NFL player shot by off-duty police officer

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"an idiot cop assassin"

Huh? Maybe he should have just let the guy keep driving erratically?

""weaving in lanes, traveling at speeds of between 30 and 90 mph and nearly colliding with several other vehicles on the highway.""

I see they arrested the woman who drove the car at him.

http://cbs5.com/national/topstories_story_246183117.html

Edited to add a quote from the PD statement in warning shot thread in L&P.

"It should be noted that during the course of this incident the officer established radio communications with allied law enforcement agencies."
 
in my assumption the "unmarked car" was his personal vehicle or else he would have had radio com. also the vehicle if an unmarked would have been equiped with emergency lighting hence he would not have had the need to flash a badge to get the player to pull over.

the cop was an idiot, twenty miles out of jurisdiction? if this had been ligit he should have called the jurisdiction where he was and reported the driver and only initiated a stop at the request of the department that holds jurisdiction.

myself i am labeling this as a road rage case that should be prosecuted just like any other, regardless of the occupations of either.
 
Basically, all the facts presented are one officer's word on what happened. We really don't know anything yet except that the NFL guy got shot. Beyond that, this might end up as one guy's word against another's. Hard to say how that will go.
 
I did not say he WAS an idiot cop assassin, I stated that someone there was an idiot, and who exactly it was was not clear yet (could be all parties involved). Somebody else came up with the assassin angle, among many other guesses as to what really happenend durring this squirly encounter. I was trying to point out that we do not have all the facts yet, and we should wait before condeming anyone involved.

I swear that some people here don't read nor understand whole posts before going off and shooting from the hip. Slow down and CONCENTRATE.
 
I'd love to hear the cops and cop worshippers who thought the Carlson/Beitko incident was murder, explain how this one wasn't attempted murder.
 
I'd love to hear the cops and cop worshippers who thought the Carlson/Beitko incident was murder, explain how this one wasn't attempted murder.
Click to expand...

I stick by Carlson in the other thread/issue, but I can tell you that if the NFL guy reached into his pocket while a man with a gun had the draw on him and that man identified himself as a police officer, I highly doubt that this will go down as attempted murder.
 
One thought

Something that is real important to remember is that the story as it was initially reported may not be completely factual. In our neck of the woods, I've seen it many times where the local newspapers don't get the facts straight. I've been on calls and been involved in investigations where the story in the newspapers later had nothing much to do with the truth. :fire: Intentional? Maybe not, but did it make something legit look really fishy? Yup. I have to agree, though, the warning shot(s) thing is REAL BAD. If everything else about this turns out to be justified, the officer will most likely have to face some administrative music for the warning shots. I don't think warning shots are condoned or tolerated ANYWHERE these days!:cuss:

From what I can tell from the story as I"ve heard it so far, it sounds like a cop making some bad decisions. I don't think he should have tried to make contact himself, and the warning shots are going to be a problem. As for being justified in actually shooting Foley, I guess that remains to be seen.

It'll be interesting to see the fallout from this one. :scrutiny:
 
"I did not say he WAS an idiot cop assassin"

"I swear that some people here don't read nor understand whole posts before going off and shooting from the hip. Slow down and CONCENTRATE."

And I didn't say you said he WAS - I simply cut-and-pasted what you wrote. Now who's shooting from the lip? Back at you.

John
 
Shooting

I think this will work out for everyone and here is how: The bad cop gets fired or, better yet, get thrown in jail where he belongs and the aging football player without life threatening injuries sues and never has to work again. I am glad there was no bystanders hurt.
 
Basically, all the facts presented are one officer's word on what happened. We really don't know anything yet except that the NFL guy got shot. Beyond that, this might end up as one guy's word against another's. Hard to say how that will go.
Click to expand...
Basically, what we have here is two people, BOTH of whose word I would mistrust by instinct and observation.

I'd bet money that BOTH of them will turn out to be lying to some extent.

When it comes down to OJ versus Mark Fuhrman, why would you believe EITHER one?
 
update from San Diego Union Tribune

A few interesting quotes to chew on (with emphasis added), from today's paper:

Full article: http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20060905-9999-7m5foley.html

Sheriff's homicide Lt. Dennis Brugos said the officer, who has not been identified, was on his way home from work when he spotted Foley's car. The officer was not wearing a uniform and was driving an unmarked black Mazda sedan.
Click to expand...

So the officer was driving his personal vehicle, which we can assume didn't have lights, unless Coronado PD is now using Mazda sedans for their undercover operations...

After seeing the Oldsmobile nearly sideswipe other cars, Brugos said the officer called for backup as he followed Foley on state Route 163 near Route 52.
Click to expand...

The [third attempted] stop took place on a cul-de-sac near Foley's home on Travertine Court. The officer got out of the car, said his gun was real, and fired a warning shot into some bushes against an embankment at the end of the cul-de-sac, according to the Sheriff's Department.

[Female passenger] Gaut, now behind the wheel, reportedly drove straight at the officer, who fired two shots. One hit the Oldsmobile's windshield on the passenger side and the other hit the car's radiator, according to neighbors who saw the car afterward. Gaut was uninjured.

Foley then came toward the officer and “made a reaching move toward his pants or waistband,” Brugos said. The officer fired at Foley several times before he fell.

Brugos said yesterday he couldn't disclose how many shots were fired while the investigation was ongoing.
Click to expand...

Would the passenger driving at the officer justify the shoot under California law? What if the shooter had a CCW and not a badge?

Within seconds, it seemed, the street was flooded with a dozen or more police cars, Goldman said.
Click to expand...

No marked units arrived until shots were fired. But if they truly showed up "within seconds", that would suggest the officer had previously radioed for back-up. It will be interesting to see the transcript of the dispatch tapes with timestamp for this call.

Some of Foley's neighbors were skeptical of versions of the shooting they heard and read in news reports.

“I want to hear his side,” Jennings said. “All we've heard so far is the police side.”

Jennings said Foley was a model neighbor who lived quietly.
Click to expand...

Responding to rumors that Foley might have believed he was being carjacked, Foley's agent, David Levine, said, “It sure sounds like it. . . . The circumstances would seem to coincide with somebody not thinking he was dealing with a police officer.”

Brugos said he didn't know whether the officer showed his badge when identifying himself to Foley.

Everett Bobbitt, the attorney who will be representing the officer, said, “There's no legal requirement” that a badge be shown when an off-duty officer is pulling over a motorist.
Click to expand...

Then how can a citizen quickly determine the legitimacy of a traffic stop vs. carjacking/robbery? Sounds like a crazy policy to me.

Bobbitt would not comment on the badge, but he said an officer who feels the need to use his weapon can't show his badge at the same time.

“If you're holding your gun, you're not going to do that, because the proper way to hold a gun is with two hands,” [Attorney] Bobbitt said.

As for firing a warning shot, Bobbitt and Brugos said they didn't think it was specifically prohibited.

“Generally, you're not going to (fire a warning shot), but you've got to be in the officer's shoes,” Bobbitt said. The investigators “will look at the whole procedure in context,” he said.

Coronado Mayor Tom Smisek said the officer who shot Foley has been put on administrative leave, “which is the normal procedure.”
Click to expand...

I predict this incident gets more convoluted as several versions of 'the truth' emerge.
 
Team officials placed Foley on injured reserve and said that because his injuries weren't related to playing football, he will forfeit his $775,000 salary for this season.
Click to expand...

One thing is for sure: Foley will be suing.
 
I don't know about San Diego, but Los Angeles and surrounding areas have had a few cases of police impersonators pulling folks over. In one case about two weeks ago, the person being pulled was a detective who got suspicious and started asking questions. The impersonator quickly jumped in his car and drove off.

So to put the whole incident in context, I can see how it's possible he believed he was being stalked/robbed/etc.

Would the passenger driving at the officer justify the shoot under California law? What if the shooter had a CCW and not a badge?
Click to expand...

Yes for a LEO, although one case last year where a 13 year old car thief was shot caused LAPD to change their policy to encourage officers to "get out of the way" if possible. In the context of this incident, it would not be legal for a CCW holder because he/she would have no business pursuing and pulling over a motorist. The felony arrest thing doesn't hold water here if you're not a LEO.
 
Second Person Account from Glock Talk

Quote from Glock Talk:


I heard the whole thing on the radio (the off duty officer was communicating the entire time using his 800MHz radio), but I wasn't there and I am not a witness.

If I were off-duty, I would have called in the DUI car and kept driving home. I would not have followed the suspect vehicle. It is not worth the trouble. Now the Officer is going to be sued by high power attorneys (my speculation).

Reverse roles: If I were driving down the road, I wouldn't stop for a plain clothes person in an unmarked Mazda. I don't care if he was waiving a badge and a gun. You want to stop me, get a marked unit with a uniformed officer.

Now the Off Duty Officer did try to get a marked unit. The ODO waited for what seemed to be 15 minutes (not exactly sure on the time). At first there were no CHP units available for the North Bound 163. Then a CHP unit was enroute but 7 or so miles behind the action and tried to catch up. The they pulled off the freeway and the dispatcher started a San Diego Police Unit and cancelled CHP. Then they went into Poway (contract patrol for SDSO) and the dispatcher started a Sheriff Unit. The ODO got handed off to 3 different agencies which I think is BS (CHP should have continued).

After hearing the radio and reading the article, it appeared there were two different confrontations where the suspect got out of his vehicle. One was in or near Poway city limits, the other was near the suspect's home in Poway.

My speculation is the officer was new. He followed the DUI and would not quit, even after being confronted. He cornered his prey at his residence and forced the suspect to act (remember, no marked units or uniforms were on-scene yet).

Was it worth it?


Re warning shot: I heard scuttlebutt that the suspect thought the gun was a toy. Thus the first shot was a warning shot (the article does say one shot into the bushes and two into the air).
 
How many here would stop for a guy who pulls up alongside you on the freeway at 3AM in a Mazda, rolls down his window and yells, "I'm a cop, pull over!" I sure as hell wouldn't, and I'm not driving a custom muscle car and carrying a thick roll of 100 dolar bills. Then he shows you a gun. How many here would have shot him as soon as he displayed a weapon? If unarmed, how many of you would try to run him down (or make him get out of the way so you could escape) once he got out of his car after following you for 30 miles?

I can see myself doing either of these things, and both could be legally justified, especially if the guy turned out not to be a cop.

How many here, cops now, would not shoot if someone tried to run them over? Damned few, I suspect, and rightly so. But how many of you would have worked this scenario the way this guy did?

Officer whatever-his-name is is lucky that NFL guy didn't have a CCW permit. They're tough to get in SD County, but I bet "I'm a Charger" works as a "Statement of Need." Football guy's lucky to be alive. I bet he sues, I bet he wins, and he probably should. Stupidity should be punished. Even if you're a cop.

--Shannon
 
One question is nagging at me: If Mr. NFL was driving erratically and "weaving in lanes, traveling at speeds of between 30 and 90 mph and nearly colliding with several other vehicles on the highway", as the off-duty officer contends, shouldn't there be multiple 911 calls from motorists reporting being "nearly sideswiped" by a rather distinctive-sounding purple on purple custom car?

Why haven't any other witnesses come forward? :confused:
 
Yeah, not quite sure why the off-duty officer followed this guy for 30 minutes AND confronted him. If I'm off-duty, unless it's an immediate problem (like a shootout at the gas station/walmart/etc) then I'm calling in the on-duty guys. I might follow, but good grief, I'm sure not confronting the guy in my personal car and without a uniform.

That being said, if the officer was within his authority (which he would be in TN, as would any citizen) and this huge guy came at him reaching into his pants, AFTER the driver in the car tried to run him over (read "deadly force") then I can see why this guy was in fear of his life.

While stupid and lacking in judgement, the actions of the officer might have been technically ok. We'll see when more info is made available.

(Did I mention that even if the officer is found to be innocent of any crime, he's still a moron with poor judgement?)
 
new details about this incident...

I've heard new media reports that may shed some light on some of the posts made here;

The sworn LEO was off-duty
The subject was near his home when the traffic stop went down.
The LEO was from Coranado CA PD. Coranado(maybe spelling error, ;) ) CA is near the US Navy bases and not a big LE agency.

I still do not understand the actions of the off duty cop but I'm sure the FBI/US DoJ and his department will review the entire incident.

I also agree that this subject will sue the off duty LEO, the Coranado CA police dept, the city and everyone involved.

Rusty
:cool:
 
Brugos said he didn't know whether the officer showed his badge when identifying himself to Foley.
Everett Bobbitt, the attorney who will be representing the officer, said, “There's no legal requirement” that a badge be shown when an off-duty officer is pulling over a motorist.
Click to expand...

Wow, someone tell me that’s a mistake…all sorts of stupid in that one.
Bobbitt would not comment on the badge, but he said an officer who feels the need to use his weapon can't show his badge at the same time.
“If you're holding your gun, you're not going to do that, because the proper way to hold a gun is with two hands,” Bobbitt said.
Click to expand...
Why would you be pointing your gun when ID’ing yourself at a freakin stoplight?

I’m really not sure Foley believed he was dealing with an officer of the law, and I’m not sure the officer in question did much to convince him. Bad stuff for both parties.
 
""weaving in lanes, traveling at speeds of between 30 and 90 mph and nearly colliding with several other vehicles on the highway.""
Click to expand...

That's a perfect description of how people drive when they are being chased.
 
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