yet, a papered and approved for transfer, Class III weapon, and then get arrested, and then cite the ruling Dredd Scott (as well as FOPA), and the Miller Case (ruling on militia suitable weapons, the AK being one such weapon) to support my case that the property was lawfully mine in Ohio and remained lawfully mine in California. By the letter of the law and the spirit of the Constitution I would be right, but by the dictate and decrees of twisted men, I would found to be in fault and guilty of violating their so-called laws.
 
When you drive out of Kentucky, you just transported the rifle interstate.

You can make all of the interpretations you want. End the end, for a firearm to change ownership across state lines, an FFL must be involved. No ifs ands or buts.
 
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