No knives in the Cavalry?

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Wait a second guys.
Just got off the phone with members of this Cav unit.
Troop C DID have their knives taken. All knives and Multitools (even though they are required for working on the .50) and they have hand receipts to prove it. Higher ups in the unit (above Troop C) had not been aware of this.


"Guys, truth is, in a garritrooper situation, troops with sharp objects are likely to result in more sick call/Leavenworth lockup time than troops without sharp objects...

Remember that the average private is, well, an average private..."
Click to expand...
That might be true. But C Troop of this Cav unit has mostly veterans with prior tours of duty in the sandbox, Afganistan, and including members who earned their Ranger tabs the hard way. These guys are not allowed any form of edged weapon. They can play with their Barrett .50 caliber rifles and M2 Machine guns... but they can't have a Leatherman.
ASININE.
 
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They can play with their Barrett .50 caliber rifles and M2 Machine guns... but they can't have a Leatherman.
Click to expand...

I agree that a prohibition on any kid of knives at all is stupid. OTOH, I have to assume you are giving in to hyperbole with the above statement. Unless the military has changed drastically, one gets to do jolly little "playing" with any kind of weapon unless you count humping it from hither to yon sans ammo.
 
Uh, yeah.

I guess it's good that knives being confiscated would get you impassioned, BUT:

I did not get any info about this from GEORGE HILL. I got it from troopers in the 2/183rd who've had their knives taken away along with other expensive items. Many without hand receipts or item labels

It is a FACT that Capt Jones is CO of Troop C.

It is a FACT that he ordered knives and other items confiscated FROM MULTIPLE PLATOONS; ie a whole Troop.

It is a FACT that he whent ahead with this after mutliple NCOs urgently advised him not to do so.

It is a FACT that morale then plumeted in Troop C, as they took it as harsh insult.

If GEORGE HILL talked to the XO of the 183rd and HE decided to downplay the event, fine. I'll trust the enlisted men on this not the Ossifers.

If Captain Jones has since modified his initial order, that's great. I haven't yet heard of anybody getting their property back yet, so I'll wait until I have some calls returned before I get happy.

So I don't have any reason to eat any crow. Have a happy 4th.
 
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"I was going to contact the guy myself but there is no capt Jones listed in the chain of command
And the CO is a Lt Col Mercer
Gotta wonder about that too"

Yeah. Joab, you're confused. Captain Jones is a Troop comander. That's a list of Officers on the commmand staff of the 183rd, not a list of Troop comanders. A "Troop" is the cav way of saying company. There are several "Troops" in the 183rd.
 
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Having sat back and read all the posts on this thread so far, I have wondered to myself:


Did this order really forbid ALL personal knives and multi-tools? Was this order really just a case of "I dont need one, so you don't either" ...or was this just the perception from those who had to give up their knives?

Were there no other mitigating factors involved in this decision and, if so, what were those factors? What other events, if any, lead to this order being given?

I wonder because I have seen this type of order given before in my ongoing career in the military. I have seen it from view point of the rank and file...and I have seen it from the view point of the chain of command.

Usually this kind of decision was because the troops were "personalizing" their gear to the extent that uniformity was endangered. I understand that Gen Patton carried pearl gripped revolvers...he was general and it was an image thing, but were the "boys in the ranks" getting carried away with this notion? Were personal knives turning up in the ranks that were beyond what could be considered acceptable and/or overlooked in a (urban) combat environment?

Is there anyone who could answer these questions from the stand point of that particular chain of command?
 
I was incorrect, it was not the XO of Troop C that I talked to. Turns out that he is the Command Sergent Major of the 183rd. So he was either in denial like anyone would be because it makes the Cav look foolish - OR - he is so far upstairs that he wasn't aware of this situation playing out.
I've reports of Sgts and Lts going around collecting sharp and pointys from everyone.
And these guys are not greenhorn guardsmen fresh out of Boot and Highschool... many of these guys have served multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, several Rangers there too... and they can't have a knife.
I'm told that they are taking the plastic knives from chow and putting their names on and turning them in too.
For those who doubt... Why would these volunteer profesional soldiers make this stuff up? Why? Why would they lie?
They are not liars... the facts are that Captain Pussinboots Jones ordered it. Jones comes to the unit from the Navy, and rumor has it he was supply in the Navy. Smacks of the jerk Major in Heartbreak Ridge, doesn't it? I know a lot of Navy guys that are pissed about this too.
 
How come I'm not surprised. I used to carry a issued switchblade when I flew that I was to use to cut the shrouds on my chute if I had to egress. I got the ass-chewing of the century when they found my Sikes-Fairborn. My DO ranted at me for over an hour without repeating himself. luckely I am too old to get recalled for that silliness,

Military Intellegence : No such Thing
 
Creature

This happened becuase one careless E2 gave himself a NICK with a small knife while cutting tape. He wasn't screwing around or anything. He needed a simple band-aid. No real injury that would prevent him carrying on with the normal training schedule. It happened and people moved on.
Captain Jones heard about it after the fact and then issued his grand edict. A squad leader talked to CPT. J about it, informing him that the boys use knives everyday for many things.
"Well, I don't need to carry a knife so they don't either." Is what Captain Jones told him.
 
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UPDATE: Just got off the phone with a trooper there. Just ten minutes ago they all - every one of them - got their knives back.
Looks like the Command Sergeant Major I talked to straightened everything out.

Hoo-Aah!
 
In my last one-day field exercise, I had a private burn himself on a hot rifle barrel. Should I confiscate his rifle.

This may sound extremist and WAAAYY out there, but when I have soldiers who do their jobs incorrectly or unsafely, it's my job to TRAIN them. I'm SURE I read that somewhere.
 
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Yep ... get an top level NCO involved and officers below the rank of Colonel suddenly discover that the world magically changed while they weren't looking ...
 
Yep ... get an top level NCO involved and officers below the rank of Colonel suddenly discover that the world magically changed while they weren't looking ...
Click to expand...

Actually, no. There are in a sense two chains of command and the "top level
NCO" (such as a CSM I mentioned how many days ago on this thread? ;) ) is
to be an advocate for enlisted. This person is then able to take these
concerns to CDRs who can then take them back down to their officers. I can
imagine that this might have been the very thing that happened as people
bantered back and forth on THR :D

COs and NCOs alike who are not of sufficient rank are often brain-locked to
some extent to follow a particular course of action because they are afraid
of doing things on their own and getting in trouble for it. Often rather than
taking an active role in seeking advice on it, they just go with something
without question until told otherwise. Welcome to the military and the
American Army in particular.
 
soldier from the 2-183 cav with info on knife issue

Hey I am a Va guardsmen with 2-183rd Cav, 116th IBCT. I was with the cav when we were at shelby training for deployment. It is true...C troop knifes were taken. a troop (i was a troop) were allowed to keep our knifes...we also had tomahawks....

but the 183rd is ate up...we werent allowed to play contact sports or go swimming...our CO couldnt even pass the PT test. as a matter of fact probably 40% couldnt pass...mostly our line leaders. there are really outstanding guys in the cav but this unit is very ate up at times....thank god our mission is only base security in kuwait, for we werent properly trained at shelby to fight in iraq, in my opinion. training for deployment at basic with the cav seemed like basic at times. information was very poorly dispersed at times. i remember i went to the CO (of a troop) and told him i am almost afraid to deploy with such an outfit...if this **** happens in iraq, people arnt gonna make it, i told him.....lots of those guys were older soldiers ready to get out...my squad leader and team sergeant couldnt even keep up with us during training at times.....it really looked sloppy....im not with the cav now, i did what i had to do so that I wouldnt deploy to KUWAIT with them....nothin happens in kuwait neway but i bet money someone in 2-183rd will manage to get one or two soldiers killed.

SPC "Chris"

A Troop, 2-183rd Cavalry
116th Infantry Brigade Combat Team
29th Infantry Division
Virginia Army National Guard
 
It doesn't really suprise me. People don't make jokes about the Army for no reason.
 
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