Night vision

[redneck2]

looking to get something for night vision. Haven’t gotten the wife onboard for a rifle scope yet. Thinking maybe some like the Leupold. https://www.brownells.com/optics-mo...y&utm_campaign=itwine&utm_content=100-034-087

Wondering who has experience and why one would be better than another. I’ve always been impressed with Leupold but open to other ideas

FWIW...I looked on YouTube. The ATN rifle scope looks really good, but the price point is steeper than I’m looking at right now. I watched one review on the Leupold listed above. Not sure about the performance. Looked marginal to me

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Okay, Leupold is a fine company, but this isn't a fine product by that company. The question is, what do you want to do with the scope? At 240 resolution, you are going to have blurry and blobular images for most anything not up close. That isn't to say that this is a useless tool, only that its application could potentially be very limited depending on what you want to do with it. If you are wanting it to help with finding Fifi in your back yard or to do building inspections where you look for poor insulation and electrical hot spots, this will be super handy. If you are hoping to identify critters at 200 yards before putting a stalk in them, you are going to have to mentally work very hard to accomplish the task. You need something to help look for downed animals that ran after being shot, this will be very helpful.

ATN looks good when it works, but ATN has the worst customer service reputation in the NV/Thermal business. Maybe they take care of you. Maybe they don't.

 

[redneck2]

The YouTube stuff on ATN looked pretty good, but you never know what the poster has for an agenda. I’ve only communicated with one owner of ATN. His feedback was positive, but I assume he hasn’t had issues. That’s the problem with a sample size of one.

Anyway, as for use, it would be nice for identifying game animals, and to check our five acres for both two and four legged intruders. My ultimate goal would be to hunt at night, but obviously that would require a NV scope. Not sure that I’m there yet, still in the investigation stage.

Appreciate the input.

 

[taliv]

Look for some old threads by Derek and myself.

short story is put the nv on your hat not your gun. Practically being able to walk around at night hands free without pointing a rifle at anything is way way more important.

Pvs14 gen3 is the usual entry point. You can get something around $1000 if you look.
Military j arm mounts are practically free. Because they stink. But you can live with them if you’re on a budget. Wilcox and norotos are much better but kinda pricey.

next put an IR laser on your rifle

and a trijicon RMR on your pistol

 

[12Bravo20]

The PVS5 was barely usable and the PVS7 was an improvement. The PVS14 is definitely better than the two earlier generations. I have used the PVS5 and PVS7 quite a bit while in the Army for everything from night maneuvers on foot to driving and shooting weapons. I have to agree that night vision mounted to a head mount or helmet mount will be better.

 

[jmorris]

I have only 2 questions.

What do you want to do with it and how much do you want to spend? Your search will be dramatically reduced by the answer.

 

[taliv]

Eh for many things that’s true but for NV I’d say 99% of the time someone is asking about their first tube, the answer is pretty much the same. Sure you’ll have guys who just want a rifle scope but it’s pretty silly and I’d always steer someone away from a scope being their only nv.
And pvs7 are so old And pvs14 so cheap that I wouldn’t ever recommend a 7 over a 14. And I wouldn’t recommend anything cheaper than a 14 unless your budget is literally low 3 digits and at that point you’re looking at toys mounted on air soft gear.

so the only time budget comes in is if you want to come out of the gate spending $6000+ on binos instead of a monocular.

Besides the pvs14 will run $1000-4000 depending on tube selection. That accommodates a reasonably wide range of budgets. Almost everyone starts there and if they get addicted and go up to binos they’ll still want the pvs14 for their wife or friend or kid to wear while they’re out together. heck at one point I had 3 different pairs of binos (anvis9 5050 and bnvs)

 

[redneck2]

Hey Taliv.....at one time you posted a picture of one of your rifles with (I assume) the NV mounted ahead of a scope and I believe a IR illuminator on the side. IIRC, nice set up

As you said, the price of what you suggested ranges anywhere from $1,000-$4,000. I assume the higher price ones are more expensive for a reason, but not sure what that is, and how much difference it would make. It’s not a survival item for me, more a toy that will get use occasionally. If I could have a monocular for use with a scope that would be awesome

 

[taliv]

This thread has some pics of clip on nv for magnified rifle scopes
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/long-distance-night-shoots.664418/#post-8230798

I can’t find my pics of the monocular and binos. I’ll try when I get home later.

the point of the 1-4K range was a monocular that looks the same from the outside but the quality of tubes inside varies greatly. Gen3, filmless, white phosphorus etc. and they all come with data sheets where they measure resolution (the line pairs per inch), signal to noise and ebi etc which can be wildly different.

a gen3 used is usable. But spending 2,3,4 grand will be like going from vhs to dvd to blueray etc

 

[taliv]

The ones above I mentioned are zero magnification. You can put them behind a magnified optic but it will screw with your eye relief. Definitely suboptimal.

the clip ons that support magnification are in that thread I linked but they’re expensive. Used to be more like 8-12k but you can get them now in the 3-6k range. That’s for 15 yo tech. Modern stuff is super expensive (like 60k haha). Or you can go digital for a few hundred but it’s pretty crappy.

 

[taliv]

Found the bino pics

 

[juniorz525]

redneck2, some thermal binoculars can cost the same price as night vision ones, but as you know - thermal are much "stronger" than night vision type. So, in my case I would definitely try the thermal one. And for updating the info - it all depends on a price, but if I would choose a real quality product, I would make it on this website ( here: https://www.agmglobalvision.com/thermal-imaging/thermal-binoculars ), and definitely would purchase model AGM EXPLORATOR FSB50-640, cause I've been testing it in different conditions and it's awesome.

 

[taliv]

stronger?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

redneck2, some thermal binoculars can cost the same price as night vision ones, but as you know - thermal are much "stronger" than night vision type. So, in my case I would definitely try the thermal one.

I am not currently familiar with any thermal binoculars being made and sold in the civilian market. There are some bioculars that are sold as binoculars, but they are not binoculars.

The difference is that binoculars have an objective lens for each eye and gives you actual binocular vision. Bioculars have only one objective lens and so you get two of the exact same image and so do not have binocular vision. Somehow Pulsar, ATN, Armasight (discontinued), Dali, and N-Vision. are getting away with calling them binoculars and that is just plain wrong. ATN even goes so far as to disguise the biocular design as a binocular by having what appear to be two sets of objective lenses when in fact, one side houses a rangefinder and the other side houses the objective lens and thermal core, but it looks a lot like a traditional binocular housing.

For thermals to have binocular vision, you would need two objective lenses and two thermal cores. The lenses and the cores are the bulk of the cost of thermal scopes. Lenses can be as much as half of the cost because they are made with rare earth materials, such as germanium. The thermal core or sensor will make up a large part of the cost of the electronics.