Ideas on atn night vision scope?

[Tommygunn]

In a mail order (also internet) catalog I came across an advert for a night vision scope called the ATN X Sight 5-18X Digital Night Vision Rifle Scope.
It gives some specs:
·Low light HD sensor shows reticle with high light gain.
·5 reticle and 5 color options.
·Has WiFi to transfer photos&video to home PC.
·HD 1080p ATN L130 sensor.
·GPS and E-compass function, 67mm eye relief ..... and some other goodie functions.

This is something I might like to get for my carbine.
My question is; Is ATN a reliable company, do they make reliable rugged products.
I don't care if it isn't "the best, the greatest." I don't need it to literally turn night into day, per se, but it would be nice to have a decently usable picture, and a device that can take maybe a few thumps and bumps and still work. I'm not planning on torture tests or throwing it off a cliff.
I just want to avoid something that looks pretty but works once and then goes AWOL to fritz-vill.
Any suggestions?

 

[Txhillbilly]

ATN has several software problems with the X-Sight right now. I have looked through one at a local dealer,and if/when they get the bugs worked out I'll be buying the 3-12 version.
It does need to have an external power port,it won't last very long on 4 AA batteries unless you turn all of the un-needed things off at night.
The Pulsar 750 has an external power pack,and it last about 8 hrs on night vision,but the clarity of the X-Sight is a whole lot better.

Hopefully ATN will have all the problems fixed in a few months.I think they have a great product with this unit,even if it is heavy as hell.

 

[Radagast]

At this point, no don't buy it. You will be beta-testing it for them.
The X Sight has a series of software problems that are being addressed slowly.The original 3-12 had a fixed focus that was out of focus, with a blurry image. The magnification is digital.
There have been issues with holding zero, the reticule moving as magnification changes, the on-board IR being inadequate for distant night shooting and a flashing interruption of the screen image.
It has potential, but is incomplete in it development. If you need a scope now and are on a limited budget, look at the Sightmark / Yukon Photon.
If you don't need it for a couple of months, then wait to see if the X Sight gets fixed, or the next upgrade of the Photon hits the shelves to schedule.

 

[Radagast]

To add, ATN had a very bad rep for service & warranty at one point, but are now under new management and seem willing to communicate with the public about the issues with the X Sight. Time will tell whether that translates into good service overall.

 

[jmorris]

I bought an ATN a few years back that I was very pleased with the image but it would not track correctly or hold zero.

If you buy one buy it from Optics Planet (most places will tell you to return to mfg for problems) and test it as soon as you get it don't wait around long enough you can't return it.

 

[Tommygunn]

OK guys, I hear you! Plans for nightsight are now on hold!


Saturday there will be a gunshow about a 5 minute drive from my home. I plan to attend and see what's there. Most likely I won't buy (gunshow =/= good prices) but hopefully I will be able to advance my knowledge of what is available in this type of product.
Thank you all!

 

[strambo]

Nightvision is one category where it is easy to spend hundreds to over $1k on nearly useless junk. I wouldn't buy anything at a gun show.

The only sure bet is a Gen 2, Gen 2+ or Gen 3 unit from a reliable maker, but that is near to over $2k. A hair over $3k gets you a PVS-14 the same as I'm issued in the military. Check out TNVC.com

You need to do a lot of research on the lower end units and know what you are getting. Some solid responses from other members on this model. I think digital technology has good potential to present a decent picture at night for a lower cost once the technology matures a bit more.

I kinda feel bad about mentioning $2k gear when what you are looking at is $500-$700...but the nature of night vision is you may waste the $5-700 on something that fails or doesn't serve the purpose you bought it for. That is why I don't have any, I can't afford what I know would make me happy.

Now, if you win the lottery, buy the GPNGV-18, it is the quad tube goggle used by Tier 1 units such as on the Bin Laden raid. I think they are only about $40k.

 

[Tommygunn]

Thanks Strambo. I won't be buying anything at the gunshow (nightvision scope that is ....maybe a gun if I find something that interests me [and I am not holding my breath there]) but it might be somewhat useful for research.
I sure cannot afford a $40,000 scope!
What I would like is something fairly decent. It doesn't have to be the latest-greatest-bestest but I don't want to buy something and have it fry a circuit the first time I pull the trigger.
I'm not in any hurry either. If it takes a week, so it takes a week, it takes six months, it takes that long. No big deal.

 

[OpticsPlanet]

Tommygunn,

If you are looking for a useable, quality night vision scope then check out the Armasight Vampire. It is Armasight CORE technology, a proprietary tube they created that is technically gen 1 but closer to gen 2 in quality. It is around $750. Armasight is an excellent company and the scope is rugged/useable. It comes with a detachable IR illuminator that can be upgraded for increased performance.

Unless you have dual purpose needs (day and night usage) or a very tight budget, digital night vision isn't worth the money at this point in time. Traditional intensifier tube systems provide a better picture, better battery life, and are reliably simple in function.

That being said, the ATN x-sight reports on here are accurate. We have seen quite a few returned to us either for issues (software mainly) or because the unit did not deliver the expected performance (ATN must have a magical marketing team). What bothered me the most is that ATN has described the X-sight as "a digital day scope with night vision mode". So it is a dual usage product that is sub-par for both categories. Traditional glass scopes are a superior daytime option and traditional night vision is a superior nighttime option.

So if all the bells/whistles/features of the X-sight interest you, then I would say wait several months at least to see if they address the well documented issues. For the price point, they definitely have an interested market share but it seems to be the people who love connecting their smart phone to any and everything, not those who are looking for useable quality optics. Which isn't to say ATN is a poor choice of a company, because the ATN THOR (thermal) is a phenomenal product.

If you are looking to spend as little as possible for a useable night time scope, the Sightmark Photon is probably the route to go.

If you want the best image for your money (under 1K) then the Armasight CORE technology is what you want. The Spark is the monocular and the Vampire is a 3x rifle scope.

-Matt S.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have owned multiple ATN scopes. Never again. Their CS is horrible.

The X-Sight is very well intentioned, promises a lot, fails to deliver. There are now hundreds of beta-tester consumers who have scopes that flicker, have trouble working well at night, have reticles that float off the screen during zoom, problems recording, and the newly revamped 3x models don't hold focus during recoil. ATN is all about promising changes and modifications to the firmware and each time new firmware comes out, some problems get resolved, but other problems result. The X-Sight eats batteries for some users, but not others. It is a proverbial Edsel right now. If they get the bugs worked out, it will be an outstanding optic.

 

[benzy2]

If you need a weapon mounted night sight for under $1000, the only options I'd consider are mil-surp cascade systems. They give Gen2+ to early Gen3 performance and are built to take the recoil. They are used, heavy, old, and whine a bit, but they are work horses meant to live unfriendly lives. Anything new production that's digital or gen1, regardless of the marketing telling you how super great their Gen1 is, would be a waste of money in my opinion. I'd love to be satisfied with a $500 new production option, but nothing I've seen so far comes close. The day you look through a good Gen3 setup is the day you quit wanting Gen1 and start finding a way to budget for something better.

 

[OpticsPlanet]

If you need a weapon mounted night sight for under $1000, the only options I'd consider are mil-surp cascade systems. They give Gen2+ to early Gen3 performance and are built to take the recoil. They are used, heavy, old, and whine a bit, but they are work horses meant to live unfriendly lives. Anything new production that's digital or gen1, regardless of the marketing telling you how super great their Gen1 is, would be a waste of money in my opinion. I'd love to be satisfied with a $500 new production option, but nothing I've seen so far comes close. The day you look through a good Gen3 setup is the day you quit wanting Gen1 and start finding a way to budget for something better.

Well I'm not sure that buying old, used "mil surp cascade" systems is really a beneficial recommendation. The amount of counterfeit and damaged NV floating around on the used market makes any purchase quite risky, not to mention night vision tubes have a finite life span.

I admit I don't know much about casacade systems so I did some quick research. I am ighly skeptical of your claim of Gen2+ quality since I have yet to see a picture that comes close.

I read a very informative thread on AR15.com by CJ7hawk who builds cascade tube systems for around $250 dollars. Putting aside that I doubt the OP is trying to build his own system, the photos of the tube quality do not match what you are claiming. I would say the image quality is better than average gen 1, but no where close to gen 2. It actually resembles CORE quality. So you can DIY for $250 or buy new production for $550.

I'm not sure what it takes to satisfy you, but if you are expecting gen 2 quality for $500 dollars then you will be waiting a long time. Maybe in 3-5 years digital will be that quality but who knows at what price. If you are looking for useable night vision, new production, in the $500-$800 range then the CORE is the best route.

While CORE does not contain a micro channel plate (and so by definition lands in the Gen 1 category) that is where the parallels end. Instead of glass, CORE tubes use a specially formulated ceramic compound fused with metal alloys similar to those used in production of Gen 2 and Gen 3 image intensiffier tubes. No other gen 1 product, digital product, or "mil surp cascade" can make that claim.

Also, Armasight has great customer service. So since the OP is looking for something reliable, that is a buying factor compared to a DIY/used system where you will get no support.

We agree that night vision marketing does a poor job of presenting realistic performance expectations. That is why our department posts so passionately about night vision products. We also agree that once you start using and testing NV, you realize that nothing compares to gen 3 and if you can find a way to budget it then it is the best route to go.

However, just like not everyone needs or can afford an Aimpoint or ACOG, not everyone needs or can afford gen 3 night vision. I have both a gen 3 monocular and the CORE monocular. they are vastly different in quality. but they are both useable. If I go out at night with a friend, we are both able to navigate/function even though the image quality is miles apart and while most of my friends can't afford gen 3 night vision, they could afford a CORE unit.

Really, anyone looking for night vision under 1k should consider all the options and weigh them against their needs. As much as we don't like digital night vision here, there is a market out there for the product and some of the digital is quite useable (although I'm not sure if the x-sight counts yet...so far the sightmark photon and armasight drone are all I'm willing to advise as useable).


To get back to the OP....if you truly aren't in a rush like you said, then I'd wait at least a bit. See if ATN updates solve their problems. I still think the x-sight has too many features packed into it. It isn't really a night vision scope. Even ATN describes it as a digital day scope with night mode...

So as I said, if you are looking for a KISS useable quality NV scope then Armasight CORE is probably the best bang for your buck. If you were going digital under 1K, the sightmark photon is a better choice than the ATN in my opinion. The Armasight Drone is probably the best digital out there currently but it has the price tag to match. I wouldn't buy used night vision regardless of the generation.

-Matt S.