Newbie AR15 Purchase Question

[NelsErik]

I want to buy an AR15 for myself for my birthday. Mainly, I just want an AR15, but I also want it to replace my CZ 527 Varmint for predator calling. I initially wanted a Bushmaster Predator, but all my friends suggested the Colt LE6920. So I go to the store they and have the 6920 Magpul version for $1,049, but they also have the Bushmaster Predator for $799. Both are new guns on the store rack; however, the Bushmaster is in the clearance section and is significantly scuffed up. It appears like it has been on the shelf for a significant period of time. I have never owned an AR15 before, actually, I have never even shot one, but I assume that the scuff marks won't clean up, but since the gun is new, overall, it will still be a good rifle. If I decide on the Bushmaster, what do I need to look for? Is there anything that could have been done to the gun in the store to make it a dud or inaccurate? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions on which gun to buy would also be appreciated.

Thank You.
Nels

 

[Telekinesis]

Go with the Colt. It is a higher quality gun than the Bushmaster.

Also, the marks on the Bushmaster are probably not going to come out (unless they're chalk or something), but that should not actually hurt the function of the rifle. That said, I have more confidence that the Colt will be put together to a higher standard as far as parts and build quality is concerned.

 

[CoRoMo]

Mainly, I just want an AR15, but I also want it ... for predator calling.

I personally wouldn't buy a patrol carbine for hunting uses. The 6920 is a "better" rifle in many ways, but it ain't engineered with varmint hunting in mind.

I assume that the scuff marks won't clean up

I'd assume the same as the anodized finish is likely removed within each scuff/scratch. However, you can use a number of inexpensive products to 'clean up' the blemishes or even coat/paint the whole rifle.

Is there anything that could have been done to the gun in the store to make it a dud or inaccurate?

Sure, something could have happened, but it's probably a good rifle. Ask the store if they will help you correct anything if it is found majorly out of whack.

 

[Acera]

It pays to shop around.

Find out what the local FFLs near you charge for a transfer. My area they are about $20.

Find exactly what you want online. I've ordered online from another state (avoided them collecting sales tax) and had my rifle in my hands 22 hours later.

Usually the best price can be had this way on exactly what you want, not what the store has in stock.

I would go with the Colt also.

,

 

[Jimster]

Buy the Bushy and spend the rest on ammo. It's already seasoned.

 

[md7]

Personally, I'd go with the Colt 6920 between the two.

Regardless, good luck to you.

 

[Reloadron]

Go to the store, buy the Colt, be happy and with the Colt may you enjoy many, many more Happy Birthdays in the future.

Seriously, if you have the bucks to spend I would lean towards the Colt. However, it is your call. I would also look around for the exact Colt model & part number seeking the best price.

Ron

 

[NelsErik]

Thanks Everyone!

What makes the Colt come so recommended?

 

[Reloadron]

Thanks Everyone!

What makes the Colt come so recommended?

I would say simply because they build a heck of a fine rifle and have been doing so longer than most. What manufactured offers over a roll your own is a pretty good assurance that you end up with a turn key solution right out of a box ready to shoot. Make sure the bore is not obstructed, make sure the rifle is lubed, load a magazine and shoot. While kit guns are straight forward and there is not much to assembly a new Colt, out of the box is hard to beat.

Ron

 

[readyeddy]

I won't say which gun is better, but another route is to buy a $500 rifle. Most examples make fine AR's.

 

[Olympus]

You're going to get a lot of recommendations for the Colt, but that's mostly because it says "Colt' and that name supposedly has magical powers. Nothing really all that special about the Colt aside from a historic name on the lower. In this market, there are easily a half dozen other brands that are better built than a Colt. My advice is don't get too concerned over the name. I've never bought a factory AR myself, I've always built my own and probably have built 10 or 12 over the years and never had a problem with any of them. Find the gun that fits your budget and fits your style of shooting. Both guns will be good shooters and will be backed by a reputable company if something turns out not to work properly, which I HIGHLY doubt.

 

[cdb1]

Bushmaster is one of the few AR's I wouldn't buy. IMO Remingtion ruined Bushmaster in the same way they messed up Marlin. Of the AR's I have experience with I'd take a Wyndham, CMMG, Ruger AR-556 or Anderson over a Bushmaster, in that order. I also believe the Wyndham is as good or better than the Colt for less money.

 

[Reloadron]

Bushmaster is one of the few AR's I wouldn't buy. IMO Remingtion ruined Bushmaster in the same way they messed up Marlin. Of the AR's I have experience with I'd take a Wyndham, CMMG, Ruger AR-556 or Anderson over a Bushmaster, in that order. I also believe the Wyndham is as good or better than the Colt for less money.

Did Remington cause the problems experienced by Marlin and Bushmaster or was it all caused by The Freedom Group who owns:
REMINGTON
BUSHMASTER
REMINGTON MILITARY
REMINGTON LE
MARLIN FIREARMS
H&R 1871
DAKOTA ARMS
TAPCO
DPMS / Panther Arms
PARKER GUNMAKERS
BARNES BULLETS
ADVANCED ARMAMENT
PARA USA
REMINGTON PMPD
MOUNTAIN KHAKIS
REMINGTON 1816

While I have heard that quality dropped for Marlin, Bushmaster and Remington I never did see any poorly built hardware and have always focused on the older manufacture Remington and Marlin guns. Anyway, before placing any blame on Remington I would look towards the parent company for problems. Just my take on the subject.

Ron

 

[cdb1]

My understanding is quality issues didn't start until Bushmaster production was taken over by Remington. I've been told by supposed industry insiders that a lesson was learned so when Freedom Group purchased DPMS, DPMS was allowed to operate independently and quality didn't suffer.

I don't care or know for sure whether it was Remington or Freedom Group, ultimately final reponsibility lies with Freedom since Remington falls under their aegis.

 

[AlexanderA]

Build your own. The beauty of the AR-15 design is that it's so modular. That way, you can have it exactly the way you like it, and probably save a little money in the process. Putting together an AR-15 is easy. All the parts can be found at any large gun show.

 

[Telekinesis]

Thanks Everyone!

What makes the Colt come so recommended?

When choosing guns for serious use, I tend to look at what trainers teaching rifle classes recommend, or better yet read course reviews from other students to get more of a "what happened in my class" view.

Generally most decent ARs will make it through a basic rifle class, but when you start getting into difficult classes that incorporate 2000-3000 rounds in a week in really poor conditions (think small unit tactics type classes), you start to see a separation between the rifles. Of course guns like Daniel Defense, etc. will do well, but from what I've seen the Colt is the least expensive weapon that still does well in those type of classes. If you don't need that reliability, then it doesn't matter. But if it's in your budget and you like the gun, why not go for it?

Anyway, thats why I recommend the colt. Others could have a bunch of other reasons.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Buy the Colt, don't look back.

The last class I attended was predominately Colt's, BCM, and Daniel Defense (mine). There was one Bushmaster on the line, and one Rock River. There was also one home build, that was all top notch parts built by a guy who really knows AR's.

The only guns to develop issues were the Bushmaster and the Rock River. All the top tier fighting guns ran just fine hot and dirty.

One student appeared to literally take a Colt 6920 out of the wrapper, run a bore snake down the pipe, lube up the action and run the gun in class. One hell of a way to shake out a new carbine, and it didn't disappoint.

 

[Varminterror]

The Colt will be the better built firearm. The Bushmaster will be the rifle better suited for hunting. The Colt will be "sufficient" for hunting, and the Bushy will be "sufficiently well fit and finished."

The Predator (should at least) come with the Bushmaster National Match 2 stage trigger (which in Bushy's day, was highly regarded among NRA/CMP shooters), and it's already free floating with a Bushmaster match barrel (which isn't really "match grade," but it IS better than rack grade from other major manufacturers). The Colt will be better fit and better finished, but while the shorter length is nicer for carry, giving up some barrel length to the Predator takes away a bit of stability on the sticks and a little anchoring power on longer shots. The biggest difference in my book is the forend: since most predator calling is done supported on sticks or a bipod, you'll really benefit the most from the float tube on the Bushmaster rather than the clamshell on the Colt. The fixed front sight on the Colt also stands in front of your scope, distracting for low magnification, and a bit distorting on target for higher magnification.

I've hunted coyotes for many years, both with 6920's and a bushmaster Varminter (precursor with a longer barrel to the Predator), among many other AR's and other rifle types. The Predator is heavy and long, but it's very nice to have when a coyote hangs up at 400yrds and won't come into the call. The colt will be short handling and lighter, but it's gonna need an upgrade to the forend before I'd lay it on sticks to shoot coyotes, plus a new trigger.

And of course, with either being sufficient, and the Bushmaster better suited for hunting, AND being lower priced, you get more for your money in the Bushmaster - you get a sufficient rifle which doesn't need modifications to be hunt ready AND you can bring home a bunch of ammo with it for the same price as just the Colt.

Of the two, I'd buy the Bushmaster, personally. It's race ready for coyote hunting, plus it's cheaper.

 

[highpower]

While I have no personal experience with Bushmaster, I do have some long term (30+years) experience with Colts. I have both a SP1 that was made in 1976 that I bought used and a Colt Sporter Match HBAR that I bought new in 1989 and shot for years in service rifle matches. Both of these rifles have been flawless over the years and very accurate. I have put untold thousands of rounds through them and they still shoot as good as when I got them so many years ago.

While there may be no difference between Bushmaster and Colt for predator hunting, I would tend to gravitate towards the Colt due to my own experience with them. I have no idea of why a new rifle would get all scratched up, but for a mere $250 difference, I would get the Colt hands down.

 

[cdb1]

The Colt will be the better built firearm. The Bushmaster will be the rifle better suited for hunting. The Colt will be "sufficient" for hunting, and the Bushy will be "sufficiently well fit and finished."

The Predator (should at least) come with the Bushmaster National Match 2 stage trigger (which in Bushy's day, was highly regarded among NRA/CMP shooters), and it's already free floating with a Bushmaster match barrel (which isn't really "match grade," but it IS better than rack grade from other major manufacturers). The Colt will be better fit and better finished, but while the shorter length is nicer for carry, giving up some barrel length to the Predator takes away a bit of stability on the sticks and a little anchoring power on longer shots. The biggest difference in my book is the forend: since most predator calling is done supported on sticks or a bipod, you'll really benefit the most from the float tube on the Bushmaster rather than the clamshell on the Colt. The fixed front sight on the Colt also stands in front of your scope, distracting for low magnification, and a bit distorting on target for higher magnification.

I've hunted coyotes for many years, both with 6920's and a bushmaster Varminter (precursor with a longer barrel to the Predator), among many other AR's and other rifle types. The Predator is heavy and long, but it's very nice to have when a coyote hangs up at 400yrds and won't come into the call. The colt will be short handling and lighter, but it's gonna need an upgrade to the forend before I'd lay it on sticks to shoot coyotes, plus a new trigger.

And of course, with either being sufficient, and the Bushmaster better suited for hunting, AND being lower priced, you get more for your money in the Bushmaster - you get a sufficient rifle which doesn't need modifications to be hunt ready AND you can bring home a bunch of ammo with it for the same price as just the Colt.

Of the two, I'd buy the Bushmaster, personally. It's race ready for coyote hunting, plus it's cheaper.

Even though I don't like Bushmaster I agree with the gist of your post. I have one AR and bought it specifically with coyote hunting in mind. It's a DPMS and has an A2 stock and a 20" barrel. I also put a Timney 3lb trigger in it. I hate stock AR triggers and also prefer single stage.

 

[redneck2]

I have three AR's. One is an original Windham Bushmaster, which is different from the ones built today. I go on prairie dog hunts. Other guys that go also bought AR's after they saw mine shoot. They bought typical ones rather than varminters. We have shooting contests every year, and I always win. Always. Not even close.

Typical AR's are used to do a thirty round mag dump into a dirt bank in under two seconds. Turn money into noise as quickly as possibIe. I want to hit little bitty stuff way off. First round hits on prairie dogs at 300+ yards is common with my rifle.

As noted above, the fore end of a combat type AR is less than optimum for accuracy. IMO, you need a free float front grip.

Stag makes (or at least did make) a varminter guaranteed to shoot 1". I believe RRA does the same. I would strongly suggest not getting a combat/HD style. Heavy barrel is not required. In fact, I'd get a pencil barrel if possible. Don't need to carry the extra weight around for coyotes.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Buy the Colt.

When funds allow purchase a good free floating rail, and a Geissele 2 stage trigger.

My Colt came free floated, being one of the 1500 SOCOM II's made for the commercial market. While not the lightest carbine ever made due to the Daniel Defense RIS II rail, and M4A1 medium contour barrel, it has been an excellent shooter. With a Geissele 2 stage in it, and a Nightforce NXS 3-15×50 on top in a Nightforce Uni-Mount I have shot some very nice groups during load development. Match quality ammo usually yeilds 10 shot groups right at 1.0 MOA or a bit less once a load is dialed in a bit. If you want to call a 5 shots a "group" I've had those turn in the occasional .5 MOA or less group. The 10 shot groups account for more deviation so I use those now, and I can honestly claim that my Colt chrome lined barrel is capable of 1.0 MOA with good quality match type ammo. For example 69gr SMK's will usually give this kind of performance in this barrel, usually around .9" at 100 yards for 10 shots.

 

[CoRoMo]

When choosing guns for serious use, I tend to look at what trainers teaching rifle classes recommend...

For some unidentifiable reason, the majority of posts in this thread think the OP is looking to buy a fighting rifle. He never said he wanted a patrol carbine for any particular defense role. Had he, I'd also resound the Colt name over the hunting rifle he's found at a discount price.

But he's only mentioned that he wants to use the rifle for predator hunting. Post # 18 was the definitive post IMHO; someone there who knows what they're talking about.

Maybe the tactical operators here thought 'predator hunting' was a new uber operator class that he was going to take.

 

[Telekinesis]

For some unidentifiable reason, the majority of posts in this thread think the OP is looking to buy a fighting rifle. He never said he wanted a patrol carbine for any particular defense role.

Then maybe it was good that I qualified my statement so that the OP could understand why *I* see the colt as the best? And then later said "that is why *I* recommended the colt", in his response to why I (or others) recommended it? That way he can decide for himself if those reasons are as important to him as they are to others.

There is a population of shooters (and I count myself among them) that prefer an unspecialized but very reliable gun to a specialized and not so reliable gun.

 

[NelsErik]

IMG_9113

• NelsErik
• Oct 28, 2016

IMG_9114

• NelsErik
• Oct 28, 2016

Thanks Everyone - It looks like I will be building my first AR instead of buying it...

Anyhow, here are a couple pictures of the Bushmaster.