New York to Florida ...

[EOTechRulesAll]

When I drive out of Kentucky I just transferred my legally own rifle out of state, across state lines. You cannot conduct a sale across state lines (my mailing you a rifle in Kentucky, with myself being in Ohio) but no sale is conducted across state lines if possession has been transferred within one state... That is how I'd see the law.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

There is absolutely no real capacity for enforcement for what you say the law is. If that was the law, they would have some capacity for enforcement.

Who is to say I got the rifle in Kentucky from a friend, rather than from a private sale at a flea market in Ohio?

See, no capacity for enforcement... Governments tend not to pass laws that they cannot easily enforce... They like to have power and control...

 

[Hkmp5sd]

We told you the law. It is totally up to you to ignore it. Being hard to enforce doesn't make it not a federal law. Straw purchases are also part of the law and very hard to prove. That is why ATF agents love to set up stings to trap people into doing it.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I read on a Class III FFL website blog, the owner stating that you can legally ship a handgun from one state to another, (albeit to yourself at a new address or a vacation address, etc), or especially to an FFL, just not a non-FFL person who is not yourself, and that the USPS is not prohibited by law from doing this and you are not prohibited by law. He said it is a matter of stupid agency policies, and workers who have no idea what the law is.

If I wanted to ship a pistol I don't have to do it UPS Next Day Air, since it is not my fault their employees steal so many guns. The USPS, as long as it exists, and is supported by my tax dollars, owes me the service of delivering mail that I have duly placed in their care and duly paid for. You have no obligation to declare the contents of a package unless it is hazardous material or a controlled substance.

This is according to a Class III dealer in South Carolina (I will try to dig up the link again).

 

[wdlsguy]

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried by the mails or delivered by any officer or employee of the Postal Service. Such articles may be conveyed in the mails, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe, for use in connection with their official duty, to officers of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps; to officers of the National Guard or Militia of a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District; to officers of the United States or of a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitments; to employees of the Postal Service; to officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States; and to watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District. Such articles also may be conveyed in the mails to manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein in customary trade shipments, including such articles for repairs or replacement of parts, from one to the other, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe.

Whoever knowingly deposits for mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail according to the direction thereon, or at any place to which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any pistol, revolver, or firearm declared nonmailable by this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

18 USC 1715

(USPS) Statement by Shippers of Firearms

 

[EAdams]

If you wanted to save on shipping costs in a situation like this could you just remove the receiver from each firearm, transport the 'non-gun' parts of the gun with you back to Florida and FFL the receivers?

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Yesterday when I spoke with the ATF, the specialist told me that technically FOPA allows me to drive through Illinois en route to Missouri, since some guns I have are legal in Missouri but not Illinois, but he said in practice I should expect Illinois' gun-haters to hassle the crap out of me, perhaps even arrest me and seize my stuff. He said it is sad that you have to hire an attorney to make them see the obvious, "YOU ARE VIOLATING FEDERAL LAW!" but that is how it is. He told me if I want to get to Missouri to drive through Kentucky instead of Illinois.

He also said that you cannot do a face-to-face transfer of a long-gun between residents of two different states if they are not FFLs (a dealer can sell a long-gun to another state resident, with the proper 4473, assuming state law allows it, but private citizens cannot transfer such stuff).

He also answered a question of mine about a quagmire, where you move from state 1 to state 2, and you still have a driver's license from state 1, but you don't yet have one from state 2, so you cannot buy guns in state 2 as you don't have a driver's license from that state (handguns that is to say) and you cannot go back to your original state and use your license since that is no longer your current address and you would be lying on the form. He said, "yes, that happened to me when I moved, you're basically out in the cold for a few months or so... It can happen to lots of people who travel long-term or relocate frequently for jobs. Few people ever thought of that possibility."

We talked for about 20-30 minutes and he referred me to various sections of the code and he finally gave me a definitive answer as to whether each grenade would count as a DD (40mm grenades) and thus need to be papered, or if I could get a general explosive handler/user permit and buy boxes of them. He said that TNT is an explosive, grenades (40mm grenades) which are projectiles, are DDs, so the answer is YES, you need to paper each individual grenade.

Very nice gentleman, it was a good conversation. He could have just told me to drive through Illinois and let FOPA guard me, but he said that in practice, in a state such as Illinois, and the other viciously anti-gun states, FOPA isn't worth anything and it will cost you thousands of dollars in legal fees to prove you were in the right, and you may wind up permanently losing whatever guns they took from you. He said you're much better off just detouring through reasonable states.

He also did say there is no real capacity for enforcement in regards to face-to-face transfers between residents of different states unless states have some sort of registration list and additional requirements, etc. He did say that in theory, by the letter of the law, handguns absolutely must be shipped to an FFL in Florida to be transferred to anybody in New York (I posed the scenario in terms of a hypothetical), and that long-guns can be transferred through an FFL in New York, to a resident of Florida, assuming state laws are okay with this.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Removed - redundant

 

[CNYCacher]

These is a handgun registry in NYS, so even though they are your guns, they are likely registered to your father.

You would be in violation on NYS laws from the moment you took possession of the pistols until you crossed the NY/PA border.

I am not sure if FOPA applies here. . . however it would apply if you were traveling through NYS, from Vermont, for example.