Newbie getting discouraged learning to shoot .38 special snubnose

[Stickman60]

I bought a Charter Arms Undercover .38 Special for home defense and fun over 30 years ago while spending a year in Arkansas, put about 40 rounds through it and then stored it away because I moved to New York State, and later, Pennsylvania, and had a family. Kids are grown now and I recently got it out, took a NRA safety course, and have put about 250 rounds through it at the local range (mostly 158 gr LRN) with the goal of becoming reasonably proficient at target shooting. I have done a lot of online reading and watching videos on this particular gun and other snubbies, as well as talking to people, and it is clear that this species can be a challenge to shoot well, plus this particular gun’s trigger is not known to be very smooth. I have not noticed any improvement in my shooting accuracy. At 5 yards, my shots tend to be low and to left, but they are really all over the target. I have tried holding the gun in different ways, tried different trigger finger placements, paid careful attention to smooth trigger pulls, and even replaced the original, tiny grips with full size Charter Arms grips because I have big hands (which made things worse). I am starting to think that I am just wasting my time and money, and would be better off getting another gun, which I eventually wanted to do anyway. Do you think I should give this current gun another chance or make a move now to something else? My goals are the same as 30 years ago, home defense and fun.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Sounds like you're not having fun and that its of limited use to you right now

If you only want a firearm for home defense (you aren't concerned about concealing around town) and like the revolver platform the Gp100 is a great start.

Although the revolver/handgun platform is outclassed by shotguns for the HD application (remington 870, mossberg 500, benelli supernova).

 

[Squeaky Wheel]

If it were me, I would sell the Charter snubbie. Charter is not among the better quality firearm makers and secondly, a snubbie is not particularly well-suited for your intended application. I would go back to the drawing board. Revolver or semi-auto and what's your budget? These 2 questions, when answered, should help to put you in the ballpark for what's best for you.

My $0.02 -- for a revolver, I would look at a mid-sized frame Smith or a Ruger. For a semi-auto, I would look at a mid-sized frame Colt, Sig, Glock, Smith, or Springfield depending on your budget and preferences. My pick in a revolver would be a Smith 586 or 686. In a semi-auto my top pick would be .45 ACP in Smith, Sig, or Colt.

Good luck!

 

[Iggy]

While a snub nosed revolver is mechanically as accurate as one with a longer barrel, the length of the sight plane is a real booger to overcome.

For your purposes a medium frame gun with a 4" barrel would probably be more accurate, and enjoyable.

Think S&W K frames or Colt or Ruger guns in the same size range.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Take a class, pick up some guns that are easier to shoot, and work on the fundamentals with those.

 

[Nushif]

I am starting to think that I am just wasting my time and money, and would be better off getting another gun, which I eventually wanted to do anyway.

Sounds like your answer right there.

Ultimatey when you go shooting you gotta go have fun. And snubbies wile "fun" aren't exactly beginner friendly guns. It can be done, but you have to truly love th snubbie to do it.
Let us know what you trade into to get back to having fun. 8)

 

[Telekinesis]

If you don't enjoy the gun and have difficulty shooting it, I'd recommend getting something else. Eventually as you become better at shooting, you may want to find a more difficult to shoot gun just for the challenge (or for more important characteristics like concealability) but just starting out, a difficult gun isn't worth it.

If you want to stick with a revolver, I'd recommend something in a medium frame with something like a 4" barrel. If you are more interested in a semi, I'd look into a full sized 9mm.

 

[bkrdoug]

38spl---shooting

I have a nickel S&W "chief" 38spl---could not hit side of the barn-----FIXED!!!! lazer sight. first try at 25 feet all 5 in area of playing card!!----case solved. doug

 

[spotch]

No matter what you end up doing, I'm a big fan of slow dry firing, with close attention to the front sight while you do it to see if there is any wobbling as you pull the trigger back (there almost surely is, even for good shooters sometimes). It's way easier to practice this way because its free and you dont have the muzzle blast to obscure the results of your pull. That's the great thing about revolvers, ease of practice

The added bonus is that once you master your control on a stiff long snub trigger you should be a pro at pretty much any trigger

 

[Naybor]

Each revolver has a personality ~ sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Actually, it comes down to how well the fit and timing of the cylinder is.
On a badly timed revolver, one cylinder may be dead on, another hitting
low and left, another right, etc. There can be other reasons for bad
accuracy, but I feel timing is the most important. Just me, I guess.

If you can find a range that will let you rent weapons, your search will be
greatly simplified.

My search ended when I found a used Ruger SP 101 .357 that is the second most
accurate revolver I've ever had. The most accurate was a Ruger .44 Magnum that I
owned 25 - 30 years ago. I'm sorry I sold it but it was murder on my ears.

Notice Ruger was the make in both cases. (Also, we now own a Ruger SP101,
Ruger LCP, and Ruger .22 Mark III) Sold all the rest. Just kept what works..

Keep looking and you will eventually find that special handgun.

 

[MedWheeler]

I own two Charter Arms Undercover revolvers, one of which was made around 1966, and the other about 21 years later. Both do precisely what they are built to do, which is to deliver "defense-distance" accuracy in the hands of most shooters. Snubnose revolvers are not target guns. They lack useable sights, and the grips tend to be an impairment as well. You are correct in shooting with 158-grain ammunition; that's the weight around which most snubs are built to shoot to "point-of-aim" (POA.) There were few, if any, quality issues with Undercover models of the vintage of which yours is. They did have a bad run in the early 2000s, especially those sold under the "Charco" name.
For home defense, a four-inch revolver with a six shot cylinder will likely be a better choice. They're easier to point, have "real" sights (well, most do; my Ruger Police Service Six, circa 1976, has the same groove to represent a rear sight as most snubs do.), hold an extra round, come with more comfortable grips, and are heavier, which tames recoil.
I also see where you want your gun for "fun" as well. Few people get that out of steady snubnose shooting so, yeah, a trade up might be in order. In fact, you might want to consider getting something chambered in .357 Magnum. Why? Because you can still shoot your .38 ammunition in it all you want, but one day, you're gonna say "I wonder what a .357 Magnum would be like!"... Two different shooting experiences, one gun.

 

[56hawk]

Well, if you have the money I would suggest getting a S&W 686 or 627 with a four inch barrel. No need for a snubnose if you aren't going to conceal carry it. That being said I am very accurate with my S&W 360. The hard part is to have good trigger control with a small gun with a heavy trigger.

 

[wanderinwalker]

It sounds like you need a 4in .38 or .357 revolver. Take your pick, there are roughly a gazillion of them out there. S&W Model 10, 15, 19, 13, 64, 65, 66, 67, 586, 686, 581, 681 and 12 are the first ones to jump to my mind. Plus Ruger and Colt made almost as many. It is hard to go wrong.

Read the revolver checkout sticky, prowl the used racks and bring cash. You never know what might turn up. But I would keep the Charter for now. When you have a more solid shooting foundation, you can then turn to mastering the snub.

 

[zxcvbob]

Have you tried shooting 148 grain wadcutters?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

While a snub nosed revolver is mechanically as accurate as one with a longer barrel, the length of the sight plane is a real booger to overcome.

Amen!

In addition to that, it's difficult to hold a light-weight gun on target, especially while dragging the trigger through a long double-action pull.

For your purposes a medium frame gun with a 4" barrel would probably be more accurate, and enjoyable.

While a gun with a 4" barrel can't be called a pocket revolver, it's no more difficult to conceal, given a proper holster and belt, than a snubbie.

Think S&W K frames or Colt or Ruger guns in the same size range.

Agreed -- one very nice concealable revolver is the Ruger SP 101 in the 3" barrel. It's the only short-barreled revolver I would consider useable with .357 loads.

 

[mje]

As others have noted, .38 snubbies are last ditch, close-up guns. They waste most of the energy in the cartridge, and produce tremendous amounts of flash and noise. Given that a .380 in a 4" bbl producers as much muzzle energy as a .380 in a 1-7/8" bbl, I think today's pocket sized .380s are a better way to go. (And old Charter Arms pistols are junk.)

Personally, I'd say get a good .22 and spend lots of time practicing with that. Ammunition is cheap and you can develop good shooting habits. Then rent a few different pistols at the range, and make your decision on what to buy then.

 

[Stickman60]

Reply to comments

Thanks everyone for the comments. They contain lots of good recommendations and things to consider. I recently rented a couple semi autos at the range, a Ruger Mark III and a full-size 9mm Glock, and even though they were the first semi autos I have ever shot, I was able to notice improvements in accuracy in just one session—very different from my experience with the snubby. I think one thing to consider is that this particular revolver (and possibly lightweight revolvers in general) needs a more assertive and quicker trigger pull to keep the gun steady. I deliberately tried some very slow pulls and found that they made the trigger action stall midstream and further trigger movement was difficult without adding unwanted motion to the gun.

 

[beatledog7]

I learned to shoot my S&W 642 well, but it was not without its frustrations. I don't typically shoot 158gr slugs any more (will sometimes for fun); I'm far more accurate (and for serious applications limited now) to 125gr. Bullet weight made the difference for me.

If a .38/.357 revolver is what you want, try something a big larger and heavier with a longer barrel, like a Ruger GP100. Much easier to shoot accurately.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Thanks for asking our advice

Do your accuracy problems with the Charter Arms go away if you shoot single-action?

I heartily recommend trying a 22 rimfire.

Here's my reasoning:

1 Practice is important for becoming a good shot. Practice (beyond dry firing) takes ammo. Ammo is cheaper for a 22 than for any other caliber. Example: 22 rimfire costs (around here) $20 - $30 per 500. 500 rounds of 9mm (a very inexpensive round) is at least $100 to $150 per 500.

2 Practice with a round that has almost no recoil makes concentration on sight picture, breathing and trigger control much easier without the distraction of recoil and excessive muzzle blast. You can add those elements later after you have gotten the basics ingrained in your subconscious. If you start out with a hard-recoiling round you are almost certain to develop anticipation (usually characterized by a flinch) which is devilishly hard to cure. Prevention is much easier to, especially while you are learning.

3 Having a good, accurate 22 will put you on the range (if you go to a formal or informal shooting range) where you will get acquainted with other shooters, see their gun handling practices and see their guns. Most gun owners are proud of their hardware and if you exhibit good safety practices, a modicum of shooting skill and a little bit of polite interest, they will very probably let you handle their guns and even send a few rounds downrange. You can get to try out a wide variety of guns that way and collect testimonials from people other than salesmen when you go to a store.

4 Most (accurate) 22 rimfire guns are cheaper to buy than similarly accurate centerfire guns and hold their resale value well.

Good luck. Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep

 

[56hawk]

I deliberately tried some very slow pulls and found that they made the trigger action stall midstream and further trigger movement was difficult without adding unwanted motion to the gun.

This might sound strange, but I have found that bracing my trigger finger with my weak hand thumb gives me a lot more control. It allows me to get a slow pull without the gun wobbling all over the place.

 

[lowercase]

I have both a Charter Undercover and a S&W 642.

First, dry fire the living hell out of that thing, while working on keeping the sights on target.

Second, go and buy some S&B 148 grain WADCUTTER cartridges for the gun. These things are powder puff loads, and you can work on your shooting technique without getting beat up by full-power loads in a light gun.

Both of these things worked wonders for me.

DON'T sell your snubbie. Just give it some time. Those little old Charters are good guns. I'm pretty damn accurate with mine, and it runs like a swiss watch.

Does your Charter look like this?

If so, you may want to look at getting some bigger grips for it if you have large hands. That will really help with control. Pachmayr compact grips, or the rubber ones that you can get from Charter Arms would both be decent choices.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I think one thing to consider is that this particular revolver (and possibly lightweight revolvers in general) needs a more assertive and quicker trigger pull to keep the gun steady.

That's actually not true.

When I'm shooting my S&W M642, for beers, at 50 yards my trigger pull is very slow.

When revolvers need to be shot accurately is:
1. a smooth DA trigger stroke
2. a steady and constant trigger pull...straight to the rear without stopping or slowing (take a look at the second link in my signature)

It does sound like you really want a new gun, but I just didn't want someone reading this thread to think that a small revolver couldn't be shot well

 

[SaxonPig]

"I bought a Charter Arms Undercover .38 Special..."

The gun mentioned above is not a good choice for the activity mentioned below.

"...with the goal of becoming reasonably proficient at target shooting"

Sell the Charter Arms to somebody looking for a hideout gun and buy a Model 15 S&W with a 4" barrel. Will work perfectly for home security and you will shoot it 10 times better than you do the snub.

Use the right tool.

 

[armoredman]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...Handguns/Used S/W Model 10 38sp Police Issue/

If it has to be concealable,

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...Used Smith and Wesson Model 10 38SPL 3/quot;/

That's IF you really want to stay with revolvers. See if there is a local firearms forum that has meet 'n greets at local ranges, or a range that has both instructors and rental guns. You could try some newer sidearms and discover what it is you do like. I do have to say the lightweight 38 snub is one of the hardest handguns to learn to shoot stright for a beginner, and the one often sold to beginners!
I second the thought about a good 22lr pistol/revolver, that will let you practice easily and cheaply.

 

[automan71]

Another vote, here, for the wadcutters! I shoot these all the time through my S&W 442. I've become quite good with it out to 50ft. The low power makes them easy to shoot, even in the airweights, and the wadcutters punch a nice clean hole! Practicing with this little gem has improved my shooting with all of my handguns. Dry firing with snap caps helps, too. However, as others have stated, to get the fundamentals down, a good medium frame 38spl with a 4" barrel would be the ticket...S&W model 10's and 64's are pretty plentiful and can be had at a reasonable price! Good luck and keep shooting!