Newbie Question

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The technical stuff you need to be learning first not as you go.
That's why they asked if you own a reloading hand book. It has the technical stuff that keeps you safe they were not trying to put you down because you didn't know.

Is this possibly why we're seeing greater incidents of ka-booms at ranges?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thank you that would be my goal as I learn I am sure i will be getting into more of the technical stuff

First, welcome to THR.
Second, this, from the Lyman's 48th Edition Reloading Handbook (2002):

Please learn the basics - the technical stuff - FIRST and worry about powders, projectiles, and specific loads for your guns last. You have reloading manuals. Read the first four or five chapters TWICE. Once for an overview and a second time in detail.

Mostly, be safe and find an experienced handloader locally who can help you learn the right - and wrong - things to do.

 

[AK Hunter]

Is this possibly why we're seeing greater incidents of ka-booms at ranges?

I pick up dropped unfired rounds at the range while looking for brass. And over the last year I have seen everything as I pulled the rounds apart from Shooters trying to use cotton wet with lighter fluid for powder to shotgun rounds with used primers instead of shot. All I can say is be careful with anything you pickup at the range. With people desperate enough in trying to make their own primers you can't tell what extremes they will go to.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I pick up dropped unfired rounds at the range while looking for brass. And over the last year I have seen everything as I pulled the rounds apart from Shooters trying to use cotton wet with lighter fluid for powder to shotgun rounds with used primers instead of shot. All I can say is be careful with anything you pickup at the range. With people desperate enough in trying to make their own primers you can't tell what extremes they will go to.

I’m surprised you didn’t find any loaded with cake flour.

 

[stillquietvoice]

Pistol.
I have 1,000 rounds of 124 gr RMR FMJ round nose (for plinking) and its calling for 4.4 gr of Sport Pistol. So why does a lighter bullet take more grains than a

@rhartman911 first off welcome to the forum and the world of reloading.

All fmj, lrn bullets are not the same. Different manufacturers make their bullets with different profiles, slightly different shapes, those differences result in having to load different lengths for fit in your specific chambers. I recently changed 124 lrn bullets and had to seat. 020 deepening my cases and reduce my powder charge by .5 gr. I'm using hs6 powder.

Less case capacity AND higher pressures are a result of a heavier bullet.

mentioned a heavier bullet takes up more space in the case so less case cap, also a heavier bullet is harder to get moving and starts moving slower so less space for the powder to expand as the bullet starts moving.

You guys beat me to it. I haven't used sport pistol at all but as others I strongly recommend starting at at a lower charge, just for your saftey.

 

[Dudedog]

I haven't used sport pistol at all but as others I strongly recommend starting at at a lower charge, just for your saftey.

Yes 4.4 is Alliant's MAX (non +P load) with a 124. OP should be starting around 4gr for the 124s and around 3.3gr for the 147s IMO.
It looks like he saw Allaint's numbers and missed the reduce 10% for start charges (actually I don't see that recommendation on Alliant's web page when looking up a "recipe", it was there in their older data), so he is loading what are listed MAX charges.
In my mind it is never a good idea to start with MAX charges.
If you change anything from the test setup from that MAX listed charge it may be over MAX and it is a given that you will not duplicate the test conditions the company used.
Sometimes I may start a bit above the start charge and below MAX if I have experience with loading that powder, but a new powder, new load = start charges, since I like my fingers, eyes and gun.

From the 2018 Alliant guide, I may be missing it but I didn't see the reduce 10% when I looked up a "recipe" on their web site.

 

[NMexJim]

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=189

The 9mm +P load as shown above says 3.8 grains of Sport Pistol is max for a 147 grain JHP.

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=23

9mm standard loading above says 3.6 grains of Sport Pistol is max for 147 grain JHP.

While you’re getting hot for plinking (hard on the gun), you’re ok for self defense in the Shields, but I don’t know about the SAR9.

That said, it’s recommend you read the attachment from Legal on this forum. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/the-peculiar-problem-of-handloads-in-self-defense-shootings.821474/#post-10551972

Personally, I don’t see a need for +P loading in any of my self defense factory loads. I carry Fed HST 124 grain, but there are quite a few good, factory loads available.

If you want more velocity, drop down to 124 grain. There are a lot of arguments out there supporting either weight bullet. Bullet weight X velocity / 1,000 will give you a power factor to help you decide.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=189

The 9mm +P load as shown above says 3.8 grains of Sport Pistol is max for a 147 grain JHP.

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=23

9mm standard loading above says 3.6 grains of Sport Pistol is max for 147 grain JHP.

While you’re getting hot for plinking (hard on the gun), you’re ok for self defense in the Shields, but I don’t know about the SAR9.

That said, it’s recommend you read the attachment from Legal on this forum. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-self-defense-shootings.821474/#post-10551972

Personally, I don’t see a need for +P loading in any of my self defense factory loads. I carry Fed HST 124 grain, but there are quite a few good, factory loads available.

If you want more velocity, drop down to 124 grain. There are a lot of arguments out there supporting either weight bullet. Bullet weight X velocity / 1,000 will give you a power factor to help you decide.

Side note: every time I see that caveat post of Spats’, I have to wonder, is he really Bill Handel?

 

[rhartman911]

Remember Alliant just lists MAX charges.
For a start charge with their data normal is to reduce by 10%.
You should always work up to MAX charges as your MAX may be lower than what they listed.
(different case, primer, gun, lot of powder etc)

As mentioned a heavier bullet takes up more space in the case so less case cap, also a heavier bullet is harder to get moving and starts moving slower so less space for the powder to expand as the bullet starts moving.

I did not know that Alliant listed the max Thank you for the Information. I just read Aliant load data for 147 Gr JHP was 3.6 it did not say Max. The site was called
Alliant sports Powder Recipe --
9mm Luger 147 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol (3.6 ) 894

 

[rhartman911]

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=189

The 9mm +P load as shown above says 3.8 grains of Sport Pistol is max for a 147 grain JHP.

https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=42&cartridge=23

9mm standard loading above says 3.6 grains of Sport Pistol is max for 147 grain JHP.

While you’re getting hot for plinking (hard on the gun), you’re ok for self defense in the Shields, but I don’t know about the SAR9.

That said, it’s recommend you read the attachment from Legal on this forum. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-self-defense-shootings.821474/#post-10551972

Personally, I don’t see a need for +P loading in any of my self defense factory loads. I carry Fed HST 124 grain, but there are quite a few good, factory loads available.


If you want more velocity, drop down to 124 grain. There are a lot of arguments out there supporting either weight bullet. Bullet weight X velocity / 1,000 will give you a power factor to help you decide.

Thank you that's exactly what I read on their data loads. The SARS 9mm is a very well made gun . The Turkish make it its a cross breed between a H&K lower and a Glock Upper

 

[Soonerpesek]

I did not know that Alliant listed the max Thank you for the Information.

As a general point of information, any data that lists only 1 charge is 99% the MAX charge.
As stated before, reduce this data by 10% to start.
I also would not go below said 10% for chance of a squib.

 

[Soonerpesek]

Alliant sports Powder Recipe --

I'm not sure that it is still offered, but Alliant had a free load data book for their powders that you could get off the website.
I signed up for 1 last spring, it took about 8 weeks to receive it.

 

[rhartman911]

Welcome Aboard !

Friend, what you're picking is "mid-range" for the lab's gun.... which you don't own. In fact, other than caliber, your gun is not even remotely similar. All you can hope to do with a recipe from a manual is get close enough to not blow yourself up. This is why we ALWAYS begin at the Starting Load.

Please compare this lab gun to your's for if you think I'm kidding....
View attachment 999503

Thank you this is why I have posted the question definitely I don't want to go boom with it - The Alliant sports pistol data said it was 3.6 gr for 147 grain JHP and does not mention that is the Max another person who responded down below has the same data . The Site was called- Alliant sports pistol recipes

 

[NMexJim]

I did not know that Alliant listed the max Thank you for the Information. I just read Aliant load data for 147 Gr JHP was 3.6 it did not say Max. The site was called
Alliant sports Powder Recipe --
9mm Luger 147 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol (3.6 ) 894

Yep.

BTW, if you haven’t already, I would recommend that you download the Alliant catalog. It’s free.

As you’ve seen, if you look under 9mm in the catalog, you will find the same info as I gave above under “Max Chg”. For some reason, several powder manufacturers abbreviate the info loaded directly from a particular powder page in this case Sports Powder. I find that catalogs will give better information in general plus all the fine print is included. It’s good to read fine print.

I don’t have any direct experience with Sports Pistol however I’ve used Alliant in the form of Red Dot, Blue Dot, Unique, and Power Pistol. All are extruded powders and not quite as sensitive to error like ball powders. Not a bad thing if you’re real new to handgun reloading.

 

[higgite]

There has been a lot of talk about Alliant not saying to reduce their recommended loads by 10% to start. If you go to Alliant’s home page and click on “Reloader’s Guide”, you will see a page with the heading in bold red letters ”WARNING”. If you read that page, you will see in bold letters:

“REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.

DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE.”

Below that you will see a link labeled “Enter the Guide”.

Always start at the beginning.

 

[Dudedog]

I did not know that Alliant listed the max Thank you for the Information. I just read Aliant load data for 147 Gr JHP was 3.6 it did not say Max. The site was called
Alliant sports Powder Recipe --
9mm Luger 147 gr JHP Federal 1.12 4 Fed 100 Sport Pistol (3.6 ) 894

Your welcome. Sorry if I sounded "preachy" I just want you to have a safe and fun reloading journey.