No "center of mass" for this shooter ...

[Kleanbore]

Only in a liberal city can you miss twice and get promoted for it.

I think she was promoted for stopping the robbery after firing in accordance with her training and hitting the robber under very adverse circumstances.

How may times would you hit and how many times would you miss--in a gunfight,when someone is already shooting at you from a distance of four yards? What should one expect from a trained police officer?

Over a period of years, NYPD officers involved in gunfights hit their targets about 15 percent of the time. For Miami-Dade, the percentage has also been about 15; note that it was later determined that a number of the suspects were unarmed--they had not been shooting .44 Magnums inside a beauty salon. Over a period of years, the District of Columbia Police fired 2,500 rounds in the line of duty an hit 157 suspects; the hit ratio is unavailable. Hit ratios for Baltimore County and Portland Oregon are higher but are still under 50%.

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf

Officer Jones fired twice, and hit the suspect once and missed once. That's 50%.

I hope I would do as well under such a circumstance.

 

[7.62 Nato]

Ever see an armed badguy silouette target ? The gun isn't usually far from COM. I doubt the BG was using a proper stance aligning the sights for aimed fire. She got lucky shooting the gun from his hands. Sometimes lucky is good enough.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Wasn't there a football coach that said "I'd rather be lucky than good"? I think I would too in a gunfight.

 

[Old Shooter]

I've never tried to land an airplane, and I don't want to.

I've never been in a gunfight, and I don't want to.

Of the two items mentioned above I don't know which one of them I would be better at, and I don't want to find out.

Congrats for her actions in this situation and having all her stars aligned at the same time. Hope she makes a bundle on the talk show circuit, she deserves it.

 

[Silvanus]

It surprises me how many people keep saying she missed all her shots! If the attacker was pointing a gun at her (direction), his shooting hand(s) were most likely at COM level, so she hit what she aimed for. If he was stading there with his arms outstretched like Jesus on a cross you could call a shot to the hand a miss, but otherwise...


Anyway, does it even matter? She stopped the threat without getting killed, so it's a win for the good guys (and girls ) in my book.

 

[KSgunnut]

Well, I do have to give her props for having the courage to get into the fight and protect the innocent people in the salon. However, it was definately not good shooting. The article in the New York Tmes stated that she emptied her five shot revolver, yet it only accounts for the two shots that hit the gun and the lock. Where did the other three shots go??? She's lucky they didn't go into any innocent bystanders.

 

[KSgunnut]

Oh, and I'm sure that this situation will be referenced by the liberal news media the next time an honest NYC cop has to shoot a bad guy in the course of his duties and they have no other angle to use to bash him.

 

[staggerlee213]

I mostly don't understand how this earns her a detective spot? But then I don't know what the standards of detective in NYC are. Is it just a pay increase or are they actually expected to have.. detective skills?

 

[1911Tuner]

I simply don't see the problem there.

She stopped an armed robbery. Nobody got killed. The bad guy went to jail.

Looks like a win-win to me.

 

[Six]

But that's wasting a good opportunity to bash the police for not being perfect.

 

[rodensouth]

It is tough to read news analysis and correctly discern anything. Bad guy got rounds that affected him, and innocent folks made it out alive. That is all that can be said with all WE know. She could have clammed up and everyone dies, is that better than POSSIBLY poor aim.

It is easy for armchairs to disparage. She could be on my team.

 

[Webbj0219]

Hey Ive heard woman are good shots. Maybe there is something to that?

 

[xXxplosive]

I read the article............it said she shot the BG in both hands and shot the handle off the door locking him in while he fired 4 shots passed her head. You can count that as 5 or 6 misses as they were exchanging gunfire...............please. Not discounting her bravery but ...........just as Jim Cerillo.

 

[ohwell]

The adrenalin rush in this type of situation is more than enough to make the best shooters miss a few shots I think she did well.

 

[Leanwolf]

I'm glad the woman officer won. My only criticism is -- in my opinion -- she gave away her tactical advantage by identifying herself as a police officer and telling the suspect to put down the gun. (According to what I've read, which doesn't necessarily mean what I read is what actually happened. )

The suspect immediately opened up on her. If he'd hit her with that first .44 Mag. round, it would have been the end of the ball game.

I do not know what the NYPD shooting policy is, but can't imagine that an off-duty NYPD officer is required to give the advantage to the bad guy by allowing him -- through the mental process of "lag time" -- to shoot at or hit the officer first before the officer can return fire.

Seems like very dangerous tactics, to me. Although retired several years, in my department, we were taught that when off duty, in a situation such as the New York situation, take the shot before the bad guy can shoot us first. We were not required to "identify" ourselves as sworn officers. That gave the bad guy the instant he needed to shoot at us first.

Just my opinion.

L.W.

 

[mountaindrew]

As someone already mentioned, if I am lining my sights on a target, than my gun is directly in beween the target and my face. a shooter shooting at my center-line could easily shoot my gun and not "miss" my center of mass. My hands would be aligned with my neck, aproximately, and only a few inches away from my heart.

So, where is the lack of marksmanship you are all complaining about?

I say good job, stopping the crime. We shoot to stop, and her shot stopped him. she did her job

 

[AJumbo]

I'm inclined to think that the officer had all of her attention focused upon the big ol' revolver in the BG's hand, and one of her bullets went where she was looking. In any case, congratulations, Detective.

 

[Bonesinium]

I agree with the above two posters. Why is it that every time something comes up where somebody didn't get a double tap to the chest do some people get up in arms about how they didn't shoot center mass, or how they panicked, are terrible shots, etc.

Here are the facts that we have.

She got shot at.
She shot at the suspect.
She was not hit.
The suspect was hit.

That is about it. You don't know where she was in relation to the shooter. What he was doing. How he was moving. If she was moving, avoiding being shot, shooting from behind cover. Hell, she could have stepped out from somewhere, been shot at 4 times, dove out of the way, done a barrel roll, popped off a shot while spinning on the parlor chair, and hit the suspect who was crouched behind a table with limited exposure.

Now I doubt that happened just as much as a doubt she was standing in a shooting stance at a suspect standing with his shoulders squared to her allowing for a perfect target.

 

[Ramman911]

Heck of a way to get a promotion though. The story may be a little cartoon'ish but it is a fun one to read

 

[1911Tuner]

she gave away her tactical advantage by identifying herself as a police officer and telling the suspect to put down the gun

It's also possible that she did that in order to shift attention...and the muzzle of the BG's gun...off the other patrons and onto her rather than simply shooting him and risking a reflex response shooting of a non-combatant. If that's the case...and I suspect that it is...she is to be lauded for bravery and fast-thinking under stress.

Bloomberg is aware that her marksmanship wasn't "stunning" and that if her shots had hit an inch wide of the mark...he wouldn't have had the opportunity to grab a photo-op to proclaim that his police officers don't shoot to kill...they shoot to disarm and contain so that no blood is shed in the apprehension of misunderstood, oppressed good boys gone wrong.

I suppose that many of us would have been happier if the after-action report had read that the BG died, gurgling and choking on his own blood after the cop had placed 3 perfect hits in his heart...but sometimes we have to take our little victories as they come.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Is this a viable strategy for foiling a robbery?

No

LOL, it isn't a viable strategy for foiling a robbery, but it worked? If it isn't viable, then how come it worked?

Probably more importantly, how do you know this was her strategy. She said she was shooting center mass. No doubt she was. Weapons and hands holding the weapons being hit during the course of such battles isn't uncommon. Chances are the gun was between the officer and the perp, just like her own. Chances are it was located in her line of fire for a center mass shot. Or, it may be that while she intended to shoot center mass, she focussed on the gun and so that is where her shot went.

Does it contradict the "shoot to stop" mindset?

yes

Once again, she stopped the shooter. Once again, she ws shooting center mass.

Will the public expect this movie-like marksmanship from other officers?

Some already do, but most people aren't that naive..... I hope.

The really naive people believe she shot the gun out of the perp's hand intentionally and that as such, her shooting strategy wasn't valid and that she wasn't shooting to stop and/or wasn't shooting center mass.

only in a liberal city...

can you miss twice and get promoted for it.

This comment reminds me of those that claims things like "John Doe arrested for self defense" and you read that John Doe successfully defended himself with a gun from an intruder, but it turns out that John Doe lived in NYC and didn't have a permit for the gun and so was arrested for possession of the non-permitted gun, not for self defense. The officer was not promoted for missing.

However, it was definately not good shooting. The article in the New York Tmes stated that she emptied her five shot revolver, yet it only accounts for the two shots that hit the gun and the lock. Where did the other three shots go??? She's lucky they didn't go into any innocent bystanders.

I always like how when a person is in a self defense shooting, people always claim the good guy got lucky for not hitting bystanders if all of the good guy's shots didn't go into the perp. Sort of reminds me of the anti-gunners who always worry about the children who could have been killed.

Questioning where the shots went to imply that she might have injured others isn't a valid critique if you don't know where the shots went yourself. For all you know, all the shots impacted quite safely within the shop.

I simply don't see the problem there.

She stopped an armed robbery. Nobody got killed. The bad guy went to jail.

Looks like a win-win to me.

Right. The officer did good and yet folks aren't happy about it. The outcome was good and that isn't good enough for them.

 

[Kleanbore]

Here are the facts that we have.

She got shot at.
She shot at the suspect.
She was not hit.
The suspect was hit.

Plus--she identified herself as an officer, she says she fired at center mass, the man fired four shots reportedly from twelve feet, and one of her shots jammed the door.

Beyond that, the reports are fuzzy and some vary. The New York Times reports that she "emptied her five shot revolver" and the Daily News reports that she fired twice.

The police investigators have both witness statements and forensic evidence. Whether more information will be made available at some point remains to be seen.

 

[pikid89]

i understand the arguement of the shots went where she looked, ie the gun in his hands, but i am quite skeptical of the "she shot the door handle off so he couldnt escape"
the article i read said he did escape as the cops found him in a hotel room a bit later

 

[M-Cameron]

Your basis for that assertion?
now ive never been to the police academy....but i can guarentee you they train them to shoot to kill......not some batman action movie gun shot out of the hand technique......

i honestly dont feel ahe did anything spectcacular.......and i really dont see why she should be promoted for it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by M-Cameron: now ive never been to the police academy....but i can guarentee you they train them to shoot to kill......

If you had attended a police academy you would not offer that erroneous guarantee.

...not some batman action movie gun shot out of the hand technique......

She said she fired as she was trained--at center mass. It is reported that the man was hit in one or more of his hands. Might it be that at the time she pulled the trigger, his hands were between Officer Jones and center mass?