Newbie Scratching His Head

[NavArch]

Today, I got a long-term loan of a friend's reloading equipment. We went to shop down the road where I picked up the RCBS carbide 3-die set for .40S&W. My friend had to leave before I got thru the setup instructions. Two points in them have me puzzled.
1. The sizing die also de-caps. OK, but I thought you needed to de-cap and then clean up the brass before re-sizing so as to not get a case stuck in the sizing die. Mr. Chicken, meet Mr. Egg.
2. The taper crimp section tells how to initially estimate the correct position, saying "Run the reloaded cartridge back into the seater die and check the crimp. If more crimp is desired, adjust the seater die down about 1/8th of a turn at a time. After you are satisfied with the crimp, set the large lock nut and run the completed cartidge into the seater die....."

Please explain "if more crimp is desired" and "satisfied with the crimp". Without numbers, this sounds pretty subjective.

 

[DogBonz]

OK first off

Mr. Chicken is a Rooster...

No, with carbide dies you don't need to clean the cases first. The junk on them actually acts as lubricant. If you clean them first, then you may have to lube them.

 

[highlander 5]

You can do either but with carbide dies you shouldn't get a stuck case. As to crimp my method is this size a case then take the case run it to the top of the ram stroke screw in the die until it is stopped by the case then lower the ram and turn it down 1/8 of a turn and lock the die ring. Another method is to use the barrel as a guide. Remove the barrel from the pistol and drop in your fully assembled round in the chamber if you have enough crimp you'll hear a "thunk" as the case is dropped into the the chamber. I find the first method the best way to set your die.BTW you don't need to lube pistol cases when using a carbide die

 

[redneck2]

FWIW....I use a vibrator cleaner for all my cases before I reload. Just dump the empties in and let 'em run an hour or two. Use polish and the cases will load a lot easier and stay shiny longer. On larger cases like .44 mag and 45LC you can really tell a difference between clean and dirty cases.

I de-cap and resize after cleaning.

Read the "sticky" at the top of this forum if you haven't already.

YMMV

 

[Steve in PA]

Clean before you resize, even with a carbide die. Stuff can get embedded on the brass and scratch the die.

You do not have to lube with carbide dies, I've been reloading for right around 15 years and never, ever lube any case that uses carbide dies. The whole idea behind carbide dies is the need to NOT having to lube the cases.

And as far as the "junk" lubing the brass, I have no idea where this bit of information or the part about needing to lube came from, but the information is wrong.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

NavArch,

Your answers in context below.

"Today, I got a long-term loan of a friend's reloading equipment. We went to shop down the road where I picked up the RCBS carbide 3-die set for .40S&W. My friend had to leave before I got thru the setup instructions. Two points in them have me puzzled."

Nice of him to do that.


"1. The sizing die also de-caps. OK, but I thought you needed to de-cap and then clean up the brass before re-sizing so as to not get a case stuck in the sizing die. Mr. Chicken, meet Mr. Egg."

Generally speaking, when people decap before cleaning the brass, they use a universal decapper (no sizer with a universal decapper, just decapping) and they generally do this for rifle cases, though some do it for pistol as well. But you don't have to for pistol and to be honest, you won't gain any accuracy at pistol ranges that make decapping before cleaning worth while.

"2. The taper crimp section tells how to initially estimate the correct position, saying "Run the reloaded cartridge back into the seater die and check the crimp. If more crimp is desired, adjust the seater die down about 1/8th of a turn at a time. After you are satisfied with the crimp, set the large lock nut and run the completed cartidge into the seater die.....

Please explain "if more crimp is desired" and "satisfied with the crimp". Without numbers, this sounds pretty subjective"

It is, in fact, pretty subjective. What you have to do is make an adjustment, insert a brass with a bullet and try it out. If you need more, add more, if you need less, take some away. It's kind of trial and experiment with guidance. That's why many folks prefer to seat bullets and crimp in separate steps. Makes things easier that way.

BTW, I wouldn't recommend putting dirty cases into your dies. You get the right kind of "dirt" on a case and you'll have a scratched carbide die. Much easier and simpler just to clean them.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Bullet]

This is how I reload 40S&W -

1 - Clean your cases

2 - Size and deprime. Carbide sizer = no lube

3 - Seat new primers (you can clean the primer pocket if you want before seating the new primers)

4 - Flare or bell case

5 - Powder

6 - Seat bullet

7 - Taper crimp (removes flare or bell only) – different die than the seating die

 

[RustyFN]

I do it the same as Bullet but for 9mm. I use the Lee four die set with the FCD. To setup the FCD I run the shell all the way into the die and then turn the die down until it touches the shell. Then I take the shell out and go another quarter turn. You can adjust more from there.
Rusty

 

[NavArch]

Thanks for the replies

I appreciate the help. This week, I'll be cleaning out a section of my basement and installing a reloading bench and improved lighting.

 

[Walkalong]

No, with carbide dies you don't need to clean the cases first. The junk on them actually acts as lubricant. If you clean them first, then you may have to lube them.

...I am pretty sure dogbonz was joking. Always clean your brass. I tumble then size/decap. I don't clean primer pockets, some do. If you want to you can use a universal decapper, clean pockets and then tumble, or tumble then size/deprime and then clean pockets. but tumble your brass. Your dies will thank you.

 

[Jim Watson]

Actually, he is right. You have to get off the grit that will score the brass, but a little soot or even surface tarnish is pretty good case lube. I tumble mine enough to get off the dirt and fouling, but not to polish it mirror bright.

Load some new or chemically cleaned brass and see how hard it sizes. Really bare brass on tungsten carbide has a pretty high coefficient of friction. It needs a light application of spray lube so as to not wear your arm out.

 

[CMcDermott]

You can use a dial caliper to measure the diameter of your crimped rounds, right at the end of the case, to keep track of how much crimp you are using. I don't reload 40 S&W, so I can't give you a desired measurement, but for my 45 ACP I setup the crimp die for .470" case neck measurement.
The measurement may change for different brands of cases (the brass case wall may vary a little in thickness) and/or different bullets (the bullets may be slightly different diameters); it's just something to keep track of to make the setup for the next reloading session easier.

 

[highlander 5]

re scratching a carbide sizing die

You CANNOT scratch a carbide die with grit,dirt or other junk,about the only thing that will scratch tungsten or titanium carbide is a diamond or borazon.( boron nitrate)
This is one of the reasons that they make carbide dies technically they don't wear out. I've been using carbide dies for my 37 years of reloading and haven't worn one out yet

 

[Idano]

Hey what kind of girlie presses are you guys using that you find it difficult to resize an unlubed pistol case in a carbide die? I am in the right forum correct , this isn't one of those manly forums is it? Granted I haven't resized a 500 S&W yet but I have 9 mm, 40 S&W, and .44 Mag with carbide and nitride dies and I have never encountered enough resistance to require lube! However, I do come from a family with long arms and our knuckles may occasionally bump on the ground when we walk.

 

[P0832177]

I tell you till I started loading the 9mm, I never considered using a bit a lube with carbide dies. People over on Brain Enos Forum use a shot of lube on case prior to running them through the Dillons. I never lubed 45ACP's running them through the Dillon. But, now I lube a 9mm every twenty or so rounds. Sure makes the flow of loading go easier.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Idano,

You are such a brute.

 

[Walkalong]

Really bare brass on tungsten carbide has a pretty high coefficient of friction.

I use Franklin brass polish in my media and it slicks up the cases so I guess I hadn't noticed.

I am a clean freak when it comes to reloading. Dirt makes me uncomfortable around my equipment and my guns.

 

[SSN Vet]

well, if you've got to be a freek....

better to be a clean freak than a dirty one

 

[NavArch]

CMcDermott's reply about using the dial caliper rang my "Duh" alarm. <notice the soft, but distinctive sound of a hand slapping a forehead> Some days I am slower than the rest of the crowd.

I had planned on tumbling the brass, 'cause shiny just sounds like a better idea.

Good reference material.

 

[SSN Vet]

This week, I'll be cleaning out a section of my basement

My wife was very happy to see that my "new hobby" motivated me to tackle the mess in the basement and wire some long needed outlets down there.

I think she's a little "less enthused" that my motivation to clean and wire sputtered out once I had my bench (desk actually) set up.

 

[GCW5]

I always clean brass, then size. I don't think it makes a difference to the carbide dies, but cases can sure get scratched up.

The best way I've found to adjust the crimp is to run a bullet down to the desired depth with the die up enough that it dosn't crimp, generally about 4 turns off the case holder on full stroke. Then adjust the seater uo 5 or 6 turns so it dosn't contact the bullet, then adjust the die to crimp to desired amount. Run your seater down till it touches the bullet (complete load in the die). rebove the load, take the seater down 1/4 turn, tighten it down, and you should be good. Check your first couple to make sure it's where you want and go. I always check 15 to 20 for feeding in the magazines and gun I'm using to make sure they function properly.

Good luck with your new hobby!

P.S. I do know that .30 carbine cases need about every 4th or 5th one lubed or they will stick in carbide dies, due to the slight taper.

 

[357mag357]

Speaking of tight brass

I find that 9mm brass is more difficult than 44Mag to resize. I use a Lee die for 9mm and RCBS for the 44Mag. Strange.:banghead:

 

[Walkalong]

I find that 9mm brass is more difficult than 44Mag to resize

The 9 MM is a tapered case and many sizers for 9mm have a longer carbide ring which means more area and more friction. The Redding dies are exspensive, but they are smoother by a bit.

Welcome to THR

 

[357mag357]

Thanks WalkaLong.